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Israeli commandos do daring assassination hit of Hamas leaders on West Bank

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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I am consistent. Israel cannot declare war on a people - Palestinian civilians. They have and that is a war crime and genocide. But they can declare war on Hamas, which is a militant/terrorist group.
No, they can't legally declare war on Hamas.

A death squad is defined as an "armed group whose primary activity is carrying out extrajudicial killings or forced disappearances as part of political repression, genocide, ethnic cleansing, or revolutionary terror".

Per this definition, Hamas fighters were death squads.
Based on what acts? List the details and your reasons.


On the other hand, IDF killing Hamas, is not extrajudicial. IDF is engaged in war with Hamas, and therefore Hamas are enemy combatants. The due process rules do not apply against the party you are in war with.
The reports on Oct 7 say that Hamas killed about 3-400 IDF, those are enemy combatants. Of the 600 or so civilians its still unclear how many were killed by Israel using the Hannibal Directive (which also looks like death squads) and how many were killed by Hamas. That's why I support international investigations and charges rather than stating categorically one group are 'terrorists' and need to die.

They targeted Hamas. Apparently. Are they civilians or are they Hamas? If they are Hamas, it is a legitimate kill.
So if you say someone is 'Hamas' you can then kill them? Every time? No trials needed, no evidence?
That's how death squads work. You can say the magic word 'Hamas' or 'terrorist' and then declare your death squad is moral.

That would be true, if they were storming the hospital, or throwing a bomb. A silenced revolver, sneaking in and killing just the terrorists, will not count as a war crime. The military action was proportionate to the benefits gained - which is the neutralization of 3 terrorists, with no collateral damage, or extensive property damage, other than a few 100 bucks worth of damage to clean up and replace mattresses.
Disguising the military as civilians is a war crime, Isarelis say of Hamas. Either way, death squads are political assassinations and I support the rule of law and not giving any government the right to kill whoever they want, however they want with no justifications other than saying the magic words.

I support assassinating terrorists, yes. But a good long term solution here is either a 1 or a 2 state solution. That is something Israel needs to take steps for. But I dont think this assassination will have much of an effect on the peace process one way or another, given 27K are dead in Gaza, which I think is the bigger issue, and a bigger hindrance to peace. This one was okay, the one in Gaza, not.
So Hamas and Palestinians are therefore justified, according to you, in using death squads to kill settlers, who have committed 1000 terrorist attacks on Palestinians? And if Hamas says any Israeli is supporting genocide and terrorism they are allowed to form a death squad and kill them?

This is the logical extension of your argument and all it does is support more genocide, more terrorism and more death.

Ceasefire.
Charge both sides.
Allow food and aid in immediatedly.
End the occupation.
End apartheid.

Not death squads.
 

Dcoat

Well-known member
May 3, 2011
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You are inciting genocide by calling for attacks on hospitals, universities and civilians.

I'm not sure I said that, but I know you aren't concerned about facts, so I'm not concerned that you put words in my mouth.

But let me be clear: anyone who uses hospitals, schools, or UN buildings as military places, either as a fortress or a target, doesn't have my support. That includes using ambulances to carry militants who are not wounded or carrying ammunition to militants, or hospitals to imprison civilian or military hostages, or using schools to hide military exercises, or to brainwash children to become suicide bombs.

When confronted by these things, a military power MUST permanently remove the instigators. Targeting those terrorists may involve collateral (non-targeted) damage, including civilians who may or may not be innocents.

Your Hamas terrorists have done what leads to their "permanent removal" and much, much more.

Go, Israel, Go!!
 
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Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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No, they can't legally declare war on Hamas.
Says who? Hamas is a militant/terrorist group, that is in control of Gaza, so it is perfectly allowed within international law to declare war on Hamas.
Based on what acts? List the details and your reasons.
Based on the events of October 7. Were the killings extrajudicial? Yes. Were they intended as an act of revolutionary terror - yes. So they qualify as death squads per that definition.
The reports on Oct 7 say that Hamas killed about 3-400 IDF, those are enemy combatants. Of the 600 or so civilians its still unclear how many were killed by Israel using the Hannibal Directive (which also looks like death squads) and how many were killed by Hamas. That's why I support international investigations and charges rather than stating categorically one group are 'terrorists' and need to die.
The numbers do not matter. Yes IDF personnel were killed and Israel itself deployed the Hannibal Directive to kill some of their own people. But Hamas also did kill civilians. There is literally video of Hamas shooting civilians dead that we all saw.
So if you say someone is 'Hamas' you can then kill them? Every time? No trials needed, no evidence?
That's how death squads work. You can say the magic word 'Hamas' or 'terrorist' and then declare your death squad is moral.

Disguising the military as civilians is a war crime, Isarelis say of Hamas. Either way, death squads are political assassinations and I support the rule of law and not giving any government the right to kill whoever they want, however they want with no justifications other than saying the magic words.
In a military context, no trials are needed. I mean do you think the US goes to court every time they conduct a drone attack on terrorists. Or how about India in Kashmir when they kill insurgents? Only thing you need is to make sure your actions are adhering to international law and rules of war. Had Israel lied about these 3 being Hamas and it turns out that they were just civilians, then your criticism would be valid. But you'd have to also ask, why those 3 specific people? I don't think Israel would be that stupid either.

Also, it is not a war crime to execute covert operations as long as the rules of war are followed. It appears Israel in this case did follow rules of war. If you are doubtful of Israel's claims that these are Hamas, then present evidence that they are not, and your criticism would be valid.
So Hamas and Palestinians are therefore justified, according to you, in using death squads to kill settlers, who have committed 1000 terrorist attacks on Palestinians? And if Hamas says any Israeli is supporting genocide and terrorism they are allowed to form a death squad and kill them?

This is the logical extension of your argument and all it does is support more genocide, more terrorism and more death.
Oh I have said many times that these extremist settlers are terrorists. It would be justified to kill them. I think all these violent terrorist groups and individuals can be killed by a state's law enforcement and military agencies. They are fair game.

Civilians are not. My beef with Israel is a) Their colonialism and racism towards Palestinians. b) Their violence towards innocent Palestinians c) Their refusal to see Palestinians as being different than Hamas or other terror groups. But I do not at all afford Hamas that consideration. I think they are a violent terror group. Similarly, these settlers who engage in violence, are also domestic terrorists.
 

Leimonis

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Feb 28, 2020
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Based on this act, every hospital treating IDF is a LEGIT TARGET.
lol as if it ever has not been for your terrorist friends
 

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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Based on this act, every hospital treating IDF is a LEGIT TARGET.
It actually would be. Hamas would be 100% justified, and would even be adhering to the rules of war, if they went inside an Israeli hospital dressed as doctors, and gunned down IDF personnel that were being treated there, without other collateral damage.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
Yet if Palestinians did something like this you'd call it terrorism.
Getting a little sensitive are we?

Nope. Targetting militia is not an act of terror.

Attacking 1,200 civilians at a music festival fits the definition, though
 
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mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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Attacking a hospital is daring? lol. OMG I guess since you think murdering children is courageous and glorious I am not surprised.
What happened, Notty?? You posted this and then reposted it as a response to my post about 15 minutes later.

You walk around, put a little thought into things and then decide that it would be a brilliant coup to use your profound post as a response to me, rather than a standalone?
 
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shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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They have declared and are at war with Hamas. So this counts as a military operation. They did not kill any civilians, just targeted military targets, did not destroy property other than a few damaged beds and the walls having to be cleaned off the blood. This was clean and well done.
Kudos for this post. You did not deviate from your earlier position.

But be careful. frank may say that you support terrorism and genocide.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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But he did a 180 on his brother Kat real quick lol...
I just read those posts now.

But frank did say this. So it was close.
This is the logical extension of your argument and all it does is support more genocide, more terrorism and more death.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
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I just read those posts now.

But frank did say this. So it was close.
This is the logical extension of your argument and all it does is support more genocide, more terrorism and more death.
Okay but, did he successfully unify it with what his "resident military analyst du jour" had to say, which he extracted intact from Hamas' 'four corners of fabrications' straight from the internet?
 

Klatuu

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Dec 31, 2022
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"evacuated from a residential area " were not residential areas, they were, in fact, military strongholds. Legitimate targets. The kids are told to shield the military. Very sad, but not an Israeli target.
Delusional
 

Klatuu

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“The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the guardian of the Geneva Conventions which codify international humanitarian law, has expressed concern over the raid.

"Under international humanitarian law, hospitals and medical patients should be respected and protected at all times", the ICRC said, adding that it would raise the issue "as part of its confidential dialogue with the concerned authorities".

 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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I'm not sure I said that, but I know you aren't concerned about facts, so I'm not concerned that you put words in my mouth.

But let me be clear: anyone who uses hospitals, schools, or UN buildings as military places, either as a fortress or a target, doesn't have my support. That includes using ambulances to carry militants who are not wounded or carrying ammunition to militants, or hospitals to imprison civilian or military hostages, or using schools to hide military exercises, or to brainwash children to become suicide bombs.

When confronted by these things, a military power MUST permanently remove the instigators. Targeting those terrorists may involve collateral (non-targeted) damage, including civilians who may or may not be innocents.

Your Hamas terrorists have done what leads to their "permanent removal" and much, much more.

Go, Israel, Go!!
You just justified attacks on hospitals, schools and UN buildings by repeating unfounded claims that they are used for military uses.
That's justifying attacking civilian targets, which is more inciting of genocide in Israel.


12,000 children are dead already.
That has your support?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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"evacuated from a residential area " were not residential areas, they were, in fact, military strongholds. Legitimate targets. The kids are told to shield the military. Very sad, but not an Israeli target.
No, you can't claim everywhere in Gaza is a military stronghold.
All you are doing is repeating IDF claims and ignoring the evidence and reports used in the ICJ genocide charges.

 
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