$13.2 Billion Surplus from Harper

[slowpoke]

I remember there were quite a few who were critical of former PM Martin for showing up with these large surpluses. Guess who's just turned up with another one - just as large as ever? I personally like to see a positive balance at the end of the rainbow but many have complained about us being taxed too heavily - and these large surpluses prove that. They could have taxed us about $13 B less than they did...

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...urplus_payment_060925/20060925?hub=TopStories

Tories to announce $13.2B surplus, spending cuts
Updated Mon. Sep. 25 2006 2:37 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

"The Conservative government is expected to announce a federal budget surplus of $13.2 billion in the last fiscal year, and every cent will go to pay down the federal debt, CTV News has learned.


The Tories will also reveal details of a $1-billion reduction in spending across all federal departments in the 2006-07 fiscal year.


Finance Minister Jim Flaherty and Treasury Board President John Baird are scheduled to announce details of the budget results and spending cuts later today.


The Canadian Taxpayer's Federation says there is both good and bad news behind the expected announcement.


Ottawa's debt will stand at $481.5 billion after the payment is made; eight years ago the debt stood at $562 billion.


"So over the years progress has been made, and every time we pay down debt it means we're saving money on future interest payments. So that's the good news," the CTF's federal director John Williamson told CTV Newsnet.


But the bad news, he added, is that the $13.2 billion surplus is further proof that Canadians are being overtaxed by the federal government."....

 

[sorely]

. They could have taxed us about $13 B less than they did...

[.

It's good to repay debt.

 

[someone]

I was reading in the Globe that these numbers are before the GST tax cut and other cuts took effect. However, you never heard me complaining too much about the surpluses, anyway. I think that paying the debt down is a good idea. I just worry that surpluses are a tempting target for special interest groups. They are all going to claim that the government can afford to spend more on them.

 

[slowpoke]

I was reading in the Globe that these numbers are before the GST tax cut and other cuts took effect. However, you never heard me complaining too much about the surpluses, anyway. I think that paying the debt down is a good idea. I just worry that surpluses are a tempting target for special interest groups. They are all going to claim that the government can afford to spend more on them.

I know it wasn't you who was whining about Martin having a few extra bucks in the kitty. I liked those surpluses too - especially the fact that a lot of that money went towards paying off debt. But I was expecting a few on this board to stand up and complain about the taxes being too high - just like they did during Martin's watch. Bit of a double standard IMHO.

 

[slowpoke]

Uh taxes were dropped 1% on the GST in less than a year on the job and there are plans in place to drop the income taxes as time goes on. If this time next year there is no income tax relief then yeah I'll start whining about it. I just hope the provincial liberals dont take it like they did the last time.

It wasn't about specific taxes. People were complaining about any surplus simply because that was a good indicator that taxes could have been lower. So if Harper (or Martin) cut taxes in half but ended up with a whopping surplus, people would still complain that the taxes should have been cut even more.

 

[johnhenrygalt]

As long as we are facing a huge debt, there are no real surpluses.

 

[slowpoke]

As long as we are facing a huge debt, there are no real surpluses.

I know I'm going to sound like OTB (shudder) but is our current debt really that huge relative to our overall economy (GNP, income etc)? Don't get me wrong - I'd love to see it reduced to a tiny fraction of GNP but aren't at least getting it down to moderate territory??

 

[Keebler Elf]

Saying that taxes are too high is only part of the problem. The truth of the matter is that the estimates are deliberately underestimated so that the government (be it Lib/Con) can look "great" when the real figures turn out to be "better" than expected.

 

[1hornychinaman]

Uh taxes were dropped 1% on the GST in less than a year on the job and there are plans in place to drop the income taxes as time goes on. If this time next year there is no income tax relief then yeah I'll start whining about it. I just hope the provincial liberals dont take it like they did the last time.

That 1% tax cut doesn't really help anyone. It looks all nice and good cause it's a visible tax cut, we see it every day when we buy something. But how much money do we really spend each day? I mean the only the time that I really noticed it was when I paid $4.23 instead of $4.27 for my big mac combo (when they still had extra value meals).
The tax cut only really helps rich people. 1% is a big thing when you spend $95000 on your new lexus. Not so much homes, just cause GST isn't used. But you get my point. The only people that save money are the people that spend big bucks, ie: not the middle to low income people that really need a tax break.
I just think that an income tax break would have helped out a lot more, the present government is saying they'll cut income taxes too, but two tax breaks in a single term means a lot of stuff is going to be cut...

... and don't get me started about that $1200 for each child. It's nice to get a $100 a month for having a kid, but lets be honest. How many of you guys spent that on stuff for your kid and not on beer or chips? It's a shame that liberal candidate said it out loud what everyone was thinking and got sh!tcanned for it.

 

[basketcase]

...
Ottawa's debt will stand at $481.5 billion after the payment is made; eight years ago the debt stood at $562 billion.
....

And people complain about Liberal economics!

 

[dreamer]

Wrong, the tax cut helps business which in turn employs more people which in turn improves the economy, reduces the unemployed rolls and will result in higher wages being offered

Not true, it does not matter to me what the GST rate is because it just passes through my books.

The GST cut only affects the end user, ie the consumer.

Now if your argument is that it helps businesses because the end user now has more money and can buy more I could live with that, except I have not really noticed more spending on my part, maybe a little too early to tell.

The real test will be a few years after the 2% cut is fully implemented and whether or not retail prices go up to absorb it. Of course if they do then businesses would benefit, but that was not the intention of the tax cut.

 

[SilentLeviathan]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind paying more taxes, I just want to know that the money is being used properly.

 

[scouser1]

as a long time card carrying member of the Conservative Party I am truly done with this party as long as Harper and his band are in charge. Israel's "measured response" was bad enough, but yesterday they cancelled a program called the Youth International Internship Program, a program where the Department of Foreign Affairs paid for a very select few young people to work abroad for a year, I took part in this program a few years back in Moscow, it was a wonderful learning experience and I recommended it to anyone, now to have these neo con short sighted goofs take it away I consider a great tragedy, couldnt they find the money somewhere else like a useless organization such as the CRTC who tells me that having ESPN and HBO will lead to the downfall of Canadian culture.

 

[slowandeasy]

Get rid of the debt and we will save even more $$ and try and fix all the problems that overspending caused in the first place. Once thats done, we can look at SIG's.

Why is this such a difficult thing for Canadians to understand??? I cannot fathom it... The amount that we are paying for servicing that debt is criminal.

Yes our taxes are high.. too high?? maybe... Unfortunately, quite a few generations of people did not seem to see the problem early enough, and racked up a huge debt that we have to.. unless you want to just pass it on to your children and future generations.

I blame it on the Baby Boomers who racked up the debt, underfunded CPP, and now all of these bastards are stressing out our healthcare and social assistance programs..... BTW, I am only half joking

My biggest beef about a surplus, is that I am afraid that the all the pigs will be fighting at the trough to get that money... Given the amount of money squandered by the Liberals in the past, you become uneasy about giving government money...

 

[slowandeasy]

I recall making a post a couple of years back that specifically said, I'm in favour of the debt being reduced and the taxes being kept the same and then gradually lowered as the debt was brought down.

Martin was a great finance minister just a terrible PM.

I thougt the guy was as genius as a finance minister, and a complete moron as a PM... in his defence, Martin got handed a big bag of shit by that Chretien.

 

[someone]

That 1% tax cut doesn't really help anyone. It looks all nice and good cause it's a visible tax cut, we see it every day when we buy something. But how much money do we really spend each day? I mean the only the time that I really noticed it was when I paid $4.23 instead of $4.27 for my big mac combo (when they still had extra value meals).
The tax cut only really helps rich people. 1% is a big thing when you spend $95000 on your new lexus. Not so much homes, just cause GST isn't used. But you get my point. The only people that save money are the people that spend big bucks, ie: not the middle to low income people that really need a tax break.
I just think that an income tax break would have helped out a lot more, the present government is saying they'll cut income taxes too, but two tax breaks in a single term means a lot of stuff is going to be cut...

... and don't get me started about that $1200 for each child. It's nice to get a $100 a month for having a kid, but lets be honest. How many of you guys spent that on stuff for your kid and not on beer or chips? It's a shame that liberal candidate said it out loud what everyone was thinking and got sh!tcanned for it.

I agree that an income tax would have been better but I disagree with your reasoning. A GST cut actually benefits low income people more as they spend a higher percentage of their income on goods and services (i.e. they save less). However, the reason I think an income tax cut would have been better is that it would not have had the same negative effect on savings. E.g. you can only get the GST cut if you spend money. Yet, savings are what lead to long term economic growth. BTW, I was reading that the GST cut is estimated to cost the feds about 4.5. million, thus collectively we do spend a lot.

In addition, I'm cheap and tend not to spend much and save a fair amount so an income tax cut would have been better for my bankbook .

 

[allaboutben]

as a long time card carrying member of the Conservative Party I am truly done with this party as long as Harper and his band are in charge. Israel's "measured response" was bad enough, but yesterday they cancelled a program called the Youth International Internship Program, a program where the Department of Foreign Affairs paid for a very select few young people to work abroad for a year, I took part in this program a few years back in Moscow, it was a wonderful learning experience and I recommended it to anyone, now to have these neo con short sighted goofs take it away I consider a great tragedy, couldnt they find the money somewhere else like a useless organization such as the CRTC who tells me that having ESPN and HBO will lead to the downfall of Canadian culture.

Hmmm, paying someone to work in another country? That does sound like a waste of money. Good move by Harper.

I cant believe the interest rate on the debt is still quite high. Thanks to Trudeau probably. A lot of that crap must be coming due in the next 5-10 yrs. Overall debt is still high. Apparently the Liberals didnt pay down that much after all. We never see the net asset position. I'd estimate it to be quite huge considering all the land & buildings the govt owns. Although they should really allocate the expense to different depts to get a better idea where the true costs are.

BTW, the federal & prov govts have never really been thoroughly audited. From the point, I take all govt numbers with a grain of salt. The inter-govt transactions would be a pure nightmare to sort through.

 

[scouser1]

its not paying someone to work in another country, its an opportunity for university grads to get some work experience, anyone who says good riddance to this program obviously forgot what it was like to be 22 just out of university or college applying for jobs and told oh sorry not enough experience, this is the sort of program that gave young people that experience in order to become fully productive and tax paying members of society.

 

[allaboutben]

its not paying someone to work in another country, its an opportunity for university grads to get some work experience, anyone who says good riddance to this program obviously forgot what it was like to be 22 just out of university or college applying for jobs and told oh sorry not enough experience, this is the sort of program that gave young people that experience in order to become fully productive and tax paying members of society.

If the govt is out of pocket, they are paying for it. I remember exactly what it was like when I was 22. I worked hard and got a good job on my own. I didnt need any handouts. Im not in favour of paying somebody to get some 'work experience' in another country. Sounds like a program ripe to be abused.

 

[woolf]

I agree that an income tax would have been better but I disagree with your reasoning. A GST cut actually benefits low income people more as they spend a higher percentage of their income on goods and services (i.e. they save less).

Absolutely totally wrong (well, except for the part about an income tax cut being "better" than a GST cut.)

When you're poor almost all of your money goes to food (not GST) and Rent (no GST)

If you're rich enough to afford the luxury of say cable television, and maybe $50 with of gas a week, a hydro bill of $60 a month (Assuming you're not living in an apartment and have it included in the rent, ) then your total monthly GST taxable spending is:

Cable $50
Gas $200
Hydro $60

Total: $310

1% GST Savings: $3.10 per month.

And that's being generous with possible savings.

Poor people actually spend a smaller portion of their money on "Goods and Services" because the major expenses are not considered "goods and services" for the purpose of GST.