Black Lives Matter says Dems are 'party of hypocrites' for 'installing' Harris sans 'public voting process'

[Valcazar]

Um, can you try reading?

2 more total.

There has been one agreed to and Trump proposed another.
Then you said 2 more total.

You have now clarified that you agree with Trump's most recent proposal of three total.
So all good.

Show me where I said "Trump rally" or even an audience?

The Trump rally is the one he proposed and you said Harris should do it.

I think they should coordinate a mix of moderators. 3 in total. And free broadcast on all platforms no commercials.

Trump's proposal should make you happy then.
It seems his pitch is three debates on three different networks and he won't back out of the ABC one he already agreed to.

No idea if that will happen, given negotiations for the other two aren't likely to be easy and time is running out, but you never know.

I know the last thing you want is Harris up there without a teleprompter.

Why wouldn't I want that?

 

[Valcazar]

It's amazing you think it's about me. It's about talking to the American people.

This is about you.
This is about your personal preference for what she does.
I'm not posting to "the American people".

I don't blame you for not wanting this. She isn't very good at it, is she, when she actually has to think on her feet, without a safety net.

Yes, you've made it clear that you want a "gotcha" moment for her that Trump can campaign on and the press can run with.
It's why you won't accept any press interaction that doesn't produce that for you as valid.

 

[Valcazar]

In 2016, Trump beat Clinton with 8% of the black vote. Clinton had 89%.

In 2020 black support for Trump went up to 12%.

I don't think those numbers are quite correct.
I think the most accurate we have are the Pew verified numbers and those were 6% in 2016 and 8% in 2020.

But that they went up is undisputed, I think.

Why do you think black support for Trump has been increasing?
Why does Harris have less black support compared to Hillary?

Hmmmm.....

Black support for Democrats has been drifting down from its record high for Obama's first election.
Just as white support for Republicans has also been drifting down for a while since the major shift in white voting preferences after the Civil Rights Act.

Will Trump pull 20% of the black vote?
I still think that's unlikely, but I think he can get in double digits.

 

[Valcazar]

That is ambitious. I don't think it would be close to that. And considering the number of black women who would NEVER vote Trump, I think all of this is moot. Trump will not get a significant number of black voters to really help him where he needs it.

Trump has always done better with men than women, and that includes Black Men.

I think 20% of the Black vote is high, but I could see Trump getting there with Black men.

 

[Butler1000]

This is about you.
This is about your personal preference for what she does.
I'm not posting to "the American people".



Yes, you've made it clear that you want a "gotcha" moment for her that Trump can campaign on and the press can run with.
It's why you won't accept any press interaction that doesn't produce that for you as valid.

How is it a "Gotcha moment" if she fucks up all on her own?

 

[Valcazar]

Umm....did you now see how black support for Harris is surging.

How, pointing out how Hillary had nearly 90% support of black voters and won the popular vote but now the electoral college....That's an interesting phenomena. Especially since a large number of GOP led states have the most serious gerrymandered districts in the US. I'm not saying Dem states haven't done this...but not to the same extent.

Map shows most gerrymandered states

Which states employ the controversial practice of gerrymandering most? Newsweek has drawn up a map.

www.newsweek.com

Because of this gerrymandering, it diminishes the impact of black votes. It also shows why the GOP loses the popular vote in many states, yet clings to power.

It would be great if the various states had non-partisan maps, but I doubt that would happen anytime soon.

Gerrymandering has nothing to do with presidential elections, though.
The Electoral College is malapportioned, but that isn't due to gerrymandering. (Maybe in those two states that have electoral college votes by district, but that's negligible.)
The EC is done by state, and those can't be gerrymandered.
It massively over-represents empty, rural states which are predominantly white, but that's a different issue.

 

[Valcazar]

Being stupid is continuing to vote for one party who take you for granted.

And yet so many working class white people do.

 

[Valcazar]

We'll see how that all shakes out come November. But to say a significant number of black voters supports Trump is absolutely inane.

I think that depends a lot on what you consider "significant".

With black voter support for Democrats being so high, just about any move in Trump's direction can be "significant".
Think about the move from 6% to 8% -> That's a 33% increase. That sounds "significant".

This is one of those grey areas where even if I think people are overstating the actual final numbers we will see, I don't fault them for talking about it being significant.

YMMV.

 

[Valcazar]

How is it a "Gotcha moment" if she fucks up all on her own?

Because the point is to get a viral moment that can be used for the narrative.
That's why it is called a "gotcha" moment.
Whether it is an organic fuck up, a misrepresented clip, or just a trick question is largely irrelevant to it being a "gotcha".

Those might affect how well it works and how much legs it has, but that's it.

You are the one who's all about messaging, Butler, you know this already.

 

[Butler1000]

Because the point is to get a viral moment that can be used for the narrative.
That's why it is called a "gotcha" moment.
Whether it is an organic fuck up, a misrepresented clip, or just a trick question is largely irrelevant to it being a "gotcha".

Those might affect how well it works and how much legs it has, but that's it.

You are the one who's all about messaging, Butler, you know this already.

So why is showing her fucking up a bad thing? No primary so guess what, she gets vetted now.

 

[Butler1000]

And yet so many working class white people do.

I agree, 30% on both sides are so wedded they can't see past things.

 

[Skoob]

I don't think those numbers are quite correct.
I think the most accurate we have are the Pew verified numbers and those were 6% in 2016 and 8% in 2020.

But that they went up is undisputed, I think.



Black support for Democrats has been drifting down from its record high for Obama's first election.
Just as white support for Republicans has also been drifting down for a while since the major shift in white voting preferences after the Civil Rights Act.

Will Trump pull 20% of the black vote?
I still think that's unlikely, but I think he can get in double digits.

I googled the topic of black support for Trump since 2016. Lots of hits on that topic from mainstream sources.
I looked at the top 5 sources. That's where those numbers came from.

 

[Valcazar]

So why is showing her fucking up a bad thing?

It isn't a bad thing for the people who are strategizing to get it done, obviously.
You need a hook, and one that comes "organically" from a press gaggle is better than one you push yourself.
That's basic campaign tactics.

I'm not arguing against that.

No primary so guess what, she gets vetted now.

That's not "vetting".

 

[Butler1000]

It isn't a bad thing for the people who are strategizing to get it done, obviously.
You need a hook, and one that comes "organically" from a press gaggle is better than one you push yourself.
That's basic campaign tactics.

I'm not arguing against that.




That's not "vetting".

Yes it is vetting in that she really hasn't been questioned on her various positions. During primaries that usually gets laid out. Of course what we did know about her in 2020 caused her to back out before Iowa. So once again she needs to have her positions questioned.

That's a part of the process. I guess you forgot that or think it doesn't matter.

 

[bver_hunter]

BLM founder: Right-wing pro-Israel activists will cast Harris as antisemitic
Elad Nehorai and Patrisse Cullors warned that right-wing activists will try to undermine Kamala Harris’s presidential bid by accusing her of antisemitism.

BLM founder: Right-wing pro-Israel activists will cast Harris as antisemitic

Elad Nehorai and Patrisse Cullors warned that right-wing activists will try to undermine Kamala Harris’s presidential bid by accusing her of antisemitism.

www.jpost.com

 

[Frankfooter]

BLM founder: Right-wing pro-Israel activists will cast Harris as antisemitic
Elad Nehorai and Patrisse Cullors warned that right-wing activists will try to undermine Kamala Harris’s presidential bid by accusing her of antisemitism.

BLM founder: Right-wing pro-Israel activists will cast Harris as antisemitic

Elad Nehorai and Patrisse Cullors warned that right-wing activists will try to undermine Kamala Harris’s presidential bid by accusing her of antisemitism.

www.jpost.com

That's not really the leader of BLM and Harris is more worried about losing the youth of the party over her support of Israel.
That's where she needs to be concerned.

Yesterday she said she supports a ceasefire but dems are waiting for more.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1821566036354687289

 

[Valcazar]

I googled the topic of black support for Trump since 2016. Lots of hits on that topic from mainstream sources.
I looked at the top 5 sources. That's where those numbers came from.

:nod:

So probably wrong, then, as I thought.

Those would likely be news articles recently after the election, using notoriously incorrect exit polls.

Still.
The main point you are making is one we agree on - Trump's support went up and current evidence shows it will likely be up again.

 

[Valcazar]

Yes it is vetting in that she really hasn't been questioned on her various positions. During primaries that usually gets laid out. Of course what we did know about her in 2020 caused her to back out before Iowa. So once again she needs to have her positions questioned.

That's a part of the process. I guess you forgot that or think it doesn't matter.

But the press hasn't asked her about her policies.
When she gives them time, they ask about Trump.

But sure, people should ask her about her policies.
None of that requires the scenario you have concocted in your mind.

Luckily, she has 4 years of being in an Administration to point to concerning her policies.
So it isn't like she is starting from a blank slate here unless you have been not paying any attention.

 

[Butler1000]

But the press hasn't asked her about her policies.
When she gives them time, they ask about Trump.

But sure, people should ask her about her policies.
None of that requires the scenario you have concocted in your mind.

Luckily, she has 4 years of being in an Administration to point to concerning her policies.
So it isn't like she is starting from a blank slate here unless you have been not paying any attention.

Those aren't her policies? Or are you saying she is going to run every single thing the exact same way? Lonk please.

 

[Valcazar]

Yesterday she said she supports a ceasefire but dems are waiting for more.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1821566036354687289

Interesting.
This person has announced that Harris can't get her vote under any circumstances.

"And I will not be voting for Harris/Walz unless there is an arms embargo on Israel and an end to the horrific genocide in Palestine."

Since those are asks that cannot happen before the election, this is just a request for Harris to stop trying to court their vote.
Bad strategy.