Guilbeault says no more carbon price carve-outs on his watch, as Tory motion fails

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
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Ghawar
Nov 07, 2023

Environment Minister Steven Guilbeault said Monday he will not stand for any further adjustments to Canada's carbon-pricing system as a Conservative motion calling for more carve-outs failed in the House of Commons.

“As long as I’m the environment minister, there will be no more exemptions to carbon pricing,” Guilbeault told The Canadian Press in an interview.

“It’s certainly not ideal that we did it and in a perfect world we would not have to do that, but unfortunately we don’t live in a perfect world.”

The strength of the Liberals' carbon-pricing program was thrown into question after Prime Minister Justin Trudeau suddenly announced in late October that the government would provide a temporary, three-year pause from the carbon price for people who use home heating oil.

That exemption is set to take effect later this week.

Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre called the move divisive and accused Trudeau of engaging in regional favouritism in a bid to reverse the Liberals' sluggish poll numbers in Atlantic Canada, where a disproportionate number of households still use home heating oil.

Last week, Poilievre introduced a motion in the House of Commons calling on MPs to back his call to take the carbon price off all forms of home heating until after the next election.

Poilievre wants the next vote — which could come as late as the fall of 2025 — to be fought over whether Canada should continue to have a carbon price or not.

The motion failed Monday by a vote of 186 to 135. The Liberals and Bloc Québécois voted against it, and the Tories and NDP voted in favour.

After the vote, Poilievre said the heating oil exemption proves the argument carbon pricing is not effective climate policy.

"According to him, you can remove the carbon tax off oil heat and it won't hurt the environment," Poilievre said, referring to Trudeau.

The Liberals defend offering a carve-out to their signature climate policy as a necessary move because the cost of home heating oil rose more than 70 per cent over the last two years and people were struggling to pay to replace it with alternatives such as heat pumps.

Trudeau also announced plans to increase the amount of grant money available to help low- and moderate-income Canadians replace oil furnaces with electric heat pumps. He said the pause gives people more time and money to make that change.

The Liberals also say that while the carbon-price rebate more than covers the associated added cost for natural gas, that isn't always true for home heating oil, which produces more greenhouse gas emissions and is charged a higher carbon levy.

Those rebates will be reduced to account for the home heating oil exemption. If natural gas were exempted, rebates would also fall, leaving most people using natural gas no further ahead financially.

About 1.1 million Canadians still have oil furnaces, and only about one in four of them are in Atlantic Canada, so a majority of those who will benefit from the policy live elsewhere.

However, as a share of total households, heating oil accounts for only about seven per cent of all homes nationally, but about 30 per cent in the Atlantic.

So the policy has a disproportionate impact in Atlantic Canada even though it applies countrywide.

Since the summer, consecutive polls have shown Poilievre's Conservatives well ahead of the Liberals. That includes across Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland and Labrador, where Trudeau's Liberals have fared well since the 2015 election that returned them to power.

Most premiers decried the heating oil pause as fundamentally unfair, with Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe threatening to stop collecting the federal carbon levy on all sources of heat in January if the Liberals do not expand the exemption.

At a meeting in Halifax Monday, provincial premiers released a statement calling on Trudeau to ensure federal policies, such as carbon pricing, are delivered in an equitable way, "particularly in light of the affordability challenges being faced across the country."

The Liberals have called on premiers to sign on as partners to the heat pump grant program. It was offered to all provinces, and can now provide up to $15,000 towards
the cost of replacing an oil furnace with an electric heat pump. But only Nova Scotia, P.E.I. and Newfoundland and Labrador signed onto it.

Home heating oil was exempt from the carbon price in the Atlantic until July, when the four provinces began using the federal carbon price program, rather than their own provincial versions that until then Ottawa had approved.

Atlantic Liberals lobbied Trudeau hard for months before that change, and in the months since, to provide relief as concerns mounted about the cost of living.

Poilievre said the Liberal carbon-price about-face came as Trudeau panicked about his falling poll numbers.

The move from the Liberals came just before Poilievre was set to take the stage at a rally in rural Nova Scotia. It was part of a months-long "axe the tax" campaign, which the Conservatives are using to drum up support in key ridings.

Poilievre has promised to get rid of carbon pricing if he wins the next election.

The New Democrats' decision to vote in favour of Poilievre's motion came after failing to convince the Conservatives to push for the GST to be removed from home heating instead.

Siding with the Tories marked a shift for the NDP, which in early 2022 entered into a confidence-and-supply agreement with the governing Liberals.

This was not a confidence vote that risked bringing the government down, so that agreement did not apply.

Still, leader Jagmeet Singh said he was not happy to be on the Conservatives' side but the Liberals forced his hand.

"I'm always reluctant to vote alongside the Conservatives in any way," Singh told reporters on Monday, ahead of the vote.

"On this vote specifically, it is very clear that this is a vote to reject the divisive approach of the Liberals and I do reject their approach."

 

y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
19,064
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113
Lewiston, NY
Nov 07, 2023

Environment Minister Steven Guilbeault said Monday he will not stand for any further adjustments to Canada's carbon-pricing system as a Conservative motion calling for more carve-outs failed in the House of Commons.

“As long as I’m the environment minister, there will be no more exemptions to carbon pricing,” Guilbeault told The Canadian Press in an interview.

“It’s certainly not ideal that we did it and in a perfect world we would not have to do that, but unfortunately we don’t live in a perfect world.”

The strength of the Liberals' carbon-pricing program was thrown into question after Prime Minister Justin Trudeau suddenly announced in late October that the government would provide a temporary, three-year pause from the carbon price for people who use home heating oil.

That exemption is set to take effect later this week.

Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre called the move divisive and accused Trudeau of engaging in regional favouritism in a bid to reverse the Liberals' sluggish poll numbers in Atlantic Canada, where a disproportionate number of households still use home heating oil.

Last week, Poilievre introduced a motion in the House of Commons calling on MPs to back his call to take the carbon price off all forms of home heating until after the next election.

Poilievre wants the next vote — which could come as late as the fall of 2025 — to be fought over whether Canada should continue to have a carbon price or not.

The motion failed Monday by a vote of 186 to 135. The Liberals and Bloc Québécois voted against it, and the Tories and NDP voted in favour.

After the vote, Poilievre said the heating oil exemption proves the argument carbon pricing is not effective climate policy.

"According to him, you can remove the carbon tax off oil heat and it won't hurt the environment," Poilievre said, referring to Trudeau.

The Liberals defend offering a carve-out to their signature climate policy as a necessary move because the cost of home heating oil rose more than 70 per cent over the last two years and people were struggling to pay to replace it with alternatives such as heat pumps.

Trudeau also announced plans to increase the amount of grant money available to help low- and moderate-income Canadians replace oil furnaces with electric heat pumps. He said the pause gives people more time and money to make that change.

The Liberals also say that while the carbon-price rebate more than covers the associated added cost for natural gas, that isn't always true for home heating oil, which produces more greenhouse gas emissions and is charged a higher carbon levy.

Those rebates will be reduced to account for the home heating oil exemption. If natural gas were exempted, rebates would also fall, leaving most people using natural gas no further ahead financially.

About 1.1 million Canadians still have oil furnaces, and only about one in four of them are in Atlantic Canada, so a majority of those who will benefit from the policy live elsewhere.

However, as a share of total households, heating oil accounts for only about seven per cent of all homes nationally, but about 30 per cent in the Atlantic.

So the policy has a disproportionate impact in Atlantic Canada even though it applies countrywide.

Since the summer, consecutive polls have shown Poilievre's Conservatives well ahead of the Liberals. That includes across Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland and Labrador, where Trudeau's Liberals have fared well since the 2015 election that returned them to power.

Most premiers decried the heating oil pause as fundamentally unfair, with Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe threatening to stop collecting the federal carbon levy on all sources of heat in January if the Liberals do not expand the exemption.

At a meeting in Halifax Monday, provincial premiers released a statement calling on Trudeau to ensure federal policies, such as carbon pricing, are delivered in an equitable way, "particularly in light of the affordability challenges being faced across the country."

The Liberals have called on premiers to sign on as partners to the heat pump grant program. It was offered to all provinces, and can now provide up to $15,000 towards
the cost of replacing an oil furnace with an electric heat pump. But only Nova Scotia, P.E.I. and Newfoundland and Labrador signed onto it.

Home heating oil was exempt from the carbon price in the Atlantic until July, when the four provinces began using the federal carbon price program, rather than their own provincial versions that until then Ottawa had approved.

Atlantic Liberals lobbied Trudeau hard for months before that change, and in the months since, to provide relief as concerns mounted about the cost of living.

Poilievre said the Liberal carbon-price about-face came as Trudeau panicked about his falling poll numbers.

The move from the Liberals came just before Poilievre was set to take the stage at a rally in rural Nova Scotia. It was part of a months-long "axe the tax" campaign, which the Conservatives are using to drum up support in key ridings.

Poilievre has promised to get rid of carbon pricing if he wins the next election.

The New Democrats' decision to vote in favour of Poilievre's motion came after failing to convince the Conservatives to push for the GST to be removed from home heating instead.

Siding with the Tories marked a shift for the NDP, which in early 2022 entered into a confidence-and-supply agreement with the governing Liberals.

This was not a confidence vote that risked bringing the government down, so that agreement did not apply.

Still, leader Jagmeet Singh said he was not happy to be on the Conservatives' side but the Liberals forced his hand.

"I'm always reluctant to vote alongside the Conservatives in any way," Singh told reporters on Monday, ahead of the vote.

"On this vote specifically, it is very clear that this is a vote to reject the divisive approach of the Liberals and I do reject their approach."

Heating oil is the low hanging fruit. Only slightly less polluting than wood, coal or Trump farts, it costs a lot more and the money goes into the pockets of (ahem) big oil. Have to start pruning somewhere. Maybe the tax hiatus needs a caveat that the beneficiary needs to have a conversion plan in place. Claw-backs if people renege ...
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,516
22,156
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Heating oil is the low hanging fruit. Only slightly less polluting than wood, coal or Trump farts, it costs a lot more and the money goes into the pockets of (ahem) big oil. Have to start pruning somewhere. Maybe the tax hiatus needs a caveat that the beneficiary needs to have a conversion plan in place. Claw-backs if people renege ...
Cheaper long term to just subsidize switching to heat pumps, really.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
17,062
2,808
113
Nov 07, 2023

Environment Minister Steven Guilbeault said Monday he will not stand for any further adjustments to Canada's carbon-pricing system as a Conservative motion calling for more carve-outs failed in the House of Commons.

“As long as I’m the environment minister, there will be no more exemptions to carbon pricing,” Guilbeault told The Canadian Press in an interview.
so lets replace the Environment Minister and his party

I am confident this eco-terrorist nutjob will find a new way to somehow suckle from the public tit and continue to make life more difficult for others, so no concern if he is trounced from Ottawa
 
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JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Heating oil is the low hanging fruit. Only slightly less polluting than wood, coal or Trump farts, it costs a lot more and the money goes into the pockets of (ahem) big oil. Have to start pruning somewhere. Maybe the tax hiatus needs a caveat that the beneficiary needs to have a conversion plan in place. Claw-backs if people renege ...
Maybe the tax needs an all encompassing and permanent hiatus

the idea man can control our complex, dynamic and chaotic climate system is absurd and hubris
the idea man can control our complex, dynamic and chaotic climate system via taxation is beyond absurd and hubris, it is evil and disingenuous
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,516
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Maybe the tax needs an all encompassing and permanent hiatus

the idea man can control our complex, dynamic and chaotic climate system is absurd and hubris
the idea man can control our complex, dynamic and chaotic climate system via taxation is beyond absurd and hubris, it is evil and disingenuous
Like they'd listen to anti science extremists.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
17,062
2,808
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Cheaper long term to just subsidize switching to heat pumps, really.
heat pump lower temperature limit - Google Search

It is important to note that the vast majority of air-source heat pumps have a minimum operating temperature, below which they are unable to operate. For newer models, this can range from between -15°C to -25°C. Below this temperature, a supplemental system must be used to provide heating to the building.
average winter temperature canada - Google Search

Climate in Canada varies widely from region to region. Winters can be harsh in many parts of the country, particularly in the interior and Prairie provinces, which experience a continental climate, where daily average temperatures are near −15 °C (5 °F), but can drop below −40 °C (−40 °F) with severe wind chills.
so heat pumps require a supplemental heating system
so there is no switching, just incremental costs

you have strong definitive opinions about matters you do not understand
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,516
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what grade did you fail out of school again?
Oh yeah, the same year they tried to teach you science
Tell us again about your genius theory about IR absorption, the one that only you understand.
The one that will win you the Nobel.

Show us how much smarter you are than NASA.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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And how many days below 25ºC do we see on average in Toronto, larue?
they do not just work until it hits -25 c
they become incrementally less efficient with each decline in temperature


what part of the word supplemental do you not understand ?

Are you going to force heat pump conversions on the 416/905 area codes comrade ?
more division of country by leftist know nothings

if the temperature dips below -25 for a few days and all you have is a heat pump... your dead
just like the other brain dead loonie left solution to the non-existent problem, (windmills & solar panels) a back up/ partner system ( oil, gas heating) is required

so again, no switching, just incremental costs

the Aztecs thought they could control the climate with human sacrifice
in medieval times they thought witches were controlling the climate so they burnt the witches

you think you can control climate via taxation
you are not keeping up with the advancements in enlightenment / understanding

since man first learned how to communicate, there has always been a certain proportion of the population who predict the end of the world.
these people have been laughing stocks

laughing stock - Search (bing.com)
definition: laugh·ing·stock
a person or thing subjected to general mockery or ridicule:
 
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Not getting younger

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Jun 29, 2022
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And how many days below 25ºC do we see on average in Toronto, larue?
This post/reply perfectly illustrates a big part of the problem. Not only in Ontario’s provincial politics, but federally too. Way too many voters in the GTA have no clue how big Ontario is, and that’s there’s life outside the city. never mind Canada and they believe the world revolves around them.

Frank, in your case you had no clue that wind farms get built on working farms. Many within easy driving distance of the city..If you don’t know that, how much ( little) do you actually know about issues outside the city and Center of the universe.

I doubt you’re even aware Northern Ontario already has snow in the ground and often does until May.

-25? I’m not all that north of the GTA and we get a lot. Given I’m in farmland, the windchill here also is worse. Ever heard of windbreaks? What do you think the prairies are like? Nor do I benefit from what’s called lake effect the GTA gets. I thought you understood nature and the climate….

You keep mentioning heat pumps like they are some kind of Nirvanna. I too have linked their limitations and their cost. New flash Frank, take a drive outside the city sometime. Median incomes, in part because self absorbed Torontonins closed their eyes 2003-2013 are way lower. Though you all whine loudly now about the consequences and people flooding the GTA……And the rebates are hardly worth it. So you “bright” idea is to make home heating so expensive, for those that don’t have cheap Nat Gas pampered person you are, is to spend thousands, they don’t have…Especially when you live in areas where $100,000 jobs are non existent.

Maybe someday Liberals in the GTA will realize there’s more to Ontario, and the carnage they create when they get treated like pampered children via targeted vote buying such as Carbon taxes or even this panicked bullshit ( propane is almost as expensive as oil) for votes in traditional Liberal ridings, such as Atlantic Canada, Quebec and the GTA.

newflash Frank. My monthly home heating ( propane) averages around $750-$800 every 5 weeks. And that, after I spent $7,000 to convert from Hydro ( I doubt you have any clue how many Ontarians heat with Hydro. Triple ouch) to propane when I bought here in 2016…….Luckily for me, I could afford to do that. The previous owner couldn’t. Oh, and by the way. I have a heat pump.

Fortunately I am not the less fortunate Liberals and the GTA always pay lip service to and always throw under the bus. At least cons such as Ford don’t to pretend to care.

What’s yours if you pay the bills. $100 a month, live further south than a lot of Canadians, and have lake effect. And let’s not forget you have public transit, can walk places, etc and so on.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,516
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they do not just work until it hits -25 c
they become incrementally less efficient with each decline in temperature
Heat pumps are still 2-3 times more efficient even in the coldest weathers.
The oil&gas industry pumps out disinformation on heat pumps, they just want to sell oil.
You are a sucker, an easy mark who thinks himself smart, so you buy into it.

New Study Debunks Heat Pump Propaganda

 

Not getting younger

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2022
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Says the guy that has no clue about life outside his comfy and pampered city, and with a link from someone absolutely no-one has ever heard of before.Also thinks people that don’t have it so good, where medians are a lot lower, are getting reamed by him, his friends, Hydro, carbon taxes, food prices etc, have $15k to burn.

.

.

 
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