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Pro Hamas in the west - and their adventures

Frankfooter

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It's playing to certain audiences.

The Arab expat audience wants support for Israel being entirely destroyed. So criticism of certain Israeli poltical figures and parties and urging the prosecution of certain Israeli groups and individuals doesn't fit the bill. It suggests that Israel is "fix-able" and can correct unacceptable behaviour. And that's inconsistent with Israel being done away with. So Israel has to be presented as fundamentally and irremediably evil and the best way to do that is to compare it with pre 1980 South Africa or Nazi Germany.

And the pro Palestinian protest folks think in terms of cartoons and absolutes - i.e. Frankie. So they have to be fed the same mental junk food.
50% of those who voted for Biden say they believe Israel is committing genocide.
The ICJ ruled that Israel has one month to cease anything that looks like genocide and report back.

This is not 'Arab expats', this is everyone in the world except a small number of Christian zionists, Jewish supremacists and ancient colonialists.
How can anyone actually think they are backing a popular movement backing Israel genocide?

So delusional.
 

Frankfooter

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Can you point to that part of the ruling?

#86
Israel must take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of this convention.

There is no need to make such a ruling unless they think Israel is committing genocide.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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#86
Israel must take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of this convention.

There is no need to make such a ruling unless they think Israel is committing genocide.
You are reading into that something that isn't there.
There would be a need to make such a ruling if there was a suspicion of risk of such acts.
Since South Africa specifically asked for the wording to include "desist" and the court went instead with "prevent", I don't think you can draw your conclusion that the only interpretation is that they think Israel is committing genocide.
 
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mandrill

monkey
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You are reading into that something that isn't there.
There would be a need to make such a ruling if there was a suspicion of risk of such acts.
Since South Africa specifically asked for the wording to include "desist" and the court went instead with "prevent", I don't think you can draw your conclusion that the only interpretation is that they think Israel is committing genocide.
Thank you. That is what I have been telling Frankie.

But he won't listen to you either.

The court made no finding of anything.
 

mandrill

monkey
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Who are the freelance reporters in Gaza?
Who are these freelancers? It has unfortunately become evident during this war that among the world’s top media outlets, the standards for hiring freelance writers, photographers, and cameramen are considerably lower in Gaza than in Greece or Guatemala.

The media watchdog HonestReporting revealed on November 8 that Gazan freelance journalist Hassan Eslaiah, who worked for both CNN and the Associated Press on October 7, crossed into Israel and took photos of a burning Israeli tank and infiltrators entering Kibbutz Kfar Aza. Eslaiah was found to be close with Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, the mastermind of the massacre.

While CNN and AP both broke ties with Eslaiah after the reports, AP continues to employ freelancer Issam Adwan, who HonestReporting revealed had called publicly for the annihilation of Israel and a “Palestinian revolt” and compared Israel to the Nazis. Adwan has not had a byline since that October 11 report, but he remains with AP.

On January 7, media widely reported that Israel had killed two Palestinian “journalists” in Gaza – Al Jazeera freelancers Hamza Al-Dahdouh and Mustafa Thuraya, who had also been an AFP contributor. The reports quoted Al Jazeera’s condemnation of the deliberate Israeli “targeting” of journalists.

But barely any media outlets bothered to update or correct their report three days later when the IDF released evidence proving that Al-Dahdouh and Thuraya had been terror operatives.

Last week, HonestReporting published an investigation of Mohammed Fayq Abu Mostafa, a freelancer working for Reuters. In a video revealed by the probe, Abu Mostafa called on Gazans to cross the border into Israel on Oct. 7, as he did, and he excitedly displayed live on Instagram footage he filmed of Hamas atrocities, including the lynching of an Israeli soldier.

Abu Mostafa bragged that he had been in Israel “since the beginning” and detailed what he saw both at the border and deep inside Israel, in Sderot. He described breaking into a room where Israelis were hiding before being kidnapped by Hamas terrorists.

His border photos, including one of the lynching, were recently selected by Reuters and The New York Times to be included in their 2023 “Images of the Year.” On Monday, Reuters led its compilation of photos from 100 days of war with a snapshot of Gazan infiltrations taken by Abu Mostafa.

The same investigation highlighted a friend of Eslaiah and Abu Mostafa, photojournalist Ashraf Amra, who has been working for AP, Reuters, and APA Images, as well as for the Turkish agency Anadolu. The investigation found that Amra had been honored with kisses by Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, who visited him in an Istanbul hospital in September.

Haniyeh told Amra during the visit that he appreciated his role and that of the Palestinian media in exposing “the crimes of the occupation.” Amra replied that his injury, which he blamed on Israel, would not prevent him from returning to his “national role.”

The high-profile hospital visit was not the first time Haniyeh had honored the veteran photojournalist, to whom he presented an award in 2012.

Such revelations cast doubt on the journalistic impartiality of such freelancers and the vetting procedures of media outlets that have relied on their work.

A commitment to journalistic ethics and basic humanity should prompt the news organizations to answer fundamental questions:

  • What exactly are their vetting procedures for freelancers in Gaza?
  • And, if there are different codes of conduct for freelancers vs. permanent staff in Gaza or elsewhere, then why isn’t that disclosed in every article that a freelancer works on?
There needs to be much greater transparency on the vetting process if men like Abu Mostafa and Amra, who mocked 1,200 Jews being murdered, are being treated like professionals by mainstream news organizations.

The media outlets clearly do not care about improving their standards if firings and suspensions only occur when they get caught. 

The writer is executive director and executive editor of HonestReporting. He served as chief political correspondent and analyst of The Jerusalem Post for 24 years.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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The IJC found cause that Israel is committing genocide and ordered Israel to cease the genocide and store all evidence.
They ordered Israel to charge everyone in their government who has been inciting for genocide.

You just show why your irrational use of rando tweets is unreliable because what they said doesn't come anywhere close to reality.
 
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basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Who are the freelance reporters in Gaza?
Who are these freelancers? It has unfortunately become evident during this war that among the world’s top media outlets, the standards for hiring freelance writers, photographers, and cameramen are considerably lower in Gaza than in Greece or Guatemala.

The media watchdog HonestReporting revealed on November 8 that Gazan freelance journalist Hassan Eslaiah, who worked for both CNN and the Associated Press on October 7, crossed into Israel and took photos of a burning Israeli tank and infiltrators entering Kibbutz Kfar Aza. Eslaiah was found to be close with Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, the mastermind of the massacre.

While CNN and AP both broke ties with Eslaiah after the reports, AP continues to employ freelancer Issam Adwan, who HonestReporting revealed had called publicly for the annihilation of Israel and a “Palestinian revolt” and compared Israel to the Nazis. Adwan has not had a byline since that October 11 report, but he remains with AP.

On January 7, media widely reported that Israel had killed two Palestinian “journalists” in Gaza – Al Jazeera freelancers Hamza Al-Dahdouh and Mustafa Thuraya, who had also been an AFP contributor. The reports quoted Al Jazeera’s condemnation of the deliberate Israeli “targeting” of journalists.

But barely any media outlets bothered to update or correct their report three days later when the IDF released evidence proving that Al-Dahdouh and Thuraya had been terror operatives.

Last week, HonestReporting published an investigation of Mohammed Fayq Abu Mostafa, a freelancer working for Reuters. In a video revealed by the probe, Abu Mostafa called on Gazans to cross the border into Israel on Oct. 7, as he did, and he excitedly displayed live on Instagram footage he filmed of Hamas atrocities, including the lynching of an Israeli soldier.

Abu Mostafa bragged that he had been in Israel “since the beginning” and detailed what he saw both at the border and deep inside Israel, in Sderot. He described breaking into a room where Israelis were hiding before being kidnapped by Hamas terrorists.

His border photos, including one of the lynching, were recently selected by Reuters and The New York Times to be included in their 2023 “Images of the Year.” On Monday, Reuters led its compilation of photos from 100 days of war with a snapshot of Gazan infiltrations taken by Abu Mostafa.

The same investigation highlighted a friend of Eslaiah and Abu Mostafa, photojournalist Ashraf Amra, who has been working for AP, Reuters, and APA Images, as well as for the Turkish agency Anadolu. The investigation found that Amra had been honored with kisses by Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, who visited him in an Istanbul hospital in September.

Haniyeh told Amra during the visit that he appreciated his role and that of the Palestinian media in exposing “the crimes of the occupation.” Amra replied that his injury, which he blamed on Israel, would not prevent him from returning to his “national role.”

The high-profile hospital visit was not the first time Haniyeh had honored the veteran photojournalist, to whom he presented an award in 2012.

Such revelations cast doubt on the journalistic impartiality of such freelancers and the vetting procedures of media outlets that have relied on their work.

A commitment to journalistic ethics and basic humanity should prompt the news organizations to answer fundamental questions:

  • What exactly are their vetting procedures for freelancers in Gaza?
  • And, if there are different codes of conduct for freelancers vs. permanent staff in Gaza or elsewhere, then why isn’t that disclosed in every article that a freelancer works on?
There needs to be much greater transparency on the vetting process if men like Abu Mostafa and Amra, who mocked 1,200 Jews being murdered, are being treated like professionals by mainstream news organizations.

The media outlets clearly do not care about improving their standards if firings and suspensions only occur when they get caught. 

The writer is executive director and executive editor of HonestReporting. He served as chief political correspondent and analyst of The Jerusalem Post for 24 years.
UNRWA and the WHO have the same issue. I doesn't necessarily mean they aren't neutral as an organization but it does explain how rarely Hamas violations get reported.

For example,
It was only exposed because foreign UNRWA workers saw it.

Same thing happened twice in 2017.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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You are reading into that something that isn't there.
There would be a need to make such a ruling if there was a suspicion of risk of such acts.
Since South Africa specifically asked for the wording to include "desist" and the court went instead with "prevent", I don't think you can draw your conclusion that the only interpretation is that they think Israel is committing genocide.
For the ICJ to say 'desist' they would have to find Israel guilty of genocide, which was outside of their mandate. You can't tell someone to 'desist' from something you haven't ruled they've done yet. Your argument is based on a false premise. The strongest language you can use is 'prevent' without a ruling on guilt or innocence.

They also ruled that Israel 'shall take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations within the scope of Article II and Article III'. If they found no basis to the allegations there would be no requirement to preserve evidence.
 

Leimonis

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
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For the ICJ to say 'desist' they would have to find Israel guilty of genocide, which was outside of their mandate. You can't tell someone to 'desist' from something you haven't ruled they've done yet. Your argument is based on a false premise. The strongest language you can use is 'prevent' without a ruling on guilt or innocence.

They also ruled that Israel 'shall take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations within the scope of Article II and Article III'. If they found no basis to the allegations there would be no requirement to preserve evidence.
1706416675987.gif
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
94,209
23,673
113

Who are the freelance reporters in Gaza?
Who are these freelancers? It has unfortunately become evident during this war that among the world’s top media outlets, the standards for hiring freelance writers, photographers, and cameramen are considerably lower in Gaza than in Greece or Guatemala.

The media watchdog HonestReporting revealed on November 8 that Gazan freelance journalist Hassan Eslaiah, who worked for both CNN and the Associated Press on October 7, crossed into Israel and took photos of a burning Israeli tank and infiltrators entering Kibbutz Kfar Aza. Eslaiah was found to be close with Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, the mastermind of the massacre.

While CNN and AP both broke ties with Eslaiah after the reports, AP continues to employ freelancer Issam Adwan, who HonestReporting revealed had called publicly for the annihilation of Israel and a “Palestinian revolt” and compared Israel to the Nazis. Adwan has not had a byline since that October 11 report, but he remains with AP.

On January 7, media widely reported that Israel had killed two Palestinian “journalists” in Gaza – Al Jazeera freelancers Hamza Al-Dahdouh and Mustafa Thuraya, who had also been an AFP contributor. The reports quoted Al Jazeera’s condemnation of the deliberate Israeli “targeting” of journalists.

But barely any media outlets bothered to update or correct their report three days later when the IDF released evidence proving that Al-Dahdouh and Thuraya had been terror operatives.

Last week, HonestReporting published an investigation of Mohammed Fayq Abu Mostafa, a freelancer working for Reuters. In a video revealed by the probe, Abu Mostafa called on Gazans to cross the border into Israel on Oct. 7, as he did, and he excitedly displayed live on Instagram footage he filmed of Hamas atrocities, including the lynching of an Israeli soldier.

Abu Mostafa bragged that he had been in Israel “since the beginning” and detailed what he saw both at the border and deep inside Israel, in Sderot. He described breaking into a room where Israelis were hiding before being kidnapped by Hamas terrorists.

His border photos, including one of the lynching, were recently selected by Reuters and The New York Times to be included in their 2023 “Images of the Year.” On Monday, Reuters led its compilation of photos from 100 days of war with a snapshot of Gazan infiltrations taken by Abu Mostafa.

The same investigation highlighted a friend of Eslaiah and Abu Mostafa, photojournalist Ashraf Amra, who has been working for AP, Reuters, and APA Images, as well as for the Turkish agency Anadolu. The investigation found that Amra had been honored with kisses by Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, who visited him in an Istanbul hospital in September.

Haniyeh told Amra during the visit that he appreciated his role and that of the Palestinian media in exposing “the crimes of the occupation.” Amra replied that his injury, which he blamed on Israel, would not prevent him from returning to his “national role.”

The high-profile hospital visit was not the first time Haniyeh had honored the veteran photojournalist, to whom he presented an award in 2012.

Such revelations cast doubt on the journalistic impartiality of such freelancers and the vetting procedures of media outlets that have relied on their work.

A commitment to journalistic ethics and basic humanity should prompt the news organizations to answer fundamental questions:

  • What exactly are their vetting procedures for freelancers in Gaza?
  • And, if there are different codes of conduct for freelancers vs. permanent staff in Gaza or elsewhere, then why isn’t that disclosed in every article that a freelancer works on?
There needs to be much greater transparency on the vetting process if men like Abu Mostafa and Amra, who mocked 1,200 Jews being murdered, are being treated like professionals by mainstream news organizations.

The media outlets clearly do not care about improving their standards if firings and suspensions only occur when they get caught. 

The writer is executive director and executive editor of HonestReporting. He served as chief political correspondent and analyst of The Jerusalem Post for 24 years.
Are you again trying to justify and defend Israel killing over 100 journalists?
You also tried to justify Israel killing 150 UNRWA workers today.

 

richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
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You are reading into that something that isn't there.
There would be a need to make such a ruling if there was a suspicion of risk of such acts.
Since South Africa specifically asked for the wording to include "desist" and the court went instead with "prevent", I don't think you can draw your conclusion that the only interpretation is that they think Israel is committing genocide.
Franky doesn't accept anything short of genocide by the jews....that's his wet dream....he really wish palestinians perish in the hands of Israelis....just so he can say he was right...while also not acknowledging that hamas are terrorists...
 
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Frankfooter

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Franky doesn't accept anything short of genocide by the jews....that's his wet dream....he really wish palestinians perish in the hands of Israelis....just so he can say he was right...while also not acknowledging that hamas are terrorists...
Its about zionists committing genocide, rich.
Claiming its about 'the Jews' is an antisemitic trope.
You can do better.

 

richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
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Its about zionists committing genocide, rich.
Claiming its about 'the Jews' is an antisemitic trope.
You can do better.

Oh so now zionists aren't jews and jews aren't zionists, but you can't differentiate hamas from Palestinians? IdF is after hamas not Palestinians but you keep crying about genocide...hamas saying they will repeat Oct 7, repeat killing civilians yet they are not the problem?
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Oh so now zionists aren't jews and jews aren't zionists, but you can't differentiate hamas from Palestinians? IdF is after hamas not Palestinians but you keep crying about genocide...hamas saying they will repeat Oct 7, repeat killing civilians yet they are not the problem?
The zionists on this board try to do both, rich, as do you.

They try to conflate all Palestinians as Hamas, otherwise killing 12,000 children is just fucking genocidal, nazi like evil. But if you tell yourself they are Hamas 'vermin' that need to be exterminated like shack does you can do your little happy dance.
Then, like basketcase, they try to call anyone critical of zionism and its genocide 'antisemitic' while ignoring groups like IfNotNow and IJV Canada that stand against the genocide.

You do both, don't you?
 
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