A little methane with your CO2, sir?

mburner

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2009
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Trump Administration Erases the Government’s Power to Fight Climate Change
The Environmental Protection Agency repealed the bedrock scientific finding that greenhouse gases threaten human life and well being. It means the agency can no longer regulate them.
 
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oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
16,532
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Ghawar
Is that really bad news?

Climate change or no climate change Canada under Carney will become
a fossil fuel superpower anyway. Now we can go along with U.S. climate
policy on good conscience and continue producing more oil, gas and coal.
 
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squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
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Trump Administration Erases the Government’s Power to Fight Climate Change
The Environmental Protection Agency repealed the bedrock scientific finding that greenhouse gases threaten human life and well being. It means the agency can no longer regulate them.
2 plus more years and all the nonsense and bullshit Trump has created will be wiped out.
 
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JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Unless, of course, we're all wiped out first.

Co2 is not the control knob for our extremely complex, non -linear , chaotic and dynamic climate system

one should also consider exactly what The Environmental Protection Agency accomplished with their foolish ruling that co2, the gas that all life depends on, was somehow a deadly threat
they certainly did not stop the accumulation of co2 in the atmosphere

1770945177217.png

you might also ponder the 2020 pandemic lock down , where human activity and human co2 generation was severely constrained
and there is no observable change in the rate of c02 accumulation in the atmosphere, despite the lock down

No amount of regulation, Carbon taxes, EV Mandates, restrictions on personal freedoms, ignorant Swedish teenagers, face gluing to the pavements or any other foolish climate action is going to change the rate of c02 accumulation in the atmosphere

the good news is that Co2 is not the control knob for our extremely complex, non -linear , chaotic and dynamic climate system
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Co2 is not the control knob for our extremely complex, non -linear , chaotic and dynamic climate system
The NASA kids explanation of the Greenhouse effect is likely too hard for you to understand, but give it a try.
See if you can follow the science or tell us where they went wrong without just declaring it 'propaganda'.

 

roddermac

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2023
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Trump Administration Erases the Government’s Power to Fight Climate Change
The Environmental Protection Agency repealed the bedrock scientific finding that greenhouse gases threaten human life and well being. It means the agency can no longer regulate them.
And how should governments fight climate change. By banning gas powered law mowers but not private jets or super yachts.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
19,796
5,054
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this guy has no idea what hes talking about.

really ?
if true, then you would be able to explain why there was no change in the rate of CO2 due to massive restrictions on human activity in 2020
please explain?

a follow up question for you: what level of restrictions on human activity would be required to stop the accumulation of C02 ?
locking down 1/2 of the worlds population did not work


1770957094134.png

my guess is you will run away from that question just as fast as you can
however if my guess about you is wrong , then i would be most interested to see your responses to those very specific question put to you.
 
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JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
19,796
5,054
113
The NASA kids explanation of the Greenhouse effect is likely too hard for you to understand, but give it a try.
See if you can follow the science or tell us where they went wrong without just declaring it 'propaganda'.


you really should try to elevate your science understanding above videos intended to deliberately mislead children

no doubt the will be some children who will rightfully question the intentional deceit
where does that rank you?
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
19,796
5,054
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And how should governments fight climate change. By banning gas powered law mowers but not private jets or super yachts.

our extremely complex, chaotic, non-linear, dynamic climate system has always changed and likely will continue to change
there is no ' fighting ' that
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
109,512
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you really should try to elevate your science understanding above videos intended to deliberately mislead children

no doubt the will be some children who will rightfully question the intentional deceit
where does that rank you?
It ranks you as a total kook, someone who thinks NASA is propaganda.
It puts you in the category of people who think the moon landing was faked and the earth is flat.

Well done.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
109,512
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our extremely complex, chaotic, non-linear, dynamic climate system has always changed and likely will continue to change
there is no ' fighting ' that
Look, buddy, you're not smart enough to even understand the kids Greenhouse page at NASA.
There is zero chance you can understand the climate and climate modelling.

Just admit it.
You aren't bright enough for this debate.

Just because its too complex and chaotic for you to understand doesn't mean that smarter people can't understand it.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
19,796
5,054
113
]Look, buddy, you're not smart enough to even understand the kids Greenhouse page at NASA.
a buddy is someone i respect
you are not my buddy


There is zero chance you can understand the climate and climate modelling.
our climate system is far too complex to be modelled properly
they do not know how to model cloud formation or turbulence, so they just do not bother or make a guess


Just admit it.
You aren't bright enough for this debate.
i have forgotten more than you will ever understand

Just because its too complex and chaotic for you to understand doesn't mean that smarter people can't understand it.
you do not have the very first clue about what you speak

AI Overview


Yes, a chaotic system can be modeled
, but its inherent sensitivity to initial conditions (the butterfly effect) means long-term prediction is impossible.

AI Overview


]Modeling the climate is one of the most complex scientific endeavors due to the need to simulate the intricate, non-linear interactions of the Earth's atmosphere, oceans, cryosphere, and biosphere
. Despite advancements, climate models face significant challenges, ranging from computational limitations to gaps in physical understanding.
Key challenges in climate modeling include:
  • Cloud Representation (The Biggest Uncertainty):
    Simulating cloud systems, which can both warm and cool the planet, is a major, long-standing challenge. Clouds are complex, depend on many variables, and often exist at scales too small to be directly simulated, leading to significant variations in how models predict climate sensitivity.
  • Coarse Spatial Resolution:
    Most global models divide the Earth into 100x100 km grid cells, which cannot resolve smaller-scale phenomena like thunderstorms, mountains, or urban heat islands. Subgrid processes, such as convection, must be parameterized, which can introduce errors.
  • Computational Intensity and Data Bottlenecks:
    High-resolution models require immense computing power. As models become more detailed, managing and analyzing the massive data output creates significant bottlenecks, prompting researchers to seek faster, often less accurate, alternatives.
  • Incomplete Understanding of Feedbacks:
    The climate system has feedback loops that are not fully understood or accurately modeled, such as the release of methane from thawing permafrost or the precise impact of aerosols on clouds.
  • "Right Answer for Wrong Reasons":
    Climate models may accurately predict surface temperature by having compensating errors—for instance, overestimating cloud cooling while underestimating greenhouse warming—which means they may not be accurate when conditions change in the future.
  • Internal Variability:
    Natural, random variations in the climate system, such as El Niño, can amplify or diminish climate change over short periods (1-30 years), making it difficult to project local, short-term trends.
  • "Hot Model" Problem:
    Some recent generation models (CMIP6) have predicted significantly higher warming (high climate sensitivity) than observational records suggest, a phenomenon researchers are actively trying to correct.
  • Limited Observations for Validation:
    Reliable observational data is often sparse, inhomogeneous, or spans too short a time, which limits the ability to train and validate models, especially regarding rare extreme events.



Frankfooter: you should not lecture others on issues you do not understand
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
109,512
33,034
113
a buddy is someone i respect
you are not my buddy
You think you are respected, buddy?


our climate system is far too complex to be modelled properly
they do not know how to model cloud formation or turbulence, so they just do not bother or make a guess
Again, while its nice that you admit your inability to understand things that doesn't mean that smarter people can't figure it out.
Now that you've admitted you can't understand it you should leave it to the experts.



i have forgotten more than you will ever understand
the great larue has spoken


you do not have the very first clue about what you speak
the great larue has spoken

As for the AI, this is what AI says about its own findings.
Your reliance on AI just shows more ignorance.

AI Overview


AI models frequently produce inconsistent or opposite findings on repeated queries due to their
probabilistic (non-deterministic) nature and design as creative text generators rather than rigid databases. Studies indicate that AI search tools can provide conflicting answers over 60% of the time, often confidently presenting incorrect information.

  • Probabilistic "Hallucinations": AI models operate on probability, not true understanding, which can lead to making assumptions, misinterpreting data, or even generating opposite information to the source they are citing.
 
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