Advocacy groups concerned as TTC fare inspectors, special constables will be equipped with body-worn cameras starting in May

Knuckle Ball said:

I’m not sure why advocacy groups would be concerned about this. In fact, they are generally the ones advocating for cops to wear body cameras that stay turned on in order to hold cops accountable.

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Kautilya said:

They are concerned that pre-existing systemic discrimination, could capture people in their worst moments, and then used as a reason to over police said groups. Namely, homeless, the mentally ill etc., It is a valid concern. I think certain standards need to be established about when cameras are turned on or off, so that context can be reviewed.

Some groups are expressing concerns: those experiencing homelessness or mental health issues could become targets, whether racism and discrimination will come into play when a fare is being checked, or when exactly cameras will be turned on and off.

"It's not a prevention tool. It is a clean up the mess after the fact tool. That's not where we should be putting our resources and our time and our money," said Anna Willats, a member of the Toronto Police Accountability Coalition.

"The presence of (a) body-worn camera will inevitably and by design capture people in their worst moments, which contributes to the systemic over-surveillance of homeless people," Diana Chan McNally, a front-line worker with people experiencing homelessness, told the TTC board at a meeting Thursday.

Gibson, who oversees the camera policy, said the concerns are valid because many people are aware of the cameras from a police environment.

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Joyrection said:

These groups do not have the safety and the welfare of cummuters as their first thought. They don't care that their clients may have an "episode" and terrorize or assault citizens just trying live their lives while traveling on the TTC. Soon as they started with this BS against TTC staff having body cameras their opinions should have been disregarded.

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Kautilya said:

I dont know if it should be disregarded, but I think generally the body cams are a good idea. May be hear them out and work in a way to address their concerns via some sort of adjustment to current processes.

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Butler1000 said:

The problem is they want the cameras to hold officers accountable but not the general public. That's not how it works. The cameras should just be on. Let the chips fall as they may with the truth.

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Knuckle Ball said:

I’m not sure why advocacy groups would be concerned about this. In fact, they are generally the ones advocating for cops to wear body cameras that stay turned on in order to hold cops accountable.

Click to expand...

Kautilya said:

I dont know if it should be disregarded, but I think generally the body cams are a good idea. May be hear them out and work in a way to address their concerns via some sort of adjustment to current processes.

Click to expand...

Knuckle Ball said:

I’m not sure why advocacy groups would be concerned about this. In fact, they are generally the ones advocating for cops to wear body cameras that stay turned on in order to hold cops accountable.

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Joyrection said:

Nope, when they start seeing that holding people accountable for their own actions regardless of their situation then they can start having real productive conversations with stakeholders.

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Kautilya said:

How? What is the measure? Conversations with stakeholders are had before you make changes, not after.

Systemic racism, over policing of certain communities are and have always been issues and raising those as concerns IS valid. And holding people accountable goes both ways. So if you are going to have body cams, then well and good, but concerns absolutely need to be heard and addressed.

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Joyrection said:

Nope. What solutions are they providing to make the transit system safer for everyone? None. The TTC system needs a sustainable ridership of actual paying customers and these advocates don't give a hoot about that. Utter nonsense to give time to people who don't pay or care if your mulitbillion dollar investment in rapid transit fails.

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Kautilya said:

They are concerned that pre-existing systemic discrimination, could capture people in their worst moments, and then used as a reason to over police said groups. Namely, homeless, the mentally ill etc., It is a valid concern. I think certain standards need to be established about when cameras are turned on or off, so that context can be reviewed.

Some groups are expressing concerns: those experiencing homelessness or mental health issues could become targets, whether racism and discrimination will come into play when a fare is being checked, or when exactly cameras will be turned on and off.

"It's not a prevention tool. It is a clean up the mess after the fact tool. That's not where we should be putting our resources and our time and our money," said Anna Willats, a member of the Toronto Police Accountability Coalition.

"The presence of (a) body-worn camera will inevitably and by design capture people in their worst moments, which contributes to the systemic over-surveillance of homeless people," Diana Chan McNally, a front-line worker with people experiencing homelessness, told the TTC board at a meeting Thursday.

Gibson, who oversees the camera policy, said the concerns are valid because many people are aware of the cameras from a police environment.

Click to expand...

Kautilya said:

They are concerned that pre-existing systemic discrimination, could capture people in their worst moments, and then used as a reason to over police said groups. Namely, homeless, the mentally ill etc., It is a valid concern. I think certain standards need to be established about when cameras are turned on or off, so that context can be reviewed.

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shack said:

Instead of a "he said, she said" situation, the cameras will show the truth. Is that a problem for you?

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Hands95 said:

In Ottawa, fare inspectors who board a bus check everyone on the bus. You believe that having a camera record this somehow makes it work against the people being checked? Right now, if either passenger or fare inspector appear to step out of line, there will likely be multiple cell phones videotaping it. In theory, it should keep a fare inspector in line and document whether he is doing the job correctly or harassing someone. Cameras should always be on if he is on the job.

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Toronto advocacy group concerned new TTC body cams and use of force policy are dangerous to riders - NOW Toronto

TTC Board announced a pilot program where special constables and fare inspectors will wear body cams as well as a new use of force policy.

nowtoronto.com

Knuckle Ball said:

I’m not sure why advocacy groups would be concerned about this. In fact, they are generally the ones advocating for cops to wear body cameras that stay turned on in order to hold cops accountable.

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• Do they get to turn it off when it suits them?
• Do they get to not release the video when it suits them? (and how does a member of the public or their legal representative obtain a video?)
• If they can't but do it anyway, what disciplinary measures apply?
• What independent oversight and / or recourse authority will exist in the event of a dispute along the lines of those matters, or if inconvenient videos get corrupted or go missing?

Valcazar said:

I thought the evidence was in that body cams don't really stop cops from violating rights or hold them accountable?
There is some effect but it is weak.

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