Trump : Palestinians, please move out of GAZA. We (USA) will clean it up and make it the Riviera of the middle east. Then you can come back.

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Circular logic.

The US had the biggest protests since BLM, with 29% of those who voted for Biden and didn't vote for Harris saying the genocide was reason #1.
Every POTUS has been different in their support for Israel, but every one has had the option of backing peace.

Stein would have been the better choice, Sanders or AOC would have been a better choice.
trump and Harris were the worst choices.

You choose to accept that supporting genocide is better than working towards change.
That's your choice, not mine and not the choice of enough people to keep Harris out of power.

The election was not close enough for the war to be a decisive factor.
The dems lost because of moderate democrats in swing states for whom Palestine is not the most important issue.
I am merely debating for your side.
In that their choice to vote for Trump or someone else, hurt them.

 

[Frankfooter]

I dont exceptionalize October 7.
I understand it is part of a larger, long standing conflict.
I dont think anybody is saying that on October 6, everything was perfectly peaceful.
But October 7, and the subsequent Israeli response do stand on their own.
Without the October 7 attack, Gaza would still be standing. Miserable, yet standing.
When you want to resolve the conflict, perhaps considering the last 80 years is useful to set context.
But if you are discussing Israeli bombing of Gaza in 2023/24/25, you'd have to consider this on its own and then critique US reaction to it.
I dont understand where you see racism in all this.

Why?

Why ignore other events like the Great March of Return?
Why ignore international rulings on the legality of the occupation?
Why do you see resistance to an illegal occupation as just and force used against those living through apartheid just?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

You need to get your story straight. In one post you say Pro Palestinian votes had no impact and a couple of posts later you say if they had voted for Harris it would have made a difference.

See above.
It is true the war wasn't such a decisive factor in swaying the election.
I am merely talking about the pro-Palestinian voters and the choice they should have made instead of Trump or someone else.
Because I was told "What is the worst that could happen" before the election.
It is true that in the end it wouldn't have made a difference and Harris would have still lost, albeit with a narrower margin.

 

[Frankfooter]

The election was not close enough for the war to be a decisive factor.
The dems lost because of moderate democrats in swing states for whom Palestine is not the most important issue.
I am merely debating for your side.
In that their choice to vote for Trump or someone else, hurt them.

The election was one with a 1.4% difference in votes.
Why would anyone think that the issue that caused the most protests globally and through the states wouldn't affect voting?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Valcazar argues that voting for a third party candidate like Stein is a wasted vote because she isn't likely to win.
Therefore voting for Harris was a wasted vote since she wasn't likely to win and valcazar should have voted for trump.

I still dont get it.
How is that the logical conclusion?
You vote for one of the 2 candidates that is likely to hurt your cause the least.
Is that Harris or Trump?

 

[Frankfooter]

See above.
It is true the war wasn't such a decisive factor in swaying the election.
I am merely talking about the pro-Palestinian voters and the choice they should have made instead of Trump or someone else.
Because I was told "What is the worst that could happen" before the election.
It is true that in the end it wouldn't have made a difference and Harris would have still lost, albeit with a narrower margin.

What was the worst thing possible?
genocide

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Why?

Why ignore other events like the Great March of Return?
Why ignore international rulings on the legality of the occupation?
Why do you see resistance to an illegal occupation as just and force used against those living through apartheid just?

Because they did not cause the Israeli response post October 7.

 

[Frankfooter]

I still dont get it.
How is that the logical conclusion?
You vote for one of the 2 candidates that is likely to hurt your cause the least.
Is that Harris or Trump?

That would be Stein.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

The election was one with a 1.4% difference in votes.
Why would anyone think that the issue that caused the most protests globally and through the states wouldn't affect voting?

Because there just aren't enough Muslim or pro-Palestinian voters.
Certainly their vote could have narrowed the margin.
I dont think it could have won her the election.
I think what could have won the Democrats the election was to just field abetter candidate, appeal to the moderate democrats more and appeal to the younger democratic voter base more and get them to turn out.

What was the worst thing possible?
genocide

Which Trump is proposing.

That would be Stein.

Stein isn't one of the two, who could have won the election.

 

[Klatuu]

Because they did not cause the Israeli response post October 7.

This is beyond thick.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

This is beyond thick.

You can go all the way back to the 1920s if you wish.
You won't get anywhere.
Good luck with Trump.

 

[Frankfooter]

Because they did not cause the Israeli response post October 7.

Netanyahu chose how Israel responded, including blowing up his own people with the Hannibal Doctrine.
Why does that justify genocide?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Netanyahu chose how Israel responded, including blowing up his own people with the Hannibal Doctrine.
Why does that justify genocide?

You asked me a question why we aren't considering past events and I answered it.

 

[Frankfooter]

Because there just aren't enough Muslim or pro-Palestinian voters.
Certainly their vote could have narrowed the margin.
I dont think it could have won her the election.
I think what could have won the Democrats the election was to just field abetter candidate, appeal to the moderate democrats more and appeal to the younger democratic voter base more and get them to turn out.

You are rejecting the findings of a poll based on your feelings that the poll can't be correct.

Which Trump is proposing.

Biden/Harris aided genocide, trump is proposing ethnic cleansing.

Stein isn't one of the two, who could have won the election.

So?
You are supposed to vote for the party that best represents you in issues that matter to you.

 

[Frankfooter]

You asked me a question why we aren't considering past events and I answered it.

Your answer is that nothing in 76 years of illegal occupation counts except Oct 7?
Even knowing that Israel did this?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1888544663964979647

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

You are rejecting the findings of a poll based on your feelings that the poll can't be correct.

The poll did not find that.
The article you posted and your own conclusions were made up.

Biden/Harris aided genocide, trump is proposing ethnic cleansing.

Genocide is for the ICJ to determine and the US did not commit the act even if is found to have occurred.
This is your own extrapolation.
Yes Trump is proposing ethnic cleansing which is worse than what the Dems did or would have done.

So?
You are supposed to vote for the party that best represents you in issues that matter to you.

In a system where that can get you the results you want.
Not in a bi-party system where the election is really between 2 candidates.

Your answer is that nothing in 76 years of illegal occupation counts except Oct 7?

For the purposes of this discussion on who pro-Palestinians should have voted for, yes.

 

[Frankfooter]

The poll did not find that.
The article you posted and your own conclusions were made up.

The poll said that the number one reason people who voted for Biden didn't vote for Harris was the genocide.
You reject those findings.

Genocide is for the ICJ to determine and the US did not commit the act even if is found to have occurred.
This is your own extrapolation.
Yes Trump is proposing ethnic cleansing which is worse than what the Dems did or would have done.

Netanyahu has an arrest warrant for 'extermination' from the ICC and the ICJ is deliberating.
That is not my extrapolation, those are the facts.

In a system where that can get you the results you want.
Not in a bi-party system where the election is really between 2 candidates.

There are other parties you can vote for. That's how democracy works.

For the purposes of this discussion on who pro-Palestinians should have voted for, yes.

No, that is for the purpose of your own argument, where you reject all other events or choices that destroy your claim.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

The poll said that the number one reason people who voted for Biden didn't vote for Harris was the genocide.
You reject those findings.

The poll said that of the people who voted for Biden in 2020 and, who voted for someone else in 2024, 30%, didn't do so because of Gaza.
That is a minority.

Netanyahu has an arrest warrant for 'extermination' from the ICC and the ICJ is deliberating.
That is not my extrapolation, those are the facts.

I am not denying Netanyahu has an arrest warrant.
Am sure you wont deny that Trump has threatened sanctions against the ICC for it on top of pushing ethnic cleansing.
So clearly pro-Palestinians should have come together to try and vote against him.

There are other parties you can vote for. That's how democracy works.

You can.
But it gets you Trump. Good luck.

No, that is for the purpose of your own argument, where you reject all other events or choices that destroy your claim.

I dont have my own argument here.
I am talking about the pro-Palestinian vote.
So yes, in that context that the 100 year history is irrelevant.
By the way, enjoy Trump: (2:50 to 5:50 regarding Palestine)

 

[Frankfooter]

The poll said that of the people who voted for Biden in 2020 and, who voted for someone else in 2024, 30%, didn't do so because of Gaza.
That is a minority.

No, the poll was people voted for Biden in 2020 and chose not to vote at all in 2024. Biden received 12 million more votes than Harris.

I am not denying Netanyahu has an arrest warrant.
Am sure you wont deny that Trump has threatened sanctions against the ICC for it on top of pushing ethnic cleansing.
So clearly pro-Palestinians should have come together to try and vote against him.

Or they should have voted for Stein instead of voting for someone who was actively aiding and funding genocide.

You can.
But it gets you Trump. Good luck.

Blame that on the dems. 80% of dems supported ceasefire.

I dont have my own argument here.
I am talking about the pro-Palestinian vote.
So yes, in that context that the 100 year history is irrelevant.
By the way, enjoy Trump:

The dems should enjoy trump, having decided that bombing kids was more important than winning the election.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

No, the poll was people voted for Biden in 2020 and chose not to vote at all in 2024. Biden received 12 million more votes than Harris.

That is something you just made up.

Or they should have voted for Stein instead of voting for someone who was actively aiding and funding genocide.

Which is what they did and it got them Trump. Good luck. Hope you watched the clip.