Rickards: Time To Get Real About Ukraine

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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The Leapard Tank escalation shows the death wish of dumb and ignorant western leaders. They think they do not have to get their hands dirty in their aggressive proxy war.
The West will have to directly engage with Russia once the inter-continental nuclear missiles start flying.
The West cannot make Putin cry. He will go down with the ship ...along with the rest of our universe.
Add nuclear fallout to your contingency plans.
Mother Russia is a proud nation. She will not fold.
I have not felt this way since the late 60's. This is a real and scarey threat to mankind.
The Poo won't do it. Russia is heavily outgunned.
 
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NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
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Whenever someone bitches about giving aid to Ukraine this is the image I have in my mind.
FF87D8_LEANeville ChamberlainNeville ChamberlainD-e23f88d.jpg


And if you are shitting on helping Ukraine and don't understand this picture, just shut the fuck up, you don't have the basic historical knowledge to have an informed position... no... stop it, get help.


We should be bloody grateful that the Ukrainians are willing to get that fucked up to fight off Russia, it's the least we can do to bankroll their efforts.

If anything we should be expanding ammo and parts productions on a mass scale.
We should have been inviting as many of them as possible to come over to train on western equipment, if we did, they would be ready by now to run the loads of surplus equipment we have.
We should employ NATO peacekeepers on the border between Ukraine and Belarus to free up Ukraine troops for both active front lines and their inactive borders with Russia proper.

I love this who, but Poutine had nukes. Yeah how many times has he used that line and nothing has happened. Oh if you send shit, we will nuke you. Oh if you consider letting Finland and Sweden into NATO, that's a nuking. If you bring back Night Court, that's a nuking. Facts are it would be a straight up suicide move by Poutine and he knows it, and apperently the Russian system is set up that's it's more complicated that Poutine going, fuck it, it's a good day to die. Even a few nukes and he is fucked, NATO will go Ape Shit, no more running away for Poutine to Venezuela, Argentina [there have been rumours] and I doubt even China or North Korea would take him. He fucked up but there is no reason to think he is literally insane.
 

richaceg

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Feb 11, 2009
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Richie, what's a country that fought 2 major western powers from 1945 through 1975 and got trashed over and over again and finally won the war?

We noticing any similarities here?
Did they really won the war? US pulling out of Vietnam and Russia eve tally pulling out of Ukraine is t winning...
 

mandrill

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Did they really won the war? US pulling out of Vietnam and Russia eve tally pulling out of Ukraine is t winning...
Yes, Richie. Vietnam won. It's in the history books. Go look it up.
 

mandrill

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Not really accurate to say that "Vietnam" won, since this was essentially a civil war that the US got involved in. More precisely, North Vietnam defeated South Vietnam. Since the US was allied with South Vietnam, and provided massive military support in both equipment and troops, you can certainly say that the US lost the war.
You can argue that South VN became a US client state at some point and it was the US's war. It would be an interesting argument as many Vietnamese certainly despised the communists.
As far as the war in Ukraine is concerned, I work and am good friends with a woman from Ukraine. She grew up in the Soviet Union and came to Canada about a year before the USSR collapsed when she was 24. We've talked several times about the war. She still has family in Kiev. She certainly believes that Russia is the aggressor and she despises Putin and says that the whole "denazification" thing the Russians are claiming is nonsense, and while she was not in particular a supporter of Zelensky she's come to admire him. She has told me though that Ukraine is in fact suffering far more casualties than gets reported by the western media.
I have a friend who left Lviv about 20 years ago and says the same thing.

Danny perceives everything through the lens that the US is an "imperialist power" and Russia is a "counter-imperialist power". And the Ukrainians essentially don't have opinions in Danny's elitist, pseudo-intellectual, spoiled westerner world view.
 

richaceg

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Yes, Richie. Vietnam won. It's in the history books. Go look it up.
Won morally...I grew up in a military family....my dad fought the Japanese in WW2....nobody wins wars...and the invaded country always loses more....civilians, infrastructures, etc etc...Vietnam didn't win a war...they simply stopped an invasion...It took Vietnam years to recover from that...When Russia leaves Ukraine, parts will be desolate...I'm pretty sure you can celebrate that Ukraine is "winning"....at least be realistic about what's happening...I'm no pro Russia...Putin is an unpredictable POS...I don't believe he's genuinely just supporting the pro Russian movement in Ukraine and isn't invading...I don't think he wants WW3...he simply wants a puppet gov't in Ukraine but he didn't get that with Zelensky....
 

mandrill

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Won morally...I grew up in a military family....my dad fought the Japanese in WW2....nobody wins wars...and the invaded country always loses more....civilians, infrastructures, etc etc...Vietnam didn't win a war...they simply stopped an invasion...It took Vietnam years to recover from that...When Russia leaves Ukraine, parts will be desolate...I'm pretty sure you can celebrate that Ukraine is "winning"....
Richie, I'm sure that the Ukrainians would prefer that the invasion hadn't happened.

Let's take a parallel. How about Russian itself in World War 2?.... Parts of the USSR got trashed. Belarus suffered 30%+ population genocide and had virtually ceased to exists as an urban, modern country by 1945. Would it be better if the USSR let the Germans win?.... No, because the Germans would simply have killed most of the remaining 70% of the population.

What would happen to Ukraine if Russia simply took it over?..... Well, so far mass deportations, murders, purges, punitive destruction of infrastructure. It's certain that these would only increase if Ukraine surrendered. And that leaves aside intangible losses, such as loss of democracy, freedoms, national self-determination and national self respect.

My mom got bombed out of her house in the UK in 1941. No one in her home town thought of surrendering to Hitler to avoid the German air force coming back again.
 
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richaceg

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Richie, I'm sure that the Ukrainians would prefer that the invasion hadn't happened.

Let's take a parallel. How about Russian itself in World War 2?.... Parts of the USSR got trashed. Belarus suffered 30%+ population genocide and had virtually ceased to exists as an urban, modern country by 1945. Would it be better if the USSR let the Germans win?.... No, because the Germans would simply have killed most of the remaining 70% of the population.

What would happen to Ukraine if Russia simply took it over?..... Well, so far mass deportations, murders, purges, punitive destruction of infrastructure. It's certain that these would only increase if Ukraine surrendered. And that leaves aside intangible losses, such as loss of democracy, freedoms, national self-determination and national self respect.

My mom got bombed out of her house in the UK in 1941. No one in her home town thought of surrendering to Hitler to avoid the German air force coming back again.
Nobody is discounting fighting to defend your motherland...nobody should celebrate war at all...I'm pretty sure that every breaking news out there about Ukraine kicking ass in this war is simply to keep the morale high...we're all outside looking in...but some are simply looking through rose colored glasses...Russia will keep throwing bodies and keep bombing until someone really had the balls to step in and say stop and that would be the start of world war...sanctions has proven to be ineffective because China got Russia's back...
 

danmand

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Danny perceives everything through the lens that the US is an "imperialist power" and Russia is a "counter-imperialist power". And the Ukrainians essentially don't have opinions in Danny's elitist, pseudo-intellectual, spoiled westerner world view.
I have asked you before not to tell me what I think or perceive.

You have no idea. And it is slandering of the worst kind.
 
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silentkisser

Master of Disaster
Jun 10, 2008
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So, I've read this thread and man....That first post is something else...

But, let's look at a few things: First, Russia's perceived military might is more akin to a paper tiger. In the 11 or so months of this conflict, we've seen:
  • Russia's inability to sustain an offensive.
  • Russia's horrible leadership, resulting in how many Generals being replaced?
  • Russian troops being poorly trained and having low to no morale.
  • Russia's vaunted armour superiority...which was being destroyed or captured at a crazy pace.
  • Russia's so-called next-generation weapons not being exactly ready for prime time, or in pathetically low numbers.
  • Russian intelligence failures, including the belief that Ukrainians would greet them as liberators or resistance fold really quickly.
  • Russia not believing the western allies would support Ukraine with weapons, intelligence and money.
  • Western Europe's ability to pivot and find alternative energy sources that have bypassed much of Russia's offerings.
Now, I'm not going to say Ukraine is going to win this conflict by kicking Russia out of its territory and re-capturing Crimea. But, I think it is possible. Russia has a history of taking massive casualties in war, and just grinding down their enemies. Will the Russian public freak out when they see the true carnage of its military forces? Unlikely...but possible.

What we should all take away from this is that this support of Ukraine is partly done to fuck Russia up, but also a warning to China to not fuck around and find out what would happen if they tried to take Taiwan. I'm positive that Xi Jinping is watching how the US and Europe swung into action so quickly and in lockstep. If the west just allowed Russia to do what it pleased, China might have thought that they could do that as well. First with Taiwan, maybe the Indian parts of the Himalayas next. This Russian clusterfuck must give them pause. After all, Russia is having issues invading a country that's on its land border....China would have to cross the Taiwan Straight, which is about 160 KM away...That's a much bigger challenge...

So, war sucks. It is horrible for the people of Ukraine to face daily death and destruction from an invading force. But, by actively stopping this aggression, the world could be spared a larger conflict.

Now, about nukes...I cannot see Putin using them at all. I mean, he wants to take Ukraine, not a radioactive wasteland. And, if he took the nuclear option, his life is over. If the sanctions against Russia are strict now....imagine what would happen after that. The only caveat to that is if Ukraine decides to invade Russia...which I cannot imagine happening for multiple reasons.
 
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y2kmark

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Did they really won the war? US pulling out of Vietnam and Russia eve tally pulling out of Ukraine is t winning...
Excellent point! Nobody ever really wins a war (the environmental costs alone - sheesh!). Guys like Jesus (the real one, not the white construct) and Buddha have been saying that for a long time...
 

danmand

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Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
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If Trump said the sky is sunny I'd get an umbrella ella ella ella eh eh and a raincoat.
It's so eeeasy, it's so eeeeaseeeeeeeeeeee,,
The sound of his own voice is making him crazzzzzzzzzzzieeeeeeeeee,.
Hooo-hooo, hoooo-hoooo .....
 
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jazzbox

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Jan 29, 2009
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Read DW news this morning reporting estimates that Russia has lost nearly 180.000 killed or wounded. That is pretty much the size of the original invasion force.
 

y2kmark

Class of 69...
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Oh please, doth tell us our Greatest and Most Rapturous Earthling Ever.

Does it involve Rapture and men from Mars eating cars?
He contemplates offering himself as a hostage, not being aware of how little value he actually has...
 

SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
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End the war... "so easy to do"!

Yeah, like your health care plan was so easy? "Nobody knew that health insurance was so complicated!"

What a fucking buffoon!

The only people more clownishly stupid are those who still have any tolerance for Trump and his nonsense 'policies'.
 

toguy5252

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2009
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End the war... "so easy to do"!

Yeah, like your health care plan was so easy? "Nobody knew that health insurance was so complicated!"

What a fucking buffoon!

The only people more clownishly stupid are those who still have any tolerance for Trump and his nonsense 'policies'.
Of course it is easy and only he can do it. Just look how easily and quickly he solved the Israeli/Palestinian issue.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Nobody is discounting fighting to defend your motherland...nobody should celebrate war at all...I'm pretty sure that every breaking news out there about Ukraine kicking ass in this war is simply to keep the morale high...we're all outside looking in...but some are simply looking through rose colored glasses...Russia will keep throwing bodies and keep bombing until someone really had the balls to step in and say stop and that would be the start of world war...sanctions has proven to be ineffective because China got Russia's back...
But there's an effective limit on what Russia can do. Even a super-efficient country like the USA can't make an army out of nothing. It took from January 1942 until Spring 1944 for the States to produce a large enough army to invade France and the US didn't have Russia's massive problems of corruption and political in-fighting.

Each new wave of mobilization destabilizes Russia more. And each will be less and less effective as the trained cadre of the Russian army dies off more and more. You can't bayonet charge maching gun nests; yet this is now the main tactic of the untrained Russian infantry and the reason why their losses are so astronomical. Eventually, they will become militarily impotent and politically chaotic. And then Ukraine will take back its territory.
 
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