thank you for the detailed response.Archeological findings from 2000 years ago do not matter. You cannot go somewhere 2000 years later and say your ancestors used to live there and claim the land for yourself. If we go by that logic, the indigenous people of Canada, can acquire weapons tomorrow and drive you out of Canada because they have lived here longer than any Canadian has. Neither the archeological findings, nor what your religion tells you - that you are a chosen people etc., is a legitimate reason for Israel to even exist.
So what makes Israel legitimate?
a) 10M people live there. Have a home, businesses, infrastructure and most importantly an identity.
b) Sufficient time has passed and Israel is recognized by the majority of the international community.
This is what makes Israel a legitimate state. That's it. People live there, and the world agrees they can live here. Nothing else.
The world also agrees, atleast the majority of it, that Palestine is also a legitimate state. It is time for Israel to recognize them and give them back their statehood.
The occupation is defined variously. But in my opinion, the settlements etc are occupation. At the very least the 1967 borders should be given back to the Palestinians. "We conquered this land" is not a legitimate argument, because by conquering the land, you have occupied it. That is not helping your argument at all.
Yes, Israel is a racist, apartheid state. The crime of Apartheid as defined by the Rome statute. Citizenship is not a criteria for a crime of apartheid to happen.
The crime of apartheid is defined by the 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court as inhumane acts of a character similar to other crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime".
There are different legal systems for Palestinians in the West Bank, where civil and criminal law does not apply to Palestinians but only to Israelis. Israel controls the land, builds walls, checkpoints, institutes ID systems and so on and restricts movement of people. All of these are features of apartheid. Granted some where brought in for security purposes, but at the end of the day it is apartheid.
Also, the very premise of Israel, that it is a Jewish ethno-state, "we are a chosen people" etc is inherently racist. Going by your definition of Zionism - that Jews have a connection to this homeland and are indigenous to this land, is inherently racist too because it denies Palestinian connection to the land. It rejects their identity, nationhood and many Israelis say that it is the Palestinians that are occupying their lands!!! When in reality, Palestinians have been there longer than present day Israelis have. So in sum, Zionism is racist.
I have spoken to several Israeli friends in my personal life and I have also watched videos from Corey Gil Shuster on YouTube (Ask Project), and other videos of everyday Israelis, one of which I will link below. If these views aren't racist, violent, cliquey and colonial, then what is?
- Many of the arab countries define their countries by their religion too. Israel has the right to do the same. As I described above, my dads side can trace 400 years back (meaning likely longer but we dont have the fam tree). Most of the modern "Palestinians" migrated to Israel from mid 19th century once the land became prosperous. Israel was a land of sand or swamps. It was not a good place to live.
- You said something that is correct- from a pragmatic stand point there is a reality of 10mm Israelis and 4-5mm Palestinians. If Israel was smart it would define a state for them and be the first to recognize it. 67 borders is not pragmatic. If you do the most western line, it is merely 16 km from the sea. That is not practical. So some land exchange is likely required. Israel does have its own fanatics which the majority dont agree with. The political system in Israel is a prob and hopefully it would change at one point. Whether the Palestinians will want to govern themselves is a different prob. They need to stop being victims and think how to achieve a state without a war. That would be a good day.
- How in Israel there is apartheid is beyond me. supreme court judge, soccer players on national team, judges, doctors (lots of doctors) , members of parliament. So I respectfully disagree