Mr. Trudeau Going Full Adolph

Frankfooter

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There are no Indian Nazis. Nazism is a western ideal. On the other hand you seem to be okay with Canadian terrorists.
Racial supremacy is not just a western ideal. You know that the Hindu caste system was built on supremacy just as much as you know that Hindu Nationalism is a movement based on racial supremacy. Just because India doesn't have a Jewish population doesn't mean there aren't similar beliefs behind both movements. Even now you are calling a Nazi an Indian hero after you've repeatedly demeaned both Pakistanis and Sikhs.
 

Frankfooter

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"Race" is not a thing in India. It neither exists in history, nor in common parlance. If you go to a rural Indian guy and ask him what his race is, he will ask you what "race" means or if you are referring to a horse race lol.

I would agree that in terms of impact to people, casteism or racism really makes no difference in how people suffer. But to say that the caste system was built on racial supremacy is outright wrong.

The caste system was a social hierarchy based on vocation that was developed 1000s of years ago. So there were Brahmins - who were priests and teachers, Kshatriyas - the rulers and the warriors, Vaishyas - the tradesmen, merchants and land owners, the Shudras - the servants, and the Dalits - untouchables who did dirty jobs like cleaning the streets, toilets, etc., Over the years thousands of castes developed.

In the past there was substantial caste violence, but today it is extremely reduced to the extent that we mostly don't even hear about it.

When it does happen it is usually political or retaliatory (like a guy from one village beats up a guy in another village during an altercation, so they go back and bring their own gang to the fight). For example, when I was in college one of my classmates belonged to a lower caste called "Vanniyar". We did not know he belonged to that caste, because in India you do not ask a person for their caste as a matter of social etiquette and rules. The only reason we knew he was a Vanniyar dude, was because Vanniyars have formed a political party called PMK. One of my other classmates talked trash about this political party, and this other guy got so pissed off for it. This is an example of a political reason due to which you could have caste violence.

Or it is more to do with tribalism - and on this one, sometimes lower castes discriminate against higher castes too. Particularly in government jobs. Because of affirmative action a lot of the government jobs are filled with people from lower castes. If a Brahmin were to apply there may be cases where they will not give him an offer, and instead recruit one of their own. Similarly, even if two castes are at the same "status", there are cases where they choose to self segregate. In almost all of these cases, the people involved are primarily rural or uneducated. If you consider contemporary India, no one gives a fuck about caste barring a few outliers.

Similarly Hindu Nationalism, regards everyone as Hindu, regardless of their actual religion. They consider Hinduism to not be a religion but a way of life. And that people of India, follow the "Hindu" way of life. That is why groups like RSS have Christian and Muslim wings. I don't agree with that, because ultimately it forces a certain "culture" on people, but again it has absolutely nothing to do with racial supremacy.

This does not mean Indians cannot be racist. They most certainly can. But caste and Hindu Nationalism are not racial supremacist ideals. So you comparing them to Nazi ideals is comparing apples to oranges.

Subhas Chandra Bose therefore, joined the Nazis because he fought the British, to free India from the colonial power. Therefore he is a national hero and a freedom fighter. Not a Nazi.
Race can only be based on culture, religion and skin tones. Biologically all humans are the same race, there is more genetic diversity between any one group of humans than between two different groups you would call 'race'.

Caste and Hindu Nationalism are race based. It is why Islamaphobia is a form of racism.
 

Frankfooter

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I don't disagree with what you said about biological race - it is not even a scientifically accurate taxonomic classification.

But caste and Hindu Nationalism, are neither race based, nor do they share any similarities with Islamaphobia.

Islamaphobia is xenophobia. Not racism. Caste and HN have nothing to do with xenophobia either.

In any case caste, Hindu Nationalism or Islamaphobia for that matter have nothing to do with Nazism and the corresponding ideals of racial superiority.
Of course they do.

Do some basic research on race and genetics. There are no genetic 'races' of humans. We are all the same.
Even skin colour will change over generations, if you move a group of humans further from the equator their collective skin colour will lighted over 50 generations.
 

Frankfooter

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That is what I meant when I said I agree with that statement. Race is a social construct. Not a biological one.

Where you are wrong is in saying Islamaphobia, casteism, Hindu Nationalism etc., are all "racist". Nazism is about biological superiority driven nationalism. Islamaphobia is xenophobia. Hindu Nationalism is an identity, a political and social philosophy. Casteism is social stratification based on vocation. They are all different things.
There is no biological basis, so Hindu Nationalism, Islamaphobia, Castes and Nazism are all based on social constructs.
The big difference is how far they go to back their supremacy.
 

Frankfooter

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Yes they are all social constructs. But they are not the same social constructs.

Therefore they cannot be compared. Its apple to oranges.
Of course they are all different social constructs but they are all based on variations of the same theme.
'this group of humans is better than that group of humans because of skin colour, religion, language, accent or any other term you want to use'
 

Frankfooter

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They are not the same. Your definition there, "this group of humans better than that group of humans" - is precisely what all of them are not. That is just the definition of racism or xenophobia, but not the rest.
Its the same. Castes, Islamaphobia, Hindu Nationalism, white nationalists, zionism, Nazism et al just use different terms to identify the group/tribe they think are superior to other groups.

Xenophobia just says 'people from other countries' instead of 'people who worship x' or whatever other term you want to use.
 

Frankfooter

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No. Its not the same as I explained earlier. Lumping everything you don't like together is lazy. They aren't remotely the same even though there may be some similarities in impact.
You didn't explain anything.
You posted your opinion.
 

Frankfooter

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I did explain caste and Hindu Nationalism in detail. In a subsequent post I explained how they were all different too. May be you did not read it.
You stated your views which don't clearly explain why you think Castes aren't a form of racial supremacy, same as you think about Hindu Nationalism.
The only real difference is that you believe in a couple so think they are different.
 

Frankfooter

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Racism is an arbitrary line drawn in the sand, where skin colour becomes the marker for discrimination. Racial supremacy is about being a biologically, intellectually and a culturally superior human as compared to a coloured biologically, intellectually and culturally inferior sub-human. This "inferior sub-human" is supposed to be less beautiful, less talented, less intelligent, less culturally refined and incapable of success compared to the oppressor.
No, racism is not biological. That is a false premise as there is no biologically different 'races' of humans.
All divisions for racism are based on cultural terms, which include religion, language, status, skin colour, or area of origin.

According to the United Nations's Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, there is no distinction between the terms "racial" and "ethnic" discrimination. It further concludes that superiority based on racial differentiation is scientifically false, morally condemnable, socially unjust, and dangerous. The convention also declared that there is no justification for racial discrimination, anywhere, in theory or in practice.[1]


PS: You also made the error of mentioning Zionism and Nazism as being similar ideals. Really? How is Nazism that sought to end Jews the same as a movement that seeks to establish a Jewish state? That is why your lumping of everything into one banner of "racial supremacy" is lazy.
Both groups are based on racial supremacy, as are white supremacists in North America, though fortunately nobody has gone quite that far in violence and genocide as the Nazis. Even the Rwanda racial supremacist genocide pales in comparison.

Zionists? On this board and in Israel they keep justifying, defending and increasing apartheid.
Racism is discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity. Racism can be present in social actions, practices, or political systems (e.g. apartheid) that support the expression of prejudice or aversion in discriminatory practices.
 
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