Trump ready to use American military on US soil. - So much to do before January 21st.

[Valcazar]

If laws are just "words on paper", then he can murder someone and not get charged?

Yes.
But that's not a "words on paper" situation in that case.
The Supreme Court explicitly ruled that he can murder and not be charged.

The PCA is pretty clear.

It is.

“Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.”

This is why he is talking about emergency declarations and the insurrection act, alien enemies act, and so on.
He can, also, clearly just demand Congress pass a law letting him use the military for this.
Given the general spinelessness of the GOP, I wouldn't expect them to say no.

He can do it with the mildest of fig leaves.
The question of how much he even thinks he needs fig leaves in his second term remains unknown.

But it's not an "emergency". There have been millions of illegal migrants in the USA for decades.

So what?
"That just shows people weren't treating it as the emergency it is."
See how easy this all is?

 

[squeezer]

I dunno, when the chinese MAGA hats go up $20 because of the tariffs they might start clueing in.

Let me put it this way, do you believe Mitch will turn on Trump if he has to pay an extra $20 for another MAGA hat?

 

[Valcazar]

The "how" is the most important question and has nothing to do with Trump. I've given you a suggestion. Clearly the current administration wants an increase in effort. So that means increased budget and manpower.

Spending money on it isn't an obstacle, in his mind.

Asked about the cost of his plan, he said, "It’s not a question of a price tag. It’s not — really, we have no choice. When people have killed and murdered, when drug lords have destroyed countries, and now they’re going to go back to those countries because they’re not staying here. There is no price tag."

(https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...no-price-tag-mass-deportation-plan-rcna179178)

 

[Skoob]

Hey Mr. Strawman meet the epitome of a Straw man argument below:

Epic faceplant post in addition to delivering repeated 360-degree haymakers to oneself.

Looks to me that you don't know what a strawman argument is.
You can go back to eating crayons now.

 

[Skoob]

Or just read your previous post.

Says the guy who doesn't know what a strawman argument is and rather than addressing his failed argument, he focuses on something else as a distraction.

 

[Skoob]

Wanting to deal with illegal immigration or border security is different from specific support for mass deportations.
Even I support reducing illegal immigration and strengthening border security.
Doesn't mean I support mass deportations.
Dealing with illegal immigration and border security does not have to result in a humanitarian crisis.

He campaigned on the fact that there would be mass deportations. The majority of the American voting public supported him as that was his primary campaign message.
If there are millions of illegal immigrants and he will work on deporting them, then can't that be described as a "mass deportation"?

You seem afflicted by particular words rather than the overall context.

 

[richaceg]

Wanting to deal with illegal immigration or border security is different from specific support for mass deportations.
Even I support reducing illegal immigration and strengthening border security.
Doesn't mean I support mass deportations.
Dealing with illegal immigration and border security does not have to result in a humanitarian crisis.

the "humanitarian crisis" happened, does that excuse people from just crossing the border illegally? since when can't you not be deported from illegally crossing the border? this is the logic that destroys countries that enjoy the freedom of being in a democracy. over a million illegal immigrants is putting a strain on the economy. feeding and housing individuals who don't contribute (doesn't pay taxes even if they work). I wish I could work and not pay taxes...

 

[mandrill]

It is.

“Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.”

This is why he is talking about emergency declarations and the insurrection act, alien enemies act, and so on.
He can, also, clearly just demand Congress pass a law letting him use the military for this.
Given the general spinelessness of the GOP, I wouldn't expect them to say no.

He can do it with the mildest of fig leaves.
The question of how much he even thinks he needs fig leaves in his second term remains unknown.
So what?
"That just shows people weren't treating it as the emergency it is."
See how easy this all is?

He can't get 2/3 in the Senate and might well not get a majority in the House. He only has to lose a handful of GOP votes in the House on an issue of high principal that affects states' rights to lose.

 

[Valcazar]

He can't get 2/3 in the Senate and might well not get a majority in the House. He only has to lose a handful of GOP votes in the House on an issue of high principal that affects states' rights to lose.

He doesn't need 2/3 in the Senate (even if they didn't circumvent the filibuster, he would need 60 votes).

That's also only necessary if they decide they need a new law.
The Alien Enemies act and the Insurrection act are already laws.

Look, as Gaetz dropping out shows, he isn't going to win everything he tries.
But you really need to stop thinking "the rules say this therefore he can't do it" is an argument that holds any water.
Trump will try to do what he wants to do, regardless of the rules.
There is no magic force field stopping him because "it's not supposed to work that way".
He will be stopped if people manage to stop him.
That's it.

If you want to say you are sure he won't be able to deploy military troops to aid in deportation, that's fine.
But confidently saying it can't happen because Posse Comitatus is just you wishcasting.

 

[speakercontrols]

at least Trump wants to use it against illegal immigrants

ya.....I suspect there are bigger issues with using the military on native (heh) soil

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

the "humanitarian crisis" happened, does that excuse people from just crossing the border illegally? since when can't you not be deported from illegally crossing the border? this is the logic that destroys countries that enjoy the freedom of being in a democracy. over a million illegal immigrants is putting a strain on the economy. feeding and housing individuals who don't contribute (doesn't pay taxes even if they work). I wish I could work and not pay taxes...

Illegal immigration is a complex issue.
Not as simple as deporting someone because they did not have papers.
Many of them have lived in the country for decades.
There are recipients of programs like DACA.
A lot of them are upstanding citizens.
If someone has stayed here, for decades then instead of creating a humanitarian crisis ripping apart families, come up with a way to give them legal status.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Says the guy who doesn't know what a strawman argument is and rather than addressing his failed argument, he focuses on something else as a distraction.

If you knew what a strawman argument was, you would have recognized your own strawman argument.
Guess you were busy with your mental gymnastics.

 

[richaceg]

Illegal immigration is a complex issue.
Not as simple as deporting someone because they did not have papers.
Many of them have lived in the country for decades.
There are recipients of programs like DACA.
A lot of them are upstanding citizens.
If someone has stayed here, for decades then instead of creating a humanitarian crisis ripping apart families, come up with a way to give them legal status.

It's as simple as applying legally through the border...everyone knows that's the process...

 

[Bucktee]

Illegal immigration is a complex issue.

It's not.

Not as simple as deporting someone because they did not have papers.

It really is that simple.

Many of them have lived in the country for decades.

Breaking the law for decades is even more reason to deport.

There are recipients of programs like DACA.
A lot of them are upstanding citizens.

They're not citizens. That's the point.

You might be an upstanding individual in all respects (other than the fact that you criminally invaded another country), but that won't grant you citizenship anywhere in the world.

And if they're so upstanding, their home countries will be happy to have them back.

If someone has stayed here, for decades then instead of creating a humanitarian crisis ripping apart families, come up with a way to give them legal status.

So you want to reward criminal behaviour while punishing those who try to enter legally and have to wait?

Any "crisis" was the making of the illegal alien. They knew the risk when entering illegally and staying illegally.

 

[richaceg]

Illegal immigration is a complex issue.
Not as simple as deporting someone because they did not have papers.
Many of them have lived in the country for decades.
There are recipients of programs like DACA.
A lot of them are upstanding citizens.
If someone has stayed here, for decades then instead of creating a humanitarian crisis ripping apart families, come up with a way to give them legal status.

You know illegal immigrants don't hold green card and doesn't pay taxes right? they mostly get paid in cash (convenience of cheap labor) so what do they really contribute? "picking vegetables and fruits" is not an excuse. they also put a strain on hospital and social services including law enforcement. at the end of the day, government services for citizens shouldn't cover them but they still benefit off it...

 

[PeterParker1000]

Some blue states will resist. This is when Trump can shut off funding for states not obeying. Unless blue states will do this on their own, military is required. They will take them and ship them out. No empathy for non citizens who are here illegally in this administration. Refugee status is also not in play as most aren’t refugees, even if they lied and filled it out like that in their app.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

So you want to reward criminal behaviour while punishing those who try to enter legally and have to wait?

It is not punishing legal immigrants to deal with a complex problem humanely and sensibly.

 

[richaceg]

It is not punishing legal immigrants to deal with a complex problem humanely and sensibly.

less illegal immigrants (they don't pay taxes) less strain to the economy. it's all relative.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

.....so what do they really contribute?...

They play in the economy.
Buy and use products and services.
That generates sales tax, property taxes, revenue and GDP growth.
They work in very low wage jobs that Americans cannot or wont work in. 5% of America's workforce relies on their labour.
They do pay taxes.
About 10 year old data but gives you an idea.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/adding-billions-tax-dollars-paid-undocumented-immigrants

According to ITEP’s estimates, which do not count federal taxes, undocumented immigrants paid $11.6 billion in state and local taxes in 2013. This includes:
$7 billion in sales taxes,
$1.1 billion in income taxes, and
$3.6 billion in property taxes

Another link:

How Does Immigration Affect the U.S. Economy?

Presidential candidates Harris and Trump differ sharply on the benefits of immigration for the U.S. economy. What role do immigrants play?

www.cfr.org

Undocumented immigrants’ spending power totaled more than $254 billion in 2022, and undocumented households had a combined income of $330 billion—paying nearly $76 billion in taxes.

Economic impact of mass deportations:

The Peterson Institute for International Economics estimates [PDF] that the deportation of between 1.3 and 8.3 million undocumented immigrants would reduce U.S. real gross domestic product (GDP) by up to 7 percent by 2028, as well as significantly decrease U.S. employment, increase inflation, and drive down demand.

The human impact is more severe.
Basically, bad idea.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

less illegal immigrants (they don't pay taxes) less strain to the economy. it's all relative.

Not true, see above.