Israel at war

shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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[QUOTE="basketcase, post: 8196288, member: 64397]
Seems either Hamas doesn't want to release any more hostages or they can't get them back from the other terror groups.[/QUOTE]
Or they're already dead.
 
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Frankfooter

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You've been told again and again that it is not "collective punishment". No one is trying to punish civilians. But if HAMAS embeds within the civilian community, HAMAS places civilian lives at risk.
You've been told again and again that trump never lies on this board as well. Now you're like a trump supporter and won't accept the law, facts or human rights reports.
I'll stick to the law and reports by human rights organizations.

1) The 'siege' withholding all food, water and power is not only collective punishment its genocidal. You refuse to comment on this or debate this fact. Instead you ignore it.




2) The blockade has been ruled collective punishment and a war crime by the UN
3) Apartheid is a collective punishment.

If the only way that Israel can self-defend is by destroying HAMAS and the only way to destroy HAMAS is to engage in a civilian-heavy milieu - because that's what HAMAS chooses - then there are going to be many unavoidable inadvertent civilian casualties.
Bullshit.
Israel just proved you can negotiate with Hamas through the truce.
Those were the first talks with Hamas in almost a decade.

Even if you could, and you can't, kill all Hamas you'll just create another generation that will hate Israelis even more.
Far better is to end the illegal occupation and colonization of Palestine.



1. Why did HAMAS raid Israel and commit outrageous war atrocities and then dare Israel to come get them?
Because there were 233 settler terrorist attacks before Oct in 2023, followed by settlers storming the Al Aqsa and announcements of more 'settlements', which you for some reason don't think are settler colonialism. If you want the attacks to stop you need to end the occupation and apartheid.

2. Why did HAMAS do this, knowing that Israel could not refuse to go into Gaza to get HAMAS and knowing that HAMAS didn't even have a FRACTION of the military capability that Israel does? HAMAS was certain to lose massively, completely and relatively quickly. HAMAS has no tanks or tac air and relatively little artillery and all its assets are technologically primitive.
Because there is no other option for them. There are no peace talks, the US blocks all UN actions and Israel refuses to end the blockade. You'd do it to if you lived there. If you want the attacks to stop you need to end the occupation and apartheid.

3. Why does 100% of the pro Palestinian news coverage feature dead women and kids?
Because there are 20,000 of them. Because its a fucking genocide. Because genocide is the most evil humans can do to other humans and for some reason its happening again, with otherwise reasonable people like you backing genocide.

Answer to all of the above questions: Because the whole point of everything that HAMAS did was to manufacture news footage for Western media showing dead Palestinian kids. It's ALL about stirring up moral outrage among the Western audience. THAT'S why HAMAS is doing this whole shtick. From 7 October onwards, this whole episode has been HAMAS figuring out how to sacrifice Palestinian children and show their bodies on CNN.

The theory was that HAMAS could turn the west against Israel if HAMAS made Israel kill Palestinian kids and then videotaped the dead kids and showed them.
Stupid theory. Israel is the one that chooses to keep the blockade, occupation, apartheid and colonization ongoing. Not Hamas.
Israel chooses to drop the $3.8 billion in annual US bombs on the people of Gaza, not Hamas.

Israel keeps killing journalists and knocking out the power to keep those pictures from coming out.
But if you don't want pictures of dead Palestinians in the news the best solution is to stop fucking killing them.
Ceasefire.
End the occupation
End apartheid.

Act like a lawyer and tell both sides to respect the law.
 
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Frankfooter

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Where the eff are the police? This is a business venue, not a public street.

Not that public street protests should be allowed to impact the public on an almost daily basis, as seems to be happening now.
You think protests are a inconvient?
Imagine how Palestinians feel about a genocide.
 
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Frankfooter

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Seems either Hamas doesn't want to release any more hostages or they can't get them back from the other terror groups.
Or they're already dead.
Well, with Israel again blocking all food and water, I'm sure they will be dead soon enough.

Though maybe Hamas realized that the math of releasing prisoners was no good.




 
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shack

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Or you are saying Israelis are dumbasses who played right into Hamas' strategy. Which is it?
You mean the strategy of sacrificing the citizens of Gaza? The strategy of not giving a shit how many Gazan women and children die? The strategy of using them as human shields while they hide like rats in their sewers/tunnels? The strategy of stealing humanitarian aid meant for the people that you worry about because of them not getting food and water?

And you support these Hamas vermin who use such a strategy?
 

shack

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Mandrill complains about the number of media posts about dead Palestinian children.
Well, there are 8,000 of them.
Considering these numbers are coming from Hamas reports which the UN accepts at face value, it's probably more like 800.
 

Klatuu

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You mean the strategy of sacrificing the citizens of Gaza? The strategy of not giving a shit how many Gazan women and children die? The strategy of using them as human shields while they hide like rats in their sewers/tunnels? The strategy of stealing humanitarian aid meant for the people that you worry about because of them not getting food and water?

And you support these Hamas vermin who use such a strategy?
Delusional
 

squeezer

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Jan 8, 2010
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And you have been told again and again, that you are wrong. You are not just objectively factually wrong, but your position is also morally bankrupt. According to International Law, turning off power, water and food is a war crime. If Hamas embeds itself within the civilian population, then yes, that is a war crime. But shooting those civilians to get to Hamas is ALSO a war crime. Hamas breaking International Law, does not absolve Israel from its own obligations. That is not my argument. That is international law. So you are wrong.

Israel by committing war crimes such as carpet bombing, attacking hospitals etc is breaking IHL per Article 51. Israel's use of collective punishment measures, such as movement restrictions, shelling of residential areas, mass arrests, and the destruction of public health infrastructure violates Articles 33 and 53 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.



Israel is not defending itself. Israeli self-defense ended on October 7. Self-defense is not done via invasions. That is argument Russia makes for invading Ukraine. It is nonsensical and idiotic.



Speculation. You do not know what Hamas intends.



Their stated reasons were the Al-Aqsa storming by Israelis. The 200+ settler attacks resulting in deaths in 2023 alone, which amounts to domestic terrorism. The unlawful detention of children and other Palestinians, (for which I gave you articles to read), without due process. The continuing occupation and oppression of the Palestinians. Now was the "raid" justified despite these reasons? No. It was terrorism. But, those were their stated reasons.



Because the majority of the population of Gaza are women and kids. Nearly 50% of the population of Gaza are kids. So the majority of the dead are women and kids.



EVEN if this position of yours was true, please explain, how it is justified for Israel to kill innocent civilians and kids and commit war crimes?

Either you are so morally bankrupt that you are arguing, "Oh they were asking for it". Which is the wife beater defence. Or you are saying Israelis are dumbasses who played right into Hamas' strategy. Which is it?
Again, you mention carpet bombing when you know full well it is NOT happening. Once one sees that nonsense, the rest of your post goes under "waste of time to read".
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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And you have been told again and again, that you are wrong. You are not just objectively factually wrong, but your position is also morally bankrupt. According to International Law, turning off power, water and food is a war crime. If Hamas embeds itself within the civilian population, then yes, that is a war crime. But shooting those civilians to get to Hamas is ALSO a war crime. Hamas breaking International Law, does not absolve Israel from its own obligations. That is not my argument. That is international law. So you are wrong.

Israel by committing war crimes such as carpet bombing, attacking hospitals etc is breaking IHL per Article 51. Israel's use of collective punishment measures, such as movement restrictions, shelling of residential areas, mass arrests, and the destruction of public health infrastructure violates Articles 33 and 53 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
The actual experts are stating that Israel is not breaching international law. I realize that your buddies at the Socialist Collective Discussion Group for Anticolonialism and Trans Inclusionary Protest don't agree. But that's not my problem.

Israel is not defending itself. Israeli self-defense ended on October 7. Self-defense is not done via invasions. That is argument Russia makes for invading Ukraine. It is nonsensical and idiotic.
You're a silly man. A sniper is shooting at your kids from 100 metres across the Gaza border. To kill him, you have to go into Gaza and shoot him from the flank. So you invade Gaza. But it's still self defence.

I realize that your buddies at the Socialist Collective Discussion Group for Anticolonialism and Trans Inclusionary Protest don't agree. But that's not my problem.
Speculation. You do not know what Hamas intends.
They've made official statements that they intend to raid again.

Their stated reasons were the Al-Aqsa storming by Israelis. The 200+ settler attacks resulting in deaths in 2023 alone, which amounts to domestic terrorism. The unlawful detention of children and other Palestinians, (for which I gave you articles to read), without due process. The continuing occupation and oppression of the Palestinians. Now was the "raid" justified despite these reasons? No. It was terrorism. But, those were their stated reasons.
They've said they're going to raid again. "From the River to the See", the jihad continues.... Blablabla.

Because the majority of the population of Gaza are women and kids. Nearly 50% of the population of Gaza are kids. So the majority of the dead are women and kids.
EVEN if this position of yours was true, please explain, how it is justified for Israel to kill innocent civilians and kids and commit war crimes?

Either you are so morally bankrupt that you are arguing, "Oh they were asking for it". Which is the wife beater defence. Or you are saying Israelis are dumbasses who played right into Hamas' strategy. Which is it?
I've explained so many times. But you just give me the speech you learned about "anti colonial struggle and anti racism" - neither of which applies in Palestine.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Phil C. McNasty

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Again, you mention carpet bombing when you know full well it is NOT happening. Once one sees that nonsense, the rest of your post goes under "waste of time to read"
@Kautilya doesnt understand that you need B-52 bombers to do heavy carpet-bombing.
And Israel doesnt have any B-52's in their Air Force: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Force

Kautilya is a light-weight debater who needs to do more research before spouting his nonsense

 
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