The complexities of Sudan

Frankfooter

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However, it still fits perfectly with the criteria that you gave to prove genocide.

That is exactly what Hamas intended and accomplished on Oct.7.

You are talking about WHY Hamas intended to cause those deaths. It was their motivation.

Regardless of their motivation, their intent was to cause those Israeli deaths. And they succeeded. Motivation and intent are 2 different things. For example someone says "I hate person X." That is their motivation. Next is "I intend to do something to harm person X because I hate him and I'm going to key his car". That is their intent. Hate is the motivation and keying the car was the intent.

By your own parameters, Hamas perpetrated genocide on Oct.7.
Accuse those of what you do yourself. That was Goebbels strategy as well.

The UN investigated and they found only Israel is committing genocide.
That puts you on rare moral ground with the nazis.

The UN says Israel is committing genocide.

 

Frankfooter

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You are wrong. Read my post.

Their intent was retaliation. And their intent was to retaliate by murdering civilians. Via your own parameters, that was genocide. Those people on Oct.7 did not die accidentally. Hamas planned this attack months in advance. The killings were intentional.

Let's approach this another way. How did Hamas intend to retaliate? Hint: They showed us.
Now you're a mind reader?

Israel has been starving children to death slowly now for 5 months. They announced their intent on Oct 8 and continue block food.
That is the genocide you are actively defending here.

 

basketcase

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You posted Hamas saying they will settle for the two state solution.
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Try reading. They don't oppose a Palestinian state but reject peace with Israel as a permanent solution. And to be clear, nowhere do they say they'll accept a Two State peace.

If you need to go to the secondary clause of point 20 to ignore the preamble, clauses 2, 3, 12, 18, and 18...
 

basketcase

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...

On the other hand, here is the Likud charter calling for genocide of the Palestinians, and note this is where "From the River to the Sea" came about.
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Right. There's a reason why I'm against Likud. And thankfully Israel is a democracy where Likud is polling very poorly.

Now if you criticize Likud, why do you make excuses for hamas?
 

basketcase

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Their intent was not to cause deaths. Their intent was to retaliate. The retaliation resulted in whatever deaths it resulted in - about 600 or so. (The rest were killed as a result of the Hannibal Directive). So it is not genocide per the criteria I outlined.

Israel on the other hand, wanted to specifically kill and destroy Palestinians. So it is genocide.
Wow. You think Hamas' goal on the 7th wasn't to cause deaths? So all the practice they did with mock-ups of Israeli towns was practicing to not kill people?


Hamas' plan which they developed years ago was intended to target Jewish civilians for death and kidnapping. Probably the rape was individual choices.
 

basketcase

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That is terrorism. Intent for genocide is to kill a specific group of people to destroy them in whole or in part. Hamas wasn't looking to destroy Jews. They were attacking the state of Israel. So it is not genocidal. Israel's actions OTOH to wipe out Palestinians is.
How much of an idiot does one have to be to say hamas wasn't targeting Jews (and Israel expressly because it has a large Jewish population).
 

Frankfooter

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How much of an idiot does one have to be to say hamas wasn't targeting Jews (and Israel expressly because it has a large Jewish population).
Are you saying that the Israeli government and IDF don't represent Christians, Palestinians or Beduin?
You really think Israel is an ethno state that doesn't even represent the 20% who are Israeli Arab?

I don't think you've as clearly articulated how little you think of them before.
 

Frankfooter

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Some of us actually listen to what Hamas leaders say when they celebrate their actions, promise more, and say their goal is the elimination of the Jewish presence.
You mean like when you quoted the 2017 charter but ignored the part where they said they'd settle for the two state solution?
The same way you ignore when Netanyahu brags about stopping the two state solution and never letting it happen?

You love that.

Now Netanyahu is trying to ban Al J.
He killed as many journalists as he can find in Gaza already.

 

basketcase

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You mean like when you quoted the 2017 charter but ignored the part where they said they'd settle for the two state solution?
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Except they didn't. Even Al Jazeera's recent primer on Two States is clear they didn't.

They said they'd agree to a Palestinian state but they have been 100% clear they won't accept an Israeli state.
 
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basketcase

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One has to be an idiot to argue that Hamas attacked on October 7 solely to kill Jews....
Except their entire agenda is to remove the "zionist" presence and they trained attacking mockups of Israeli towns.

But you know everything so we can ignore the videos of them doing the training.



Like Russia, Hamas has given out a whole slew of excuses for their atrocities and you simply pick and choose which one you want to believe. You also intentionally ignore the public statements by Hamas leadership since the 7th that make clear their goal is continual violence until the Jews are gone.
 
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basketcase

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Are you saying that the Israeli government and IDF don't represent Christians, Palestinians or Beduin?
...
What does that have to do with Hamas clearly stating their goal is the removal of the Jewish presence and destruction of Israel? Oh that's right, you can't argue reality so you need to make up some idiotic connections. And the stupid part is those people you now admit exist prove that Israeli law applies to all Israelis regardless of ethnicity.


p.s. Hamas and the PA say their version of Palestine is an Islamic state ruled by Islamic law. No wonder those Arab Christians in Israel want to remain Israeli. Of course Muslim Israelis overwhelmingly want to remain Israeli too because they don't want insanely corrupt leaders like the PA or the corrupt nutjobs in Hamas in charge.
 
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mandrill

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One has to be an idiot to argue that Hamas attacked on October 7 solely to kill Jews. That would not only be convenient to deflect and distract from Israeli atrocities, that Hamas explicitly SAID they were retaliating against, but also an appeal to emotion leveraging Holocaust rhetoric. How much of a dum dum do you have to be, to argue that a nuclear armed nation, with state of the art weapons, is not just the victim, but the only victim around?
Correct. They raped, kidnapped and tortured Jews as well.
Yes, we know the majority of Israelis are Jewish. Hamas however, has explicitly stated reasons for October 7. You dont need to look any further than what Hamas themselves have admitted. Infact they have explicitly said attacking civilians was not even in the plan. You also forget many Israelis were actually killed by the IDF themselves via their employ of the Hannibal Directive. Israeli soldiers themselves who took part in that attack have admitted to it.
No, buddy. They were deliberately murdered by Hamas and random Gaza civilians. Hamas had been jerking off about raping and torturing Jewish women for years and now they got to actually do it in real life.

That's why 7 October happened. That's the only fucking reason. And to show the world that Hamas could get away with it and do it again and again and again......
 

Frankfooter

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Frankfooter

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What does that have to do with Hamas clearly stating their goal is the removal of the Jewish presence and destruction of Israel? Oh that's right, you can't argue reality so you need to make up some idiotic connections. And the stupid part is those people you now admit exist prove that Israeli law applies to all Israelis regardless of ethnicity.


p.s. Hamas and the PA say their version of Palestine is an Islamic state ruled by Islamic law. No wonder those Arab Christians in Israel want to remain Israeli. Of course Muslim Israelis overwhelmingly want to remain Israeli too because they don't want insanely corrupt leaders like the PA or the corrupt nutjobs in Hamas in charge.
Back to your standard 'but Hamas' nonsense.
Nothing Hamas has ever done is anywhere near as evil as the shit you back here.



 

shack

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That is terrorism. Intent for genocide is to kill a specific group of people to destroy them in whole or in part.
Their intent was to kill Israeli civilians i.e. a specific group of people. Genocide
 
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