Actually our MIC looks on this as a very profitable endeavor ....:eyebrows:That's shocking.
Could you kindly explain what exactly the people of Iraq had to do with 9/11? Even Saddam Hussein for that matter? No doubt on Afghanistan, that's obvious, but Iraq? Do tell. Mistakes were made yes, but that's one hell of a mistake don't you think?Please look into your tea leaves and tell us, if it had not been done and everyone stayed home in their homes, what would have been the result? Mistakes were made, but then it was a war
I'd guess that most people's lives would be better even under Sadam in Iraq then they are now. Whole swaths of professors, professionals and artists have been killed in Iraq.Please look into your tea leaves and tell us, if it had not been done and everyone stayed home in their homes, what would have been the result? Mistakes were made, but then it was a war
I've been one of the members saying that the initial reasons for the US being there were false; it wasn't about 9/11, as Bush wanted us to believe. It was about the oil, making a little for Haliburton, Monsanto, and company, and the US dollar. The fact that Saddam was a nuttbar who gassed, tortured, and oppressed his people big time was obviously a minor thing to you. Could you estimate how many of his people would have died under his rule? I doubt it.Could you kindly explain what exactly the people of Iraq had to do with 9/11? Even Saddam Hussein for that matter? No doubt on Afghanistan, that's obvious, but Iraq? Do tell. Mistakes were made yes, but that's one hell of a mistake don't you think?
As opposed to the whole swaths of professors, professionals and artists (I'll add intellectuals, just for S&G's) who were thrown into the jails or worse under his reign.I'd guess that most people's lives would be better even under Sadam in Iraq then they are now. Whole swaths of professors, professionals and artists have been killed in Iraq.
Afghanistan would probably be about the same, a bit more Taliban, but again fewer killed.
And in the US?
Maybe a little less paranoia, probably a little less 'terrorist' threats as well.
I believe that you are clever enough to understand that there were more than two choices, 1) do nothing and 2) invade Iraq and Afghanistan and stay there for 10 years.Please look into your tea leaves and tell us, if it had not been done and everyone stayed home in their homes, what would have been the result? Mistakes were made, but then it was a war
It was not a minor thing to americans, it was nothing, for all the years that he had the support of the USA and Europe for that matter. Remember who provided the chemicals for the poison (WMD) gas?I've been one of the members saying that the initial reasons for the US being there were false; it wasn't about 9/11, as Bush wanted us to believe. It was about the oil, making a little for Haliburton, Monsanto, and company, and the US dollar. The fact that Saddam was a nuttbar who gassed, tortured, and oppressed his people big time was obviously a minor thing to you. Could you estimate how many of his people would have died under his rule? I doubt it.
But the initial post was about the death and money spent, because of the two wars.I believe that you are clever enough to understand that there were more than two choices, 1) do nothing and 2) invade Iraq and Afghanistan and stay there for 10 years.
It was not a minor thing to americans, it was nothing, for all the years that he had the support of the USA and Europe for that matter. Remember who provided the chemicals for the poison (WMD) gas?
There may be clouds, but they are not in my mind, not today, anyway.But the initial post was about the death and money spent, because of the two wars.
Tell us what your other options would be. Your mind is too clouded to read from 30km away.
Considering the number of times allies become enemies and weapons get sold to friendlies, but end up in the hands of other, there's a train of thought that the we sold them the weapons/technology, so we're at fault, is a fall back position. It was a good idea when it was done. Give the Iraqi's weapons so they could take on the Iranians who were getting weapons from ................who? Then spend the next 7 years killing half a million soldiers. an unknown number of civilians also died but these regimes killed civilian s regularly, so that wasn't new. The fact that Saddam decided to go against the US was an unfortunate thing. but we could make quite a lengthy list of allies who switched sides over the last 400(?) years or they'd just said, 'fuck it, we hate everyone, except the guy in the mirror in the morning.'I believe that you are clever enough to understand that there were more than two choices, 1) do nothing and 2) invade Iraq and Afghanistan and stay there for 10 years.
It was not a minor thing to americans, it was nothing, for all the years that he had the support of the USA and Europe for that matter. Remember who provided the chemicals for the poison (WMD) gas?
Well, I had another option, that I forwarded to the US State Department (not) namely to transfer $US30B to bak accounts in Switzerland in the name of S. Hussein and his sons and daughters in return for their immidiate departure from Iraq.Considering the number of times allies become enemies and weapons get sold to friendlies, but end up in the hands of other, there's a train of thought that the we sold them the weapons/technology, so we're at fault, is a fall back position. It was a good idea when it was done. Give the Iraqi's weapons so they could take on the Iranians who were getting weapons from ................who? Then spend the next 7 years killing half a million soldiers. an unknown number of civilians also died but these regimes killed civilian s regularly, so that wasn't new. The fact that Saddam decided to go against the US was an unfortunate thing. but we could make quite a lengthy list of allies who switched sides over the last 400(?) years or they'd just said, 'fuck it, we hate everyone, except the guy in the mirror in the morning.'
A number of countries have played hard ball with the Afghan tribes with little success; most recently the Nato and the Russians. They don't scare much.There may be clouds, but they are not in my mind, not today, anyway.
There were of course a multitude of options. If I had been in charge(!), I would have bombed the crap out of Afghanistan and eliminated all the Al Quada camps, and then told the Taliban, that if Al Quada ever was to establish any offices or camps there again, the same bombing would happen again. And again......
Soon the US will make a deal with the Taliban to pretty much that effect, I believe.
I did not see a compelling reason for invading Iraq at the time, and I think it has only helped Iran.
Within a year or two, the Taliban will be in charge of a large portion of Afghanistan again. I would agree with your statement that they don't scare easily.A number of countries have played hard ball with the Afghan tribes with little success; most recently the Nato and the Russians. They don't scare much.
I'll let Seth and couple of the others, far more expert than I in that theatre on TERB, give you a lesson on the Afghanistan clusterfuck.
I unfortunately feel much the same.Within a year or two, the Taliban will be in charge of a large portion of Afghanistan again. I would agree with your statement that they don't scare easily.
Exactly, and Iraq will probably be back to some unfortunate government pretty soon as well.I unfortunately feel much the same.
.......... but I say that because NATO went in with hobbles on and couldn't do the job properly, making it a much longer drawn out affair THEN started looking at a withdraw date. As an Insurgency War it hasn't even reached the historical 'average length of one, 12 years, and they are bitching.Exactly, and Iraq will probably be back to some unfortunate government pretty soon as well.
The big question will be whether the US gets the oil they were after.
I do not know what Bin Laden was hoping to acomplish, but I am sure he would consider the near bancruptcy of the US a desired goal........... but I say that because NATO went in with hobbles on and couldn't do the job properly, making it a much longer drawn out affair THEN started looking at a withdraw date. As an Insurgency War it hasn't even reached the historical 'average length of one, 12 years, and they are bitching.
Go get the pricks, but see if you can do it for under a couple of billion, will ya? Oh, and don't kill many civilians.
