With everyone saying "get a lawyer" I am still confused why she needs one? Did she want to go after the guy in civil court to get money from him? If yes, then sure, she needs a lawyer. But there is no financial damage done, so, I am not sure if there is any chance to get any money. If she wants criminal charges to be laid, then she needs to go to the police, not a lawyer - there is nothing a lawyer can do. And if the guy did not post the video online, it is a very minor criminal (I am not even sure if it can be classified as a criminal) offence. Or does she need a lawyer to protect herself from any harm that can come her way after going to the police? I.e., does she want to invest her own time and money and, most likely, harm her business just to out the guy (there is definitely no jail time here). Well, it is her time, money, and business. In our SP/client world, it is always best to let it go and walk away. As I said, if the client gets robbed by SPs (I mean, physically with SPs "bodyguard" in the room) or simply gets scammed out of money, that client will not go to the police because he has nothing to gain and lots to lose. This situation is the same, but now the SP is the victim. Life is not fair; get used to it or die fighting.
Caught a client. With a hidden camera
- Thread starter taya6ix
- Start date
@wiskey bravo provides excellent information... for civil case looking for financial compensation.
But unless @taya6ix . want to pursue a civil claim for financial damages, she doesn't need a lawyer.
If she is simply wants to inform the police so they can investigate him for other recordings, history or just to put a flag on his file in the TPS internal database, she can just call the Sex Crimes Unit lead investigator for this category (I provided her name and contact info a few pages back) and they will do the investigation. Including applying for and executing Search Warrants on, and analyzing his digital devices, interviews/interrogation etc.
Do not waste your time complaining at the Divisional level. They are already overworked by property crimes and general investigations. More of ten than not, the local CIB will blow you off. And they will refer this case to Sx Crimes Unit.
The police will do the investigation. No charge!
If there is sufficient evidence to proceed with charges, they may consult with a Crown Attorney (or not) and lay the appropriate charge(s).
Then the Crown Attorney will take over the criminal prosecution. The complainant (victim) will not need a lawyer.
@taya6ix has already stated her motivation. She wants to protect others from this criminal and wants to know whether he has other recordings of her. And if they have been posted online etc. Guys like this, are like the Shoe Cam pervert voyeurs and child porn criminals, this is habitual behaviour and not likely their first time.
(If she feels she has suffered financially compensable damages, she is best to wait until the criminal investigation and proceedings have finished. However, she would have to prove financial damages and/or mental anguish ... and the guy would have to be financially worth pursuing. Also, in Canada, mental distress is not well compensated like it would be in the USA.)
But unless @taya6ix . want to pursue a civil claim for financial damages, she doesn't need a lawyer.
If she is simply wants to inform the police so they can investigate him for other recordings, history or just to put a flag on his file in the TPS internal database, she can just call the Sex Crimes Unit lead investigator for this category (I provided her name and contact info a few pages back) and they will do the investigation. Including applying for and executing Search Warrants on, and analyzing his digital devices, interviews/interrogation etc.
Do not waste your time complaining at the Divisional level. They are already overworked by property crimes and general investigations. More of ten than not, the local CIB will blow you off. And they will refer this case to Sx Crimes Unit.
The police will do the investigation. No charge!
If there is sufficient evidence to proceed with charges, they may consult with a Crown Attorney (or not) and lay the appropriate charge(s).
Then the Crown Attorney will take over the criminal prosecution. The complainant (victim) will not need a lawyer.
@taya6ix has already stated her motivation. She wants to protect others from this criminal and wants to know whether he has other recordings of her. And if they have been posted online etc. Guys like this, are like the Shoe Cam pervert voyeurs and child porn criminals, this is habitual behaviour and not likely their first time.
(If she feels she has suffered financially compensable damages, she is best to wait until the criminal investigation and proceedings have finished. However, she would have to prove financial damages and/or mental anguish ... and the guy would have to be financially worth pursuing. Also, in Canada, mental distress is not well compensated like it would be in the USA.)
My last outcall experience was an eye opener. The girl was super chill, and I’ve seen her as an outcall before so we had a rapport but when she showed up she scanned the room quickly before getting comfortable and used my shower. After we finished we were lying in bed and I asked about her pre-session look over and she told me it’s unbelievable how many guys will try the hidden camera thing. I was completely shocked. Over the years she’s found hidden cameras hiding as pens, cell chargers, and clock radios. Once she even found a phone propped up on the room table in plain sight already recording when she walked in!
There was action taken on my agencie's end with posting a warning thread about him in the private SP bad dates section and for agencies to have the details
Same here — with all these spy cameras and camera glasses around, we really have to be extra careful these days
I blame the Zuck. That autistic lil FukkSame here — with all these spy cameras and camera glasses around, we really have to be extra careful these days
Seriously though I don’t see why you guys can’t find clients via tinder or bumble or okc or pof, and then invite these guys onto instagram and your OnlyFans. It’s a lot safer IMHO.
And also any of the Reddit Toronto groups.
It’s safe and you make Huuuge money.
Omg if I were a girl I’d be a Billionaire
Here's an idea for the ladies. Get an Ikea shopping bag. Tell your clients to put everything inside the bag at the door. Leave the bag at the door. Cover the bag with a towel. Done.
This was in Québec but a man was just sentenced to 22 months in jail for non-consensual filming of encounters with about 30 or so sex workers— criminal charges are a possibility depending on laws here. Connect with Maggie’s and they should have a lawyer to consult as well as a direct line to sex crimes unit at TPS. Sorry you went through this.
Feel bad you have to go through this.
I would so pissed off if I saw any of my acting out online
Definitely need to added to agencies bad dates list
What else did you end up doing?
Did you get him to erase the recording ?
Did you seek legal advice or report to police?
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Between him and Elon.... FFS why didn't MY Mother take too much Tylenol when she was pregnant?!?!?I blame the Zuck. That autistic lil Fukk
The criminal law is the same across Canada. So yes, he committed a criminal act.
NOTE to GUYS!!!! He also pled guilty to charges of "obtaining sexual services for remuneration".
So yeah, keep in mind that this "hobby" is illegal.
Whenever you are asked for e-transfers, your LinkdIn or if you are not using a burner phone, keep in mind that you are exposing yourself to increased risk of being charged.
You may find yourself as 'innocent' by-catch of some other investigation of an agency or maybe an "indy" is really not an "indy". So every step to make it more difficult for the police to track you down is worth it. If they can take down a bunch of guys that are easily identified by the agency or pimp or subject's devices and databases to make a public splash, they may do so more easily with the information you provided the provider. If it takes more effort, then the cops are less likely to bother with warrants to work through multiple layers to identify you.
But make no mistake, if you are a sleazebag or assault or film or whatever... no burner phone or burner /text app is going to protect you or hide your identity. The police have the tools to swim upstream and identify you quite readily. It just takes a serious enough offence and effort of the investigators to get warrants to identify you.
Here is the article translated to english.
A hardened criminal was sentenced to a "severe" sentence of 22 months in prison for filming about thirty sex workers without their knowledge. Accumulating 150 convictions, Martin Pillay is "unable to live in society without committing crimes," according to a judge.
"Certainly, the sentences attempted did not have the expected effect. His history is serious and important. The total is around 150 criminal records. Clearly, rehabilitation justice has put society in danger. He doesn't know how to behave there, "said Judge Thierry Nadon, when he handed down the sentence last Wednesday at the Montreal courthouse.
At 45, Martin Pillay has "persistent, constant and chronic" crime: more than 110 convictions for non-compliance with conditions and heavy history for harassment, robbery, sequestration, assault, fraud and burglary.
His portrait is so disturbing that believing in his "social reintegration" would be "to show magical thought or dangerous blindness for society," Judge Nadon even concluded.
Last Monday, Martin Pillay cut short his trial by pleading guilty to voyeurism and obtaining sexual services for remuneration. For five years, he filmed his sexual frolics with 29 sex workers, unbelied to them. During this period, he was under probation, prison sentences at home and prison sentences on weekends.
"He films things that could not be more explicit and personal: blowjobs, complete sexual relations, discussions on ITS, price negotiations, real identities and discussions on personal topics, including his studies," summarized Judge Nadon.
Martin Pillay justified his actions in a surprising way: he wanted to "avoid being accused" by women. The judge rejected his arguments en bloc.
"Asserting or implying that moral guilt is less since coming from a sexual relationship in exchange for money helps perpetuate myths against sex workers," said Judge Nadon.
A "severe" sentence
The defense lawyer, Jonas Fadeu, requested an eight-month prison sentence, while the Crown Prosecutor, Me Ève Malouin, demanded an exemplary sentence of three years in prison.
In theory, the offence of voyeurism can result in a maximum sentence of five years in prison. But in fact, the sentences imposed always vary between acquittal and two years of imprisonment. In case law, there is hardly any higher sentence. The maximum of five years is therefore almost a matter of theory.
Judge Nadon concluded a "severe" sentence of 22 months in prison, which is at the top of the "senalty range" in terms of voyeurism. He noted many aggravating factors, including premeditation, the "very long period" of offense, the large number of victims and the consequences on them.
The judge also retained as mitigating factors his admission of guilt, which avoids the viewing of 16 hours of videos in the courtroom, and his "well-felt" regrets and remorse.
Martin Pillay is not done with justice: his trial for possession of a prohibited firearm with ammunition began last Wednesday. However, the accused requested the judge's recusal, without however giving reasons. A request to this effect is to be debated next Tuesday.
In addition, Martin Pillay was sentenced last January at the Longueuil courthouse to six months in prison for harassment and voyeurism towards a woman. He had threatened to expose his victim to his family if she did not give him her cell phone. He also sent her videos of a sexual relationship filmed without her knowledge.
That's also a good idea for guys because it then sequesters their belongings in a bag rather than leaving them on the chair where your pockets could be rifled through. And it also protects the girl from false allegations of stealing from the guys wallet as he can take the bag into the bathroom during his shower.
Very good point that should be a sticky in all the threads that discuss burner phones and text apps.
I don't think that's the message you should be getting from this.. I have simply never heard of a client getting arrested and going to jail only for buying sexual services, this charge was probably added only to add weight to the sentence. Men filming us during sessions without our consent happens, and like I said, it's not consensual therefore a sexual assault! Please don't use this example as an excuse to tell everyone not to screen or send deposits. It's extremely unfair to us. There's no reason why we would bring someone's information to the police and to a lawyer unless a client violently assaulted us, stole from us or did something like filming the session. In this case this client was known to do this frequently.
Unfortunately, in general, the police will not take SP seriously if we go to them with an accusation of theft or rape. It is possible with enough support to start a criminal case, but several of my colleagues myself included have experienced violence, theft, non consensual filming, boundary pushing, harassment among other things from clients. None of us went to the police or doxxed these clients, but we learn to protect ourselves from such individuals.. You are not going to go to jail if the police somehow finds out you purchased sexual services unless there are other elements in the case such as the girl being a minor, assault, etc.
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I respectfully disagree.
Here is but one, of many cases.
London police arrest 78 in Project Equinox human trafficking, prostitution investigation - London | Globalnews.ca
A six-month human trafficking project named Project Equinox has led the London Police to arrest 78 people, lay 129 charges, and charge 35 johns.
globalnews.ca
"A six-month human trafficking project named Project Equinox has led the London police to arrest 78 people, lay 129 charges, and charge 35 people as johns, or people paying for the services of a prostitute."
I think that anyone who assaults, films, harasses etc another person is despicable and they should be held to account. Including, and especially, being charged criminally. I have had several gf's over the years that are survivors of sexual assault, harrassment, stalking etc to varying degrees. And even the most minor of these harms have had life-changing effects on them. Having their assailants held to account criminally or civilly made a big difference in their recovery. And some have said they simply did not want to go through more trauma and disruption in their lives to have them charged or sue them.
I respect each of their individividual choices.
And that's why I earlier said that the OP victim of the camera pig might want to consider making a formal complaint to the police. I even went so far as to give her the name, direct telephone number of the specific investigator in the Sex Crimes Unit who would take her complaint. Not to go to the local Division and get blown off by the Front Desk or calling it in for a car to, maybe, come by. I want this guy caught because IT IS NOT likely his first time. And if he is not investigated, it WILL NOT BE HIS LAST TIME.
But I respect her choice to not bring more attention or trauma upon herself if she chooses not to. I won't shame her by saying if she does nothing then she is allowing the next woman to be victimized. Who knows what the OP has going on in her life or the reasons that she may not want to expose herself to the routine scrutiny these investigations require.
So.... that brings me to MY choice.
I have nothing to hide, have never assaulted nor otherwise caused an sp any distress. Nr have I ever had any encounters with anyone that I think that could be underage or being coerced. However, I have routinely had my text messages to a Leolist ad returned by someone who I later discovered was just "handling my texts" according to the girl when she didn't know anything about me asking her to dress up in a Blue Jay uniform or something!
So...who is this person handling the texts? Is it her duo partner? A legit agency who is advertising girls on LL? Or is it that formally well respected independent escort/influencer Bianca White? https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/bianca-white-arrested.902517/
This woman was the subject of an 18 month investigation into pimping that very likely resulted in her entire database or contacts, troves of text messages etc being collected into evidence. What if I had been one of the clients of the girl(s) she was booking and, worse, if one was underage but didn't look like it to me?
Do I need or want the police doing a reverse google search on my personal cell phone number, identifying me by name and calling me on my normal phone line to question me? Or showing up at my door asking, at the very best, if I know anything?
Mark my words, one day the police will be directed or otherwise decide to make a big publicity bust, including johns. The London Ontario police are famous for targeting johns or even just arresting them as part of a trafficking bust.
DAMN... I lost the rest of this post by making a wrong click... anyways, Ill make it brief. I was going into the other risks of having my personal phone number in the hands of those extortionists who text that I wasted the girls time and demand money or they will kill my family etc.
I respect your decision to have personal information on clients for your safety and even just for purposes of business screening, please respect my personal decision to not see anyone that requires my personal identity to participate in an illegal activity.
Just to be clear. I do understand and respect your and other girls decision to reduce your risks however you feel offers you any level of increased protection. You are in a vulnerable position in a hotel room or your home, naked with a stranger. And you have made a balanced risk/reward decision to require that information, knowing that it will reduce your prospective client pool. If I were in your shoes, I would do the same. But in my shoes, I have made my decision. Which does reduce the pool of many beautiful ladies that I won't be able to enjoy time with.
This case just proves Luna’s point/counter to your argument. This case had children*** age as young as 15 involved! As well as drugs, etc. They were not independent providers. Human trafficking is not sex work.I respectfully disagree.
Here is but one, of many cases.
London police arrest 78 in Project Equinox human trafficking, prostitution investigation - London | Globalnews.ca
A six-month human trafficking project named Project Equinox has led the London Police to arrest 78 people, lay 129 charges, and charge 35 johns.
"A six-month human trafficking project named Project Equinox has led the London police to arrest 78 people, lay 129 charges, and charge 35 people as johns, or people paying for the services of a prostitute."
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I agree with your points about underage, drugs etc.
But as I also said, no burner number, SIM or App, will protect anyone participating in those activities from a real investigation.
Police have a toolbox of cyber investigative resources (that we have no comprehension of the extent of) to simply look up what company was assigned a block of, or specific numbers. Say Burner or Text Now for example. The police simply get a warrant and serve it on the burner app company and they will provide the account (Apple or Android) that the burner app is associated with. Then the warrant goes to Apple or Google to tie it to the account holder. Then that info is correlated to the cellular data provider and number to identify you and create a location history on you.
If. you use a SIM based 7-11 burner phone, then it is easy for the cops to get a broad warrant to serve on the warrant to serve on the telcos. The burner number will very likely be kept in the near vicinity of, and follow the same location movement patterns of, your real cell phone through an automated investigative pattern detecting program that geo-locates and compares cell tower pinging.
That means that if your 7-11 (Rogers) phone is in your car and pings the various cell towers while you are driving around, or texting the sp, and then it is on when you arrive at the location, the software analyzer will create a digital pathway. It will also provide a path to your work, your home and normal routes you take. That can narrow things down very quickly as to you identity. And some phones even ping when they are 'Off'.
Then, the police use that metadata to contact other telco's for your specific name/address and/or to look for the same pattern of pinging to find the same geolocations and movements on another phone... your real phone. Then they tie the two numbers together and, voila, they have yor identity tied to your 7-11 or Petrocan or prepaid phone.
It sounds complicated but with the specific software tools available to law enforcement, it is quite simple. The most complicated part is writing up and getting the warrants.
It takes time and effort, but in the case of serious crimes, and if the cops are sufficiently interested, it can be, and IS done regularly. Even if charges are not brought, the investigative record still exists.
What I'm talking about with normal johns like me, is that IF -god forbid- I do find myself in an agency database or pimp/trafficker's phone that is being investigated for such crimes, then *I* am not low hanging fruit that can be easily harvested to enhance the numbers and publicity of the police operation. To find ME, the police would have to have reasons sufficient for a Judge to grant a warrant to instruct the telcos /burner app company , Apple/Google, to hand over information related to MY burner number.
And that doesn't even take into account the risks of an agency's database being hacked, breached or stolen by a disgruntled or planted booker, a lsot or stolen or hacked phone of the sp or booker etc.
Again, I'm not criticizing any sp's who want to carry out whatever screening processes they feel increases their safety. I would too.
But from my side, as a benign, easy going 'good' client that is nonetheless partaking in a criminal activity, I would prefer to take a few simple steps to maintain my (relative) privacy with a phone number , bank account or other details that aare not so readily identifiable to me personally.
Not to mention that *I* do NOT trust anyone in this shadowy business rife with scammers, extortionists, gangs, pimps etc with my banking info, real telephone number etc. Heck, I even park to minimize my chances of my car being easily identified when going to an incall. Whether it be from cops conducting routine or targeted surveillance or shady characters that might rip me off or carjack my 1996 Hyundai Tucson!
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I have said, and have said over and over again in similar threads, that Sp's have every right and reason to do what they can to enhance their security. And I 100% respect and support their decision to do so. I am sure that all have made the risk-reward analysis and made an informed choice.
But so do legit clients have the right to make their own decisions regarding protecting themselves from risks and consequences. If it means that I cannot see certain ladies or book through certain agencies, then I accept and respect that. I have carried out my own risk-reward analysis.
And while I also share the indisputable consensus that filming intimate acts without consent is absolutely wrong and despicable, it is technically criminal voyeurism, not sexual assault. Not judging the severity of the trauma or harms, just pointing out the difference in legel terms.
As for you bringing the information to the police without any reason, I also agree that you wouldn't.
BUT... people lose their phones, their phones get stolen or hacked. And many of the so-called indy's DO have pimps, handlers or even booking agents. NONE of which I would trust evidence of my personal criminal activity with. Either by risk of negligence, accident or malice. The world, and this industry are FULL of scammers who rely on horny guys not thinking prudently and will do anything to get THAT piece of ass, often a fake pic anyways. Which, in and of itself is prima facie evidence that the entity placing the ad is dishonest and is attempting a fraud, even if just that of misrepresentation.
And most of all, I disagree with your assertion that nobody is at risk of being charged for simply buying sexual services. Maybe it hasn't been an issue in the GTA... so far. Could be for political, resource limitations or societal reasons. But the fact remains, we are governed by the Nordic Model and therefore our hobby is 100% illegal. SP's are considered as 'victims' so they are immune from prosecution. But who knows what the future holds in future governments, community leaders, police personnel or whatever factors. I don't know what the statute of limitations for obtaining sexual services for remuneration is... and I don't want to find out. AFAIK, there is NO limitation period for sexual assault though.
As you, and we all should, know, the pace at which metadata is being sucked up and analyzed is increasing exponentially. Not just by Google, Meta, Amazon, Netflix, TikTok, X, Bell, Rogers, Telus and the thousands of data aggregators and brokers, but also domestic and foreign governments. If anyone knows anyone's real phone number, you can buy an extensive personal consumer profile of that person's browsing habits, location tracking etc across all your platforms. In fact, the CRA can buy your publicly available online history and profile from a commercial data broker...WITHOUT A WARRANT. I don't see why the police could not do the same buying your profile from a commercial data broker. It is truly fucking scary. And only going to get worse. Especially with the ability of AI to make specific investigations across global resources and come up with profiles etc.
So, while it now takes specific inquiries to develop a profile, the advent of AI is going to make pro-actively parsing and analyzing these databases for government reasons, like flagging tax evasion for example, the norm. It is already being done to identify potential terrorism and drug dealing persons of interest. And with 5 Eyes sharing so much intelligene and databases, it will only be a matter of time until USCBP and ICE to have access to that at the border, for example.
Look up Palantir's klover AI system designed to do EXACTLY this. Right now it is being used by ICE to find illegal immigrants.
So I still maintain my position of us guys protecting their privacy as best we can. No pussy is worth risking barebacking, either without a rubber or a burner and cash.
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I blame the Zuck. That autistic lil Fukk
Seriously though I don’t see why you guys can’t find clients via tinder or bumble or okc or pof, and then invite these guys onto instagram and your OnlyFans. It’s a lot safer IMHO.
And also any of the Reddit Toronto groups.
It’s safe and you make Huuuge money.
Omg if I were a girl I’d be a Billionaire
