"Israel, Similar to Apartheid": Ekos Canada Poll

[basketcase]

Why don’t you try rewriting this and apply the text you tried to tag on the end after sputtering out an antI Palestinian diatribe. This simplistic and racist drivel. Is that too complex for you?

What a moronic accusation. It's not my fault that your overabundance of bile prevents you from reading anything historical that interferes with your hatred.

Is it too much for you to provide a description of what you think is simplistic and what (other than I don't push for the ethnic cleansing of Jews) do you consider racist?

 

[basketcase]

That is a cop out. I did not say they ban inter-religious weddings. I said there is no legal framework to conduct inter-religious weddings, which is a basic and salient feature of any liberal, secular democracy. Israel is not secular and it is not secular for very calculated reasons - not that it's people are religious nut jobs.

Its like, "Oh a Rabbi can do it if they are willing to". And then no Rabbi will ever do it. lol. Or you can go to another country to get married etc., Again, doesn't matter. Those are workarounds. Not solutions or a robust system.

What you need is a legal framework where you can go to a court and get married. That does not exist in Israel.

Also Israeli politicians wanting a Jewish majority is exactly the same as PA not wanting Jewish citizens. If the entire land was united as one country, Jews will automatically be a minority, so that is not possible per Israeli wishes. So it is just a better, cleverer or a more politically astute way of phrasing it. But it is just as extreme and unreasonable as the PA's position.

I have never pretended that it was an ideal system and a great many Israelis agree. It was an election issue in the previous election but wasn't considered the most important.

But considering Jews have absolutely zero rights in PA controlled territories of most Arab states, it's reasonable to say that Israeli intermarriage laws are better than the PA or Hamas which many want to replace them (and they aren't exactly down with intermarriage either.

Did you not look at the polling I posted on what Palestinians want because they sure as hell don't want a One State peace so it's pretty one sided to just blame it on Israel.

 

[basketcase]

When was that, because this says the opposite.

The data of the 1914 Ottoman census include 70,270 Muslims (58%) and 18,190 Jews (15%) in Jerusalem Kaza, out of the total population of 120,921.

Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

I'm sure instead of blindly googling, you took the time to look at the definitions of the territory involved right? The Jerusalem Kaza was an area including the Old City (which I was discussing) and it's surrounding villages (in this case as far east as the Dead Sea) including Ramallah, Bethlehem, Hebron, and Jericho.

 

[basketcase]

Israels neighbors have tried to end their existence how many times? And why did they stop... oh yeah because their failed badly and got their asses slapped each time not because they decided to accept Israel.
They are totally justified with their policies.

As for Apartheid, how are things going for South Africa and for that matter Zimbabwe after they got rid of it... yeah. Google that shit.

Or Iran which the UN just said had Gender Apartheid. They're not Jewish though so Franky doesn't care.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/01/middleeast/united-nations-calls-iran-hijab-gender-apartheid-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[basketcase]

Wrong. The land belongs to the people living on it.
...

So you're saying the 7 million Jews currently living on land there have a right to stay?

And sorry but when I bought my place, the tenant of the previous owner had to leave. Same would apply when Arabs sold land to Jews.



BTW. By your logic, neither the US nor Canada deserve to exist because we came and took it from the indigenous peoples. It would be very hypocritical to demand Jews leave Israel while living on land stolen from our indigenous.

 

[basketcase]

Gee, I wonder why after decades of slaughter and oppression the Palestinians don't want to live side-by-side with Israeli's?...

I could use the same excuse for Jewish terrorists developing in the 1930's after decades of ethnic attacks against them by their Arab neighbours. I won't though because I believe all people are capable of moral behaviour and are deserving of criticism when they choose not to.

But it seems like you're arguing in support of a Two State peace as the UN supports. Good. We agree.

You don't get to invade someone else's house, kick them out of it and then demand recognition.

Said while living happily in Canada.

 

[basketcase]

Its irrelevant what rights Jews have in PA controlled territories. That is whataboutism. ...

No, it is perfectly reasonable to discuss the flaws in the government that you think should take over. In this case your just using the term to justify a double standard where Arabs aren't held accountable for their choices. Seems like you learned something from the Raj.

 

[basketcase]

Pretty much no academics support a two-state solution anymore. This is not a serious proposal.

Pretty much the only possibilities:
1) Israel only - Arabs removed.
2) Arab only - Jews removed.
3) Two State peace as supported by the UN, Canada, and the Arab League
4) A One State peace which both Palestinians an d Israelis overwhelmingly hate.
5) Status quo which is only supported by the leadership of both Israel and Palestinians

Which do you support?


The first two are clearly racist. 4 is racist in the colonial way that you're imposing your desires on them without caring what they want. 5 is unsustainable no matter how much it benefits Netanyahu, Abbas, and Hamas.

 

[basketcase]

Nothing like accusing everyone of wanting to kill you, is there?
...

Nothing like pretending Hamas, PIJ, PFLP, Al Aqsa, and other serious Palestinian factions don't have the goal of eliminating the Jewish presence.

 

[basketcase]

Its not just in Israel.

Meta deletes Al Jazeera presenter’s profile after show criticising Israel
Tip of the Iceberg episode investigated how Facebook targets Palestinian content related to Israel.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1700701213451546806

I'm sure you're pushing some conspiracy about Jewish control of the media and not about the algorithm or the content of the posts.

 

[basketcase]

I did not say anything about what government should take over who.

I was talking about Israel not having basic, inter-marriage laws that you'd expect any liberal democracy to have, because they want to keep the state Jewish. It is a calculated move. You are deflecting here. Lets stay on the topic of the post.

Do you agree that Israel wants to purposefully keep the country majority Jewish? Yes or no? Does not matter what the PA wants or does. We are only talking about Israel. So?

I'm not sure what your point is as I've already said that Israel's marriage laws are worse than Canada's (though better than the PA or Hamas). Israel recognizes inter-religious marriages and gay marriages and secular divorce which is far better than anyone else in the region.

Is it surprising that after a century of ethnic conflict, neither side trusts the other? Yes, Israelis don't want to be ruled by Palestinians (including Israeli Arabs who repeated polls show would rather face systemic racism in Israel than live under the PA or Hamas) and Palestinians don't want to be ruled by Israel. That is why I agree with the UN that a Two State peace is the best path forward and don't give any credence to One State claims which the vast majority of people push simply because they want an Arab majority to marginalize the Jewish population. A pluralist society is a great ideal but it's not tenable until the conflict has had many many years to cool down. Just look at what happened in Yugoslavia.


p.s. It absolutely matters what the PA and Hamas want because their is no way for Israel (or the UN) to unilaterally impose a solution Palestinians reject.

 

[Klatuu]

Walid Khalidi.

He was one of those wealthy Palestinians who just moved to his other property in Beirut very early on.

Epic fail grandpa.

“The myth that the Palestinian exodus of 1948 was triggered by orders from the Arab leaders-a cornerstone of the official Israeli version of the 1948 war and intended to absolve it of responsibility for the refugee problem -dies hard. Thus, it continues to be deployed by apologists for Israel as a means of blaming the Palestinians for their own fate.”

https://www.palestine-studies.org/sites/default/files/attachments/jps-articles/why%20did%20the%20palestinians%20leave.pdf

 

[basketcase]

Epic fail grandpa.

“The myth that the Palestinian exodus of 1948 was triggered by orders from the Arab leaders-a cornerstone of the official Israeli version of the 1948 war and intended to absolve it of responsibility for the refugee problem -dies hard. Thus, it continues to be deployed by apologists for Israel as a means of blaming the Palestinians for their own fate.”

https://www.palestine-studies.org/sites/default/files/attachments/jps-articles/why%20did%20the%20palestinians%20leave.pdf

So why did the vast majority of refugees leave long before any Israeli troops came near?

The causes are pretty complex but the majority left because of fear spread by both sides.

Causes of the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But you don't really want to discuss anything that can't be used to blame Jews. You also don't want to discuss the million Arab Jews chased from their homes because the Arab states used Israel as an excuse to revive antisemitic persecution.

 

[Klatuu]

So why did the vast majority of refugees leave long before any Israeli troops came near?

The causes are pretty complex but the majority left because of fear spread by both sides.

Causes of the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But you don't really want to discuss anything that can't be used to blame Jews. You also don't want to discuss the million Arab Jews chased from their homes because the Arab states used Israel as an excuse to revive antisemitic persecution.

grandpa….only you would be stupid enough to cite a Palestinian historian who disproves everything you just tried to save face with. Your anti Palestinian bigotry just lowers your IQ. But that’s the same for all bigots.

 

[Frankfooter]

Ah, the bullshit discredited maps.

You've posted the map from Olmert's offer so stop playing dumb just because you are against the idea of Israel existing.

You can't even draw a possible two state solution on a map.
You claim its the way forward but are totally unable to even suggest a rudimentary plan.

You're trolling.
You know the two state solution is dead.

 

[Frankfooter]

It is really sad that you guys feel the need to make up history. The actuality was Arab anti-immigrant and anti-Jewish violence predated any Jewish terrorist groups. The anti-Jewish riots in 1919 and 1929 caused the UN to twice propose partition plans, both of which were rejected out of hand by the Arab and Palestinian leadership.

Those Arab mods ethnically cleansed the centuries old Jewish population of Hebron and later the Jordanian army ethnically cleansed any Jews in land the conquered around Jerusalem and in the Old City. You might want to pretend otherwise by the Jewish Quarter was called the Jewish Quarter because it had a significant Jewish population for centuries, long before the concept of zionism existed. In fact, at around the time that some Jews were coming up with the idea, the Ottoman census showed Jews were the largest ethnic group in Jerusalem.

You keep clinging to those racist takes on history, basketcase.
It won't help now that 60% of Canada says you are backing apartheid.

There is no historical justification for apartheid.
None.

 

[Frankfooter]

Nothing like pretending Hamas, PIJ, PFLP, Al Aqsa, and other serious Palestinian factions don't have the goal of eliminating the Jewish presence.

Back to Palestinian hate posting.

Its not justification for apartheid, stealing their land or the occupation.
There is no moral justification for the apartheid you defend.

 

[toguy5252]

Yes, within a one-state solution in which everyone has equal rights.



Lmao! The Arab's didn't sell the land to the Jews they were forced to by the British and given shit compensation. A more apt comparison would be if you forced the previous tenant to sell you his house at gun point for 1/3rd of the value.



1) I'm not saying the Jews should leave. On the contrary, I'm saying they should stay within a State that gives equal rights to everyone.
2) The indigenous are a fraction of our population today whereas Palestinians outnumber Israeli's and always have by a huge margin. Minority rule over a majority doesn't end well.

You and others keep making this point but I really have no idea why. There will NEVER be a one state solution. Diplomacy is the art of the doable and a one state solution Is not doable. When Palestinians accept this reality ther will be a chance for some resolution. Until then it will be status quo. Palestinian leaders have e been giving their people false hope for way too long. Sad.

 

[toguy5252]

It should be doable if Israel wasn't an ethnostate.

NEVER.

 

[toguy5252]

A one-state solution is certainly doable if the power players want it. The Israeli government doesn't want it and that's the only reason it hasn't happened.

NEVER. Isreal does not want it and it will never happen.