War on Safety: Car Drivers Rejoice! First Bike Lanes, Now This.

GameBoy27

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Nov 23, 2004
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Whatever.

What a bunch of regurgitated war on the car nonsense, > "more traffic congestion, gridlock, more pollution, delay fire, ambulance and police vehicles, paralyze a city", garbage.

Parkside Drive is the epitome of a dangerous wild, wild, west inner-city speedway for motorists that needs to be calmed, controlled and made safe for everyone.
Ah yes, the old "delay fire, ambulance and police vehicles" garbage. But don't take it from me, or the cops and firefighters I know, who all say the same thing.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-n...ces-in-heavy-traffic-toronto-paramedics-union

So says Mike Merriman, the Unit Chair, Paramedic Services, CUPE Local 416 after viewing a viral video posted on X, formerly Twitter, by user @markrmcqueen, on Dec. 18 showing an ambulance delayed at the Toronto intersection of Yonge St. and Macpherson Ave., south of Summerhill TTC Station, due to cars and one big truck unable to get out of the way because of the bike lanes.

“A picture or in this case, a video, is worth a thousand words,” said Merriman. “Confirming, that such bike lanes, with dividing barriers, drastically impair paramedics ability to respond to life threatening calls during heavy traffic.”

In his X post with the video, McQueen wrote: “Thanks to the Yonge St. bike lanes, this ambulance wasted 30 valuable seconds at a single intersection. There was no where for the cars to pull off to. There are dozens of intersections coming up. If it’s your family member waiting for a defibrillator, I can’t imagine.”


McQueen told the Sun he’s not opposed to bike lanes in the city, just the poor planning and execution of bike lanes.

Bike lanes are good, just not on every thoroughfare. Traffic need to flow as well, and that includes emergency vehicles.
 
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GameBoy27

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On an e bike now for commuting. Totally agree on the idiots on bikes, scooters, those e-unicycles. The ones with no reflectors, lights, dressed in dark clothing on dark paths.

I plan to use mine until ice hits. Then it will be dangerous, too cold, and salt water and Lithium batteries don't mix.

I think e-bike usage is going to increase. Alot. My cost was about $1600 with accessories/new tires and weather clothing. And only costs about $.005/mile in Electricity to charge.

So 10 months of no transit amortization pays it off. Faster commute too!
That's great, I'm glad it works for you. I've been cycling in this city for over 50 years and the number of bike lanes these days is great. I remember when there wasn't a single bike lane in the city, but somehow we all survived. Which is what drives me nuts about all the cycling zealots these days. But the reality is, it's only a viable mode for a very small percentage of the population, weather permitting.

If I have to ride on a street without a bike lane, I keep to the right and pay attention to my surroundings. I also wear a helmet, front and rear lights and a reflective vest at all times, both day and night. I also don't put myself in vulnerable situations, do stupid things and relying on drivers to have to avoid colliding with me. When I'm driving, I see so many clueless cyclists, constantly putting themselves in danger. It truly boggles my mind. I'm amazed there's not more hit every day.

I'm still pretty fit and have no problem going for 50 km bike rides. But I'm sure the day will come when steep hills become too difficult. At that point, I'll consider getting an e-bike.
 
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Butler1000

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That's great, I'm glad it works for you. I've been cycling in this city for over 50 years and the number of bike lanes these days is great. I remember when there wasn't a single bike lane in the city, but somehow we all survived. Which is what drives me nuts about all the cycling zealots these days. But the reality is, it's only a viable mode for a very small percentage of the population, weather permitting.

If I have to ride on a street without a bike lane, I keep to the right and pay attention to my surroundings. I also wear a helmet, front and rear lights and a reflective vest at all times, both day and night. I also don't put myself in vulnerable situations, do stupid things and relying on drivers to have to avoid colliding with me. When I'm driving, I see so many clueless cyclists, constantly putting themselves in danger. It truly boggles my mind. I'm amazed there's not more hit every day.

I'm still pretty fit and have no problem going for 50 km bike rides. But I'm sure the day will come when steep hills become too difficult. At that point, I'll consider getting an e-bike.
They do work. Get a 750 watt engine and it will get you anywhere. I have about a 35 mile range. 6 hour charge time. More than enough for commute. Has the 32k speed inhibitor but honestly you don't need more even on places like the Martin Goodman trail and it's straightaways. It maintains top speed on a 25 degree incline. Weighs about 70 pounds.
 
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superstar_88

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Due to bad drivers, some of them drunk, they should remove more car lanes goes the argument that there are bad cyclists
 

Frankfooter

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No, a bike lane in itself doesn't cause traffic, but if you can't figure out that eliminating a lane of traffic on major thoroughfares doesn't increase traffic congestion, then I can't help you.

Bike lanes do get some people out of their cars, but come the winter months and when it's raining, the numbers are few and far between. The city cherry picked a few nice days to back up their claim that many people are using them. Balance on Bloor took 24/7 - 365 video of the bike lanes on Bloor, counted how many cyclists used them each day along a stretch of Bloor and told the city they were welcome to the data. The city wasn't interested, likely because it would prove them wrong.

News flash Franky, not everyone can ride a bike and for the most part, people will only ride when the situation suits them. Like when the weather is nice, for recreation or to go a short distance. It's not a year-round viable mode of transportation for the masses. And for that reason, it makes sense to have some bike lanes, but not on every major street as this city seems hell-bent on doing.

I cycle several times a week in many areas of the city. I'm thrilled with all the bike lanes we have, but there's several streets where they don't make sense.

I also find the conduct of many fellow cyclists simply appalling. I heard 6 cyclists have dies in Toronto this year. Based on the number of cyclists I see riding without a helmet, disregarding all the rules of the road, riding at night and wearing all black, I'm actually surprised the number is so low. They also won't mention is how many cyclists were at fault in a collision, as this would go against their narrative.

Before you nutcases attack me, remember, I'm also an avid cyclist. I just have no sympathy for all the idiots out here and the zealots who think cyclists can do no wrong.
Of course not everyone can or will bike. Its about getting more people out of cars, which hog more space on the roads, and more onto bikes, which take up less space.
Bikes make cities safer, car deaths go down with more cycling. Businesses do better.

Car drivers break as many or even more laws as cyclists, speeding, not stopping at stop signs, illegal parking, bad signalling.....

Here's the new news and the new kickers.
1) DoFo's law to kill bike lanes also makes it impossible for the cons to be sued for the people that die because of this new law. DoFo knows it will kill people so he's trying to protect himself.


2) DoFo's own government report says cutting bike lanes will make traffic worse and kill people.

“This initiative may not reduce congestion as most research (e.g. New York, Washington, Vancouver) suggests reducing road capacity by introducing bike lanes can encourage biking and discourage car use, alleviating congestion,” reads an internal government document created in the summer.
 

GameBoy27

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They do work. Get a 750 watt engine and it will get you anywhere. I have about a 35 mile range. 6 hour charge time. More than enough for commute. Has the 32k speed inhibitor but honestly you don't need more even on places like the Martin Goodman trail and it's straightaways. It maintains top speed on a 25 degree incline. Weighs about 70 pounds.
I know, they're great. I've ridden all sorts of them, but I honestly get more exercise walking to my car. lol

I play sports 2-3 time a week and cycle a few times a week (weather permitting) as well. For now, I prefer the workout I get from my pedal bike. I'll get an e-bike, one day...
 
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GameBoy27

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Car drivers break as many or even more laws as cyclists, speeding, not stopping at stop signs, illegal parking, bad signalling.....
You're joking, right? If we were to place a bet and stand at any downtown intersection to count the number of cyclists vs. drivers who break the law in any given hour, you'd lose large. That is, if you include all the cyclists who run red lights, don't signal, ride on the sidewalk and every scooter and EUC, as they're all illegal in the first place.

But more to your point, driver's can be held accountable, as they're subject to fines for speeding, running red lights, not stopping at stop signs, illegal parking, not signaling, etc. Cyclists OTOH, not so much...
 
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Frankfooter

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You're joking, right? If we were to place a bet and stand at any downtown intersection to count the number of cyclists vs. drivers who break the law in any given hour, you'd lose large. That is, if you include all the cyclists who run red lights, don't signal, ride on the sidewalk and every scooter and EUC, as they're all illegal in the first place.

But more to your point, driver's can be held accountable, as they're subject to fines for speeding, running red lights, not stopping at stop signs, illegal parking, not signaling, etc. Cyclists OTOH, not so much...
That'd be a fair bet.
But you'd have to count rolling stops, speeding, looking at phones and bad signalling. If you did it would likely be equal.
I bike and drive, I've seen both.

Drivers have to be held accountable, when they break the laws they put others at risk, cyclists largely just put themselves at risk.
Cops have been ticketing cyclists for years.

The question remains, why is DoFo making changes that he clearly thinks will kill people?
 

Anbarandy

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Apr 27, 2006
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Ah yes, the old "delay fire, ambulance and police vehicles" garbage. But don't take it from me, or the cops and firefighters I know, who all say the same thing.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-n...ces-in-heavy-traffic-toronto-paramedics-union

So says Mike Merriman, the Unit Chair, Paramedic Services, CUPE Local 416 after viewing a viral video posted on X, formerly Twitter, by user @markrmcqueen, on Dec. 18 showing an ambulance delayed at the Toronto intersection of Yonge St. and Macpherson Ave., south of Summerhill TTC Station, due to cars and one big truck unable to get out of the way because of the bike lanes.

“A picture or in this case, a video, is worth a thousand words,” said Merriman. “Confirming, that such bike lanes, with dividing barriers, drastically impair paramedics ability to respond to life threatening calls during heavy traffic.”

In his X post with the video, McQueen wrote: “Thanks to the Yonge St. bike lanes, this ambulance wasted 30 valuable seconds at a single intersection. There was no where for the cars to pull off to. There are dozens of intersections coming up. If it’s your family member waiting for a defibrillator, I can’t imagine.”


McQueen told the Sun he’s not opposed to bike lanes in the city, just the poor planning and execution of bike lanes.

Bike lanes are good, just not on every thoroughfare. Traffic need to flow as well, and that includes emergency vehicles.
Yesh, let's listen to all these "cops and firefighters" you claim to know and of course who, quelle surprise, "all say the same thing" as you do.

And yesh squared, let's all listen to Doug Ford, who rants, "everywhere I go, everyone I see, every cop, firefighter and paramedic comes up to me and says, "bike lanes, bike lanes, bike lanes. Get rid of 'em Doug because peeps are dying from here to Timbuktu, cause we can't get there to save 'em!"

Yesh let's listen to you, your alleged squad of cop and firefighter friends, and Doug culture wars politicking instead of:


Toronto Deputy Fire Chief Jim Jessop had appeared to settle the issue of emergency response times at a public meeting held in October, organized by local councillor Amber Morley (Ward 3, Etobicoke-Lakeshore), when he cited two statistics that show an improvement in response times in the ward.

Jessop said TFS was able to establish an effective firefighting force — which means getting the right number of trucks and firefighters to the scene at locations throughout the ward within a specified time frame — 89 per cent of the time before the bike lanes went in on Bloor Street West in Etobicoke, and 93 per cent of the time in 2024, after the bike lanes went in.

He also said there was almost no difference in how often the fire department was able to get first trucks to the scene in the required amount of time — TFS met the standard 70 per cent of the time in the ward in 2022, before the bike lanes, and 71 per cent of the time in the ward after the bike lanes.
 
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Leimonis

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I know, they're great. I've ridden all sorts of them, but I honestly get more exercise walking to my car. lol

I play sports 2-3 time a week and cycle a few times a week (weather permitting) as well. For now, I prefer the workout I get from my pedal bike. I'll get an e-bike, one day...
you don't have to use the motor if you feel like exercising on an e-bike. I just keep mine turned off unless I am in a hurry or going uphill
 
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Anbarandy

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you don't have to use the motor if you feel like exercising on an e-bike. I just keep mine turned off unless I am in a hurry or going uphill
Or you can get a motor vehicle to drag your freshly knocked off your e-bike, battered carcass and the remnants of your e-bike to get ya where ya going once the removal of bike lanes take place and the inevitable Doug Ford's real motor vehicle war on the bike kicks into high gear.
 

Leimonis

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Or you can get a motor vehicle to drag your freshly knocked off your e-bike, battered carcass and the remnants of your e-bike to get ya where ya going once the removal of bike lanes take place and the inevitable Doug Ford's real motor vehicle war on the bike kicks into high gear.
1732562745175.png
 

GameBoy27

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Yesh, let's listen to all these "cops and firefighters" you claim to know and of course who, quelle surprise, "all say the same thing" as you do.

And yesh squared, let's all listen to Doug Ford, who rants, "everywhere I go, everyone I see, every cop, firefighter and paramedic comes up to me and says, "bike lanes, bike lanes, bike lanes. Get rid of 'em Doug because peeps are dying from here to Timbuktu, cause we can't get there to save 'em!"

Yesh let's listen to you, your alleged squad of cop and firefighter friends, and Doug culture wars politicking instead of:


Toronto Deputy Fire Chief Jim Jessop had appeared to settle the issue of emergency response times at a public meeting held in October, organized by local councillor Amber Morley (Ward 3, Etobicoke-Lakeshore), when he cited two statistics that show an improvement in response times in the ward.

Jessop said TFS was able to establish an effective firefighting force — which means getting the right number of trucks and firefighters to the scene at locations throughout the ward within a specified time frame — 89 per cent of the time before the bike lanes went in on Bloor Street West in Etobicoke, and 93 per cent of the time in 2024, after the bike lanes went in.

He also said there was almost no difference in how often the fire department was able to get first trucks to the scene in the required amount of time — TFS met the standard 70 per cent of the time in the ward in 2022, before the bike lanes, and 71 per cent of the time in the ward after the bike lanes.
According to my firefighter buddies, yes they do actually exist, what Chief Jessop was referencing was response times in the entire ward, not specifically along that particular stretch of Bloor west.

I'm curious, can someone post this recent article in The Star? It's only available to subscribers.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/to...cle_45978edc-a6a2-11ef-b3f2-4f266839ddf7.html
 
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Anbarandy

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Doug Ford blamed bike lanes on Bloor, University and Yonge for causing the motor vehicle traffic congestion around the Scotia Bank arena area on Sunday.

It was wall to wall, bumper to bumper, intersection gridlock to intersection gridlock motorized vehicle mayhem down there.
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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Whatever.

What a bunch of regurgitated war on the car nonsense, > "more traffic congestion, gridlock, more pollution, delay fire, ambulance and police vehicles, paralyze a city", garbage.

Parkside Drive is the epitome of a dangerous wild, wild, west inner-city speedway for motorists that needs to be calmed, controlled and made safe for everyone.
Except what you insultingly refer to as "a bunch of regurgitated war on the car nonsense" is true. You people pop off every time more rational heads list the problems caused by the bike lanes.

Example: I was at Yonge and Eglinton last week, visiting The Old She-Baboon, my aged mother . TOSB has lived around Y&E for over 40 years. I have NEVER seen bikes being ridden along Eglinton or on any of the streets in that area. It's simply not "bike country".

The city has built fledgling bike lanes along Eglinton on both sides of Yonge for a couple of blocks. There are no bikes. For as far as the eye can see. Look over to Avenue and there are no bikes. None. Ditto towards Mt Pleasant.

But traffic is now reduced to 1 lane along Eg in either direction and it's now backed up for a couple of lights.

And when The Mandrill-Sister tried to drop TOSB off for a doctor's appointment along Eg east of Yonge, it couldn't be done because there was only 1 lane of traffic.

The bike lanes aren't suitable for midtown and - let's face it - they work for young, fit people without families who are not shopping or running errands or traveling for more than a mile or so. And they're seasonal.

If you and your bike-tard friends stopped insulting everyone who points these facts out to you, the world would be a better place.
 

mitchell76

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According to my firefighter buddies, yes they do actually exist, what Chief Jessop was referencing was response times in the entire ward, not specifically along that particular stretch of Bloor west.

I'm curious, can someone post this recent article in The Star? It's only available to subscribers.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/to...cle_45978edc-a6a2-11ef-b3f2-4f266839ddf7.html

Toronto Fire worried Bloor bike lanes would slow response times, documents reveal
The decision to install temporary bike lanes during COVID — most became permanent — seemed to come as a surprise at the time to the then-fire chief.
Nov. 25, 2024
5 min read
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Bloor

Data used to show the effect of Bloor West bike lanes on emergency response times has been flawed, critics say.
Michelle Mengsu Chang/Toronto Star

Francine-Kopun
By Francine KopunSenior Writer

Toronto Fire Services officials were concerned that bike lanes, including lanes on Bloor Street West in Etobicoke, would slow emergency response times, and conducted internal research that supported those concerns, according to documents released to the Toronto Star.
The decision to install temporary bike lanes during COVID — most of which became permanent — seemed to come as a surprise at the time to then-fire chief Matthew Pegg, according to an email he sent to City of Toronto transportation chief Barbara Gray on May 25, 2020, after learning about the lanes on CP24 that morning.
“Have we had the opportunity to analyze the impacts to emergency response travel times, both now and under “normal” traffic conditions,” he asked Gray, Toronto’s general manager of transportation services.

“Are these lanes intended to remain in place moving forward or will this be cancelled once traffic starts back up?”
Gray responded that the routes weren’t exactly news — they were in the city’s 10-year cycling plan and the three-year implementation strategy — but admitted the city had not conducted the same kind of consultations it would normally conduct when implementing bike lanes.
“The piece that did not happen is the typical door-to-door style consultation that we do with businesses and residents,” she wrote in response to Pegg’s email.
In the fierce debate about bike lanes on Bloor Street West in Etobicoke, between Runnymede and Resurrection roads, few angles have been more hotly contested than whether bike lanes have affected TFS emergency response times. The question of whether Toronto Fire was properly informed and consulted about bike lanes has also been raised.
Premier Doug Ford weighed in on the matter on Friday, when he told reporters at an event in Hamilton that concerns he’s heard from first responders are one reason his government has decided to remove bike lanes on three major arteries in Toronto, including Bloor West in Etobicoke, Yonge Street and University Avenue.


“When the firefighters jump in their trucks and they’re trying to go down University and they’re jammed behind traffic if they can’t get there to save lives — or they’re trying to go down Bloor Street and it’s absolutely backed up from here to Timbuktu or Yonge Street — that doesn’t make sense at all,” said Ford.
“I’ve always believed that you don’t put (bike lanes) on main arterial roads, you put them on secondary roads so you don’t jam up the main roads.”
Toronto Deputy Fire Chief Jim Jessop had appeared to settle the issue of emergency response times at a public meeting held in October, organized by local councillor Amber Morley (Ward 3, Etobicoke-Lakeshore), when he cited two statistics that show an improvement in response times in the ward.
Jessop said TFS was able to establish an effective firefighting force — which means getting the right number of trucks and firefighters to the scene at locations throughout the ward within a specified time frame — 89 per cent of the time before the bike lanes went in on Bloor Street West in Etobicoke, and 93 per cent of the time in 2024, after the bike lanes went in.
He also said there was almost no difference in how often the fire department was able to get first trucks to the scene in the required amount of time — TFS met the standard 70 per cent of the time in the ward in 2022, before the bike lanes, and 71 per cent of the time in the ward after the bike lanes.


Supporters of the bike lanes cheered the data, and have cited it as proof that bike lanes don’t cause delays for TFS emergency vehicles. Skeptics pointed out that improvements in response times across an entire ward reveal little about response times in a specific area.
Email exchanges between fire officials and city staff and internal research conducted by Toronto Fire Services and obtained by the Star under freedom-of-information laws seem to indicate that TFS was not kept in the loop at all times when it came to bike lanes, and that senior TFS staff had concerns the bike lanes would adversely affect emergency response times.
The FOI documents also reveal that TFS conducted internal research that found delays in areas where bike lanes had previously been installed, and predicted similar delays if they were extended along Bloor Street West in Etobicoke.
“There will likely be an effect on emergency response to and through this area compared to the existing conditions,” wrote Capt. Rob Mezzapelli, the TFS officer in the Emergency Planning Division tasked with looking into the issue, in an email to colleagues in August 2022.
The TFS data analytics department developed a methodology for doing an impact analysis of response times. The report compared the change in total response times along Bloor Street West between Shaw Street and Runnymede Road before and after bike lanes, in an effort to predict what might happen to emergency response times between Runnymede Road and Resurrection Road in Etobicoke if bike lanes were extended into that area.


The report found that total response times increased in the area between Shaw and Runnymede along Bloor West, before and after the bike lanes, but that the increase was roughly the same as an increase in response time across the city — about six per cent. Total response times count all the minutes, from the moment a call is received to the arrival of units at the scene. This is a variable that can be affected by changes that have nothing to do with actual travel times — for example, where a fire hall keeps the printer and maps, can affect total response times.
The internal TFS report also concluded that the amount of time it takes trucks to travel from the station to the scene of the alarm — the amount of time spent on the road — did increase after the bike lanes were installed on Bloor between Shaw and Runnymede.
It found that between 2019 and 2022, travel times inside the bike lane area increased 52 seconds, from 257 seconds to 309 seconds. Events outside the area saw an increase in travel times of 40 seconds, from 322 seconds to 362 seconds.
“Travel time is increasing at a slightly higher rate in the 2020 extension area compared with events not occurring in the 2020 extension area,” the report concluded.
After reviewing the report, Mezzapelli expressed concerns that extending the bike lanes into Etobicoke would, in fact, increase emergency response times there.

“Looking at these projects from an emergency response perspective, I feel it is safe to say that implementing the changes mentioned above (installing bike lanes from Runnymede Road to Resurrection Road in Etobicoke) may have an impact on slowing response times and in certain situations may make truck turning manoeuvres more challenging,” Mezzapelli wrote in an email on Feb. 1, 2023, to colleagues.
In response to questions from the Star about the study, a TFS spokesperson said: “This analysis was based on a small geographical area which represented a relatively small sample size, compared to ward or city level, which has less variability.
“TFS is unable to isolate a specific cause for travel time increases due to a wide variety of variables (e.g., weather, construction, motor vehicle collisions, traffic, to name a few).
“Since the 2023 report, TFS has continually refined how this data is reported given smaller data sets have greater variability. Recently, in 2024, there was an Interim Condition Data Update by Transportation Services for the Bloor Street West Complete Street Extension which included updated emergency response time data.” That data also shows an increase in emergency travel times — from October to December 2023, travel time for the first arriving truck at an incident increased 30 seconds compared over the same time period in 2022, while citywide it increased by two seconds.
Etobicoke Centre Coun. Stephen Holyday says the stats Jessop used at the meeting may have been reassuring to the public, but they don’t mirror what people see when they’re on the road — emergency response vehicles stuck in traffic.


“People couldn’t square it up,” said Holyday.
“That’s central to this discussion and why the public are so irate.”
With files from Robert Benzie
 
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