Trump's tariffs clearly unconsitutional - discussion and materials

[mandrill]

The orang utan asshole is relying on the International Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977, which delegates him only emergency powers. Trade and tariffs are clearly Congressional prerogatives.

That's why the fat, dumbass dickhead keeps bleating about a "fentanyl emergency". He cannot tariff otherwise. Here's a discussion of the IEEPA :

International Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977 §203(a)(1)(B):30 If
the President “declares a national emergency” “to deal with any unusual and
extraordinary threat, which has its source in whole or substantial part outside the
United States, to the national security, foreign policy, or economy of the United
States” under Section 202(a) (50 U.S.C. §1701(a)), “the President may ...
investigate, block during the pendency of an investigation, regulate, direct and
compel, nullify, void, prevent or prohibit, any acquisition, holding, withholding,
use, transfer, withdrawal, transportation, importation or exportation of, or dealing
in, or exercising any right, power, or privilege with respect to, or transactions
involving, any property in which any foreign country or a national thereof has
any interest by any person, or with respect to any property, subject to the
jurisdiction of the United States.” In exercising this power, Section 204 (19
U.S.C. §1703) specifies that “The President, in every possible instance, shall
consult with the Congress before exercising any of the authorities granted by this
chapter and shall consult regularly with the Congress so long as such authorities are exercised.”

So this strutting eunuch buffoon is claiming that the apprehension of a few lbs of fentanyl in the course of a year is a massive emergency that requires shutting down Canada's economy.

Clearly this is an opportunity for Canada to sue the USA under NAFTA and in federal court for an injunction and damages. This bullshit EO should be frozen within a week or two.

Read this .pdf and learn what this sad shitweasel is / isn't allowed to do!

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R44707

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Here's what could get more expensive under Trump's tariffs

The tariffs would likely apply to most categories, although oil and gas appear to be exempt for now.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Skoob]

The orang utan asshole is relying on the International Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977, which delegates him only emergency powers. Trade and tariffs are clearly Congressional prerogatives.

That's why the fat, dumbass dickhead keeps bleating about a "fentanyl emergency". He cannot tariff otherwise. Here's a discussion of the IEEPA :

International Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977 §203(a)(1)(B):30 If
the President “declares a national emergency” “to deal with any unusual and
extraordinary threat, which has its source in whole or substantial part outside the
United States, to the national security, foreign policy, or economy of the United
States” under Section 202(a) (50 U.S.C. §1701(a)), “the President may ...
investigate, block during the pendency of an investigation, regulate, direct and
compel, nullify, void, prevent or prohibit, any acquisition, holding, withholding,
use, transfer, withdrawal, transportation, importation or exportation of, or dealing
in, or exercising any right, power, or privilege with respect to, or transactions
involving, any property in which any foreign country or a national thereof has
any interest by any person, or with respect to any property, subject to the
jurisdiction of the United States.” In exercising this power, Section 204 (19
U.S.C. §1703) specifies that “The President, in every possible instance, shall
consult with the Congress before exercising any of the authorities granted by this
chapter and shall consult regularly with the Congress so long as such authorities are exercised.”

So this strutting eunuch buffoon is claiming that the apprehension of a few lbs of fentanyl in the course of a year is a massive emergency that requires shutting down Canada's economy.

Clearly this is an opportunity for Canada to sue the USA under NAFTA and in federal court for an injunction and damages. This bullshit EO should be frozen within a week or two.

Read this .pdf and learn what this sad shitweasel is / isn't allowed to do!

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R44707

View attachment 402568

Are you saying there is no opioid crisis in the US?

 

[jalimon]

Are you saying there is no opioid crisis in the US?

and all of it is because of Canada?

 

[Sailorz]

It is an issue for the lawyers to figure out. If the reported figures are accurate, I'm not sure how the argument goes indicating that the drug problem has its source whole or substantially from Canada. There definitely seems to be a case for Mexico, but the figures seem too small for Canada. It depends on the source of power Trump is relying on to justify his actions.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Trump’s tariffs on Canada and Mexico may violate the free trade agreement between the three nations, raising concerns about potential economic and diplomatic fallout. Additionally, his claim that fentanyl is crossing the U.S.-Canada border at an alarming rate requires verification, as does his assertion that America is subsidizing Canada.

Trump also states that Canada has a $200 billion trade deficit with the U.S., but the actual figure is closer to $40 billion. Trade deficits are a natural part of international commerce, with all countries experiencing them in some form. Nations like Iceland and Switzerland have substantial trade deficits with most of their trading partners due to their limited natural resources and reliance on imported goods.

Trump claims that without subsidies from the U.S., Canada would cease to exist, suggesting that Canadians should throw up their hands and surrender. However, Canada’s vast natural resources and strong global trade relationships tell a different story. Many nations would welcome the opportunity to expand trade with Canada and gain access to its valuable resources, reinforcing Canada’s position as a key player in the global economy.

It is an issue for the lawyers to figure out. If the reported figures are accurate, I'm not sure how the argument goes indicating that the drug problem has its source whole or substantially from Canada. There definitely seems to be a case for Mexico, but the figures seem too small for Canada. It depends on the source of power Trump is relying on to justify his actions.

Trump has conflated multiple issues into one, creating a situation where nothing moves forward until everything is resolved. His claim that fentanyl crossing the border is tied to the trade deficit makes no logical sense. It’s like telling your boss that since the coffee machine is broken, you haven’t had your break and must be compensated for your time.

These tactics aren’t new. Trump learned them early on from his lawyers Roy Cohn using delay, inconvenience, and frustration as weapons. The strategy is simple: stall, annoy, and exhaust the opposition until they give up. Delay, delay, delay, and make them pay with time.

 

[mandrill]

Are you saying there is no opioid crisis in the US?

I'm saying that it didn't originate in Canada.

And that tariffing Canada is not a logic response, even if the problem did come from here.

And that even if tariffing Canada were a logical response, it would still be such an over reaction that a judge would strike the EO down as illegal and unreasonable.

 

[mandrill]

Trump’s tariffs on Canada and Mexico may violate the free trade agreement between the three nations, raising concerns about potential economic and diplomatic fallout. Additionally, his claim that fentanyl is crossing the U.S.-Canada border at an alarming rate requires verification, as does his assertion that America is subsidizing Canada.

Trump also states that Canada has a $200 billion trade deficit with the U.S., but the actual figure is closer to $40 billion. Trade deficits are a natural part of international commerce, with all countries experiencing them in some form. Nations like Iceland and Switzerland have substantial trade deficits with most of their trading partners due to their limited natural resources and reliance on imported goods.

Trump claims that without subsidies from the U.S., Canada would cease to exist, suggesting that Canadians should throw up their hands and surrender. However, Canada’s vast natural resources and strong global trade relationships tell a different story. Many nations would welcome the opportunity to expand trade with Canada and gain access to its valuable resources, reinforcing Canada’s position as a key player in the global economy.




Trump has conflated multiple issues into one, creating a situation where nothing moves forward until everything is resolved. His claim that fentanyl crossing the border is tied to the trade deficit makes no logical sense. It’s like telling your boss that since the coffee machine is broken, you haven’t had your break and must be compensated for your time.

These tactics aren’t new. Trump learned them early on from his lawyers Roy Cohn using delay, inconvenience, and frustration as weapons. The strategy is simple: stall, annoy, and exhaust the opposition until they give up. Delay, delay, delay, and make them pay with time.

He's got yuuuge legal problems.

First, large quantities of fentanyl don't come from Canada and the burden to show that they do is on him.

Second, a judge is going to say that the remedy is to set up more efficient and powerful law enforcement cooperation, and not imposing tariffs.

Third, a judge is going to say that he was fatally remiss in not going to Congress before seeking to use his emergency powers to write and EO.

Fourth, a judge is going to say that sometimes deficits are just simply that and can't be rectified and have to be lived with.

Fifth, a judge is going to say that his remedy is to use the arbitration clauses under NAFTA to discuss the trade imbalance, not to simply breach NAFTA unilaterally.

This EO is gonna be toast as soon as it gets in front of a judge.

 

[speakercontrols]

It's weird that you think this is actually due to minor border issues...

 

[mandrill]

It's weird that you think this is actually due to minor border issues...

It's not.

It's part of an attempt to replace income tax with tariffs and sales tax, attempted in a really maladroit, stupid, inept way by an idiot who wears orange make-up.

 

[danmand]

It's not.

It's part of an attempt to replace income tax with tariffs and sales tax, attempted in a really maladroit, stupid, inept way by an idiot who wears orange make-up.

I also believe that Trump in some deranged way believe that Canadians have a desire to join his city on the hill. I would not dismiss his wish to enlarge USA with Canada and Greenland.

 

[speakercontrols]

It's not.

It's part of an attempt to replace income tax with tariffs and sales tax, attempted in a really maladroit, stupid, inept way by an idiot who wears orange make-up.

Actually, I don't even think it's about that either. I think he's just doing trashy New Yorker negotiation style for USCMA. Make us thank-ful that he agreed to meet us. Even though he wanted a new deal.

I'm 20/80 on this 51st state bullshit. He would only want Alberta and SK anyway right? WTF would he take Quebec with their bullshit right? Maybe BC for some resources. Maybe Northern Ontario for some rare minerals and all that. That's about it. That's all Canada has.

 

[mandrill]

Actually, I don't even think it's about that either. I think he's just doing trashy New Yorker negotiation style for USCMA. Make us thank-ful that he agreed to meet us. Even though he wanted a new deal.

I'm 20/80 on this 51st state bullshit. He would only want Alberta and SK anyway right? WTF would he take Quebec with their bullshit right? Maybe BC for some resources. Maybe Northern Ontario for some rare minerals and all that. That's about it. That's all Canada has.

What does America have?

Some states with resources. Some states that are densely populated and have large service sector economies. Just like us.

The only thing America has that we do not is the west coast tech industries and the FL retirement industry.

 

[speakercontrols]

What does America have?

Really Mandrill? You're making a statement like that? Have you been drinking or just run out of steam?

 

[SchlongConery]

Are you saying there is no opioid crisis in the US?

Are you just thick or just so desperate that you need to make shit up and put words in other people's mouths?

 

[mitchell76]

 

[mitchell76]

 

[SchlongConery]

Are you saying there is no opioid crisis in the US?

But since you bring up the "opioid crisis" may I remind you that it was the good old American capitalist system of profit driven medicine that got so many American's hooked on opiods?

The Sackler Family and their drug company Perdue actively promoted and bribed US Doctors to dole out Oxycontin like they were baby aspirins. It was the UNITED STATES that created this crisis. Not Canada, not Mexico, not Chyyyynah! American GREED, their own corrupted stock market capitalism that values quarterly results over sustainable, responsible business. Their corrupt medical system controlled by profits of health insurance companies and pharmacy benefit management companies all using Oxycontin as a pain killer instead of surgery etc. All of that created 2-3 generations of opioid addicts. Then, the Puritanical govt decides that since OxyContin is so bad, that they will do a deep rectal exam and prosecute Doctors who prescribe it, so Doctors stop prescribing pharmaceutical grade drugs. What do the opoiod addicts do? They go black market.

Never mind the recreational drug users who would pop a cople Oxys to get high. They, again, came from the fucked up USA medical/pharmacueticl insurance benefits that patients diverted to the black market.

Then these people become addicts.

Oxycontin and other scheduled opiate, or opiate-like pharmaceuticals were pretty much banned. Enter fentanyl! (Wasn't there some other street synthetic opiod between Oxycontin and fentanyl?)

Americans are known gluttons with little regard for their long term health. Look at their foods! Everything is processed and full of sugar and salt. Same with drugs. Americans love their food, alcohol and drugs like no one else! So THE AMERICANS are the source of the drug problem. And they brought it here, to Canada. We are not the problem.

But along your lines... are you saying this "opioid crisis" isn't just a drummed up excuse for Trump to invoke Acts so he can take control from Congress and the Senate and vest it in the Oval Office?

 

[SchlongConery]

These tactics aren’t new. Trump learned them early on from his lawyers Roy Cohn using delay, inconvenience, and frustration as weapons. The strategy is simple: stall, annoy, and exhaust the opposition until they give up. Delay, delay, delay, and make them pay with time.

You are so right.

 

[SchlongConery]

He's got yuuuge legal problems.

First, large quantities of fentanyl don't come from Canada and the burden to show that they do is on him.

Second, a judge is going to say that the remedy is to set up more efficient and powerful law enforcement cooperation, and not imposing tariffs.

Third, a judge is going to say that he was fatally remiss in not going to Congress before seeking to use his emergency powers to write and EO.

Fourth, a judge is going to say that sometimes deficits are just simply that and can't be rectified and have to be lived with.

Fifth, a judge is going to say that his remedy is to use the arbitration clauses under NAFTA to discuss the trade imbalance, not to simply breach NAFTA unilaterally.

This EO is gonna be toast as soon as it gets in front of a judge.

What Court or jurisdiction would have authority? And who would have status to bring an action?