Maine School Social Worker Secretly Gender-Transitioned 13-Year-Old Girl with Chest binder to flatten her breast.

[Valcazar]

There are several articles about students transitioning back. Every situation is different

What do either of these articles have to do with detransitioning?

Yes, the child chose to disclose the details of the meetings. There is no privacy on the child's side anymore.

Where are you getting that?
The mother never said the child disclosed the details of the meetings.
None of the articles say that.
The mother says that the child (after they found the binder) said the Social Worker gave them the binder and that they were encouraged to keep it secret from the mom.
How is that disclosing "the details of the meetings"?

But here we are with the school denying them.

The mom came to a meeting, demanded the notes and that everyone who knew about it had to be fired.
Also she is accusing the Social Worker of "grooming" her child.
We haven't heard from the kid at all.
The mom is supposedly getting a lawyer and suing.

The mom also is executive director of a mental health group/clinic and so presumably knows the laws about disclosure.

I suspect whether or not any notes (and which ones) should be made public will come out in litigation.

What I mean is how are they coming to all these conclusions on policies and law against parents? How is that fair and who's to say at what length this goes to?

What due process is being denied the parents here?
There are school policies, state policies, and federal policies. All of which get discussed openly and are made public.
The parent here was able to come to an open school board meeting and protest the policy.
She was able to take her kid out of the school.

What due process was she denied?

You can't just violate a parents rights. At the end of the day who is responsible for them?

No one thinks you can just "violate a parents rights".
What right do you think has been violated?
Also, when rights are in conflict, decisions get made.
If you want to argue that the decision in this case was the wrong one, go ahead and argue it.
Unfortunately, since we have no real facts, that's hard to do since we don't know the truth.

If you want to argue - as it seems you do - that parents rights trump everyone else's in all situations, then argue that.

In both cases, expect people to disagree with you because people have different views about these things.

If you transition a child behind a parents back and something goes wrong, what do you say to the parent? "Oops, My Bad!"???

Interesting phrasing - "transitioned the child"?
You still are convinced this was a case of the Social Worker forcing/coercing/convincing the child to transition and the child had no say in it.
I presume you also are convinced that this was done "behind the parents' back" for no reason and without any build up or reasoning.

But we don't actually know that to be the case.

But I completely agree with you - the school has a responsibility to the child, the parent, and the community.
If this is a case of the school or social worker "going rogue" it's a big deal.

What exactly do you envision as "going wrong" here, btw?

I don't even know what this means.

You're the one who brought up the idea that the social worker or transgender people are justifying things with "We're Transgender, we can do what we want."
I am asking you if any defense given out by the school actually says this or secretly means this according to you.
Do you actually think that this is the justification people are relying on?

The child went from one social worker to another. He is still employed as a social worker there.

Was the previous person also a social worker and not a counselor, since you seem to be very insistent on the job title?

 

[Frankfooter]

Fair.
Short version.

I think neither the parent nor the school gets 100% control and that there are going to be places where the two disagree what is in the best interests of the child.
Yes, the burden of justification when intervening without the parent or against the parent's wishes should be fairly high.

Absolutely.
If you use a couple of extreme examples:

a) a kid has abusive parents and needs protection - you can't call the parents
b) a kid appears dangerous, talks of killing people and weapons - you call the parents and the cops

A kid going to a school counsellor because they are considering transition means that they likely have parents who they think will be dead set against it. So either you have to argue that the parents rights outstrip the kids right to choose their sexual preferences or you have to argue the kid, even though not a legal adult, has the right to choose their own sexual identity. Obviously I fall in the latter group. The parents who the kid can't talk to could be heavily religious or conservative or just ignorant. But they'd also have to be pretty clueless not to see this in their own kid. Nothing the parents can do will change a kid who identifies as gay, and therapy otherwise is now illegal.

 

[krealtarron]

Absolutely.
If you use a couple of extreme examples:

a) a kid has abusive parents and needs protection - you can't call the parents
b) a kid appears dangerous, talks of killing people and weapons - you call the parents and the cops

A kid going to a school counsellor because they are considering transition means that they likely have parents who they think will be dead set against it. So either you have to argue that the parents rights outstrip the kids right to choose their sexual preferences or you have to argue the kid, even though not a legal adult, has the right to choose their own sexual identity. Obviously I fall in the latter group. The parents who the kid can't talk to could be heavily religious or conservative or just ignorant. But they'd also have to be pretty clueless not to see this in their own kid. Nothing the parents can do will change a kid who identifies as gay, and therapy otherwise is now illegal.

A 13 year old doesn't know their gender identity. Heck, at 13, you dont know your own body even from a sexual standpoint. So a decision to transition should not be encouraged. Rather a wait and watch approach should be taken and the parents informed.

Anyone who says otherwise regarding gender identity, is just pushing liberal mumbo jumbo.

 

[Frankfooter]

A 13 year old doesn't know their gender identity. Heck, at 13, you dont know your own body even from a sexual standpoint. So a decision to transition should not be encouraged. Rather a wait and watch approach should be taken and the parents informed.

Anyone who says otherwise regarding gender identity, is just pushing liberal mumbo jumbo.

Clearly you haven't talked to 13 year olds.

 

[krealtarron]

Clearly you haven't talked to 13 year olds.

Yeah I have only raised 3. You clearly dont have kids.

 

[mellowjello]

Yeah I have only raised 3. You clearly dont have kids.

It's amazing, it's always the ones who don't have kids that have all the answers.

 

[curr3n_c1000]

Hilarious.

Social Worker Who Secretly Coached 13-Year-Old Girl into Gender Transition Will Keep Public School Job

A Damariscotta public school social worker who attempted to secretly transition a 13-year-old female student into a boy without her mother’s knowledge will remain an employee of the Great Salt Bay Community School. AOS 93 Superintendent Lynsey Johnston confirmed to the Maine Wire at a school...

www.themainewire.com

By encouraging Lavigne’s daughter to begin a gender transition without informing Lavigne, Roy appears to have violated at least two district policies.

According to publicly available district policies, school personnel are supposed to call a meeting of stakeholders when students express symptoms of gender dysphoria or who show signs of gender confusion. In those meetings, multiple school employees and the student’s parents or guardians are supposed to develop a plan best suited for the student.

That meeting never happened with Lavigne’s daughter, and it’s not clear why. School officials haven’t said anything that might clarify the issue.

The other policy Roy appears to have violated involves asking students to keep secrets.

According to the policy, school employees are prohibited from asking students to keep secrets.

But that’s exactly what Roy asked of Lavigne’s daughter, according to Lavigne.

Everything I said in this thread is correct.

 

[Frankfooter]

Yeah I have only raised 3. You clearly dont have kids.

I'd hazard a guess that your kids would never have talked to you if they were thinking of transitioning.

 

[mellowjello]

Hilarious.

Social Worker Who Secretly Coached 13-Year-Old Girl into Gender Transition Will Keep Public School Job

A Damariscotta public school social worker who attempted to secretly transition a 13-year-old female student into a boy without her mother’s knowledge will remain an employee of the Great Salt Bay Community School. AOS 93 Superintendent Lynsey Johnston confirmed to the Maine Wire at a school...

www.themainewire.com

Everything I said in this thread is correct.

And the social worker, conditionally licensed and basically an under-grad, will still keep his job.
This is beyond comprehension.
My lawyers would be all over the school board and the "social worker".

 

[mellowjello]

I'd hazard a guess that your kids would never have talked to you if they were thinking of transitioning.

He's got kids and you don't, so I guess that still qualifies you as a know-it-all when it comes to kids.
Still judging the parents eh Frank.
Hey what do you think about your social worker now? Still not as bad as the parents in your eyes right?

 

[Valcazar]

A 13 year old doesn't know their gender identity. Heck, at 13, you dont know your own body even from a sexual standpoint. So a decision to transition should not be encouraged. Rather a wait and watch approach should be taken and the parents informed.

Anyone who says otherwise regarding gender identity, is just pushing liberal mumbo jumbo.

You are going to have to define what you mean by a "wait and watch" approach in this context, since I know very well it get used in different ways.
(I'm curious about your choice of the word "encouraged" here as well, but will wait to see how you define "watch and wait" before commenting further.)

 

[Frankfooter]

He's got kids and you don't, so I guess that still qualifies you as a know-it-all when it comes to kids.
Still judging the parents eh Frank.
Hey what do you think about your social worker now? Still not as bad as the parents in your eyes right?

I don't talk about my private life here.
The first article, by the same paper, which appears to be the only one writing about this, said the counsellor was operating under school board rules.
Now they say he wasn't.
That makes the reporting suspect.

You need third party verification of what happened and what the board rules are now.

 

[Valcazar]

Hilarious.

Social Worker Who Secretly Coached 13-Year-Old Girl into Gender Transition Will Keep Public School Job

A Damariscotta public school social worker who attempted to secretly transition a 13-year-old female student into a boy without her mother’s knowledge will remain an employee of the Great Salt Bay Community School. AOS 93 Superintendent Lynsey Johnston confirmed to the Maine Wire at a school...

www.themainewire.com

Everything I said in this thread is correct.

It may turn out to be true, although it then begs the question why they didn't simply fire Roy on the spot for violating policy if this is nothing but Roy going rogue.
Why the previous social worker, here identified as Jessica A. Allen-Fumarola, hasn't spoken up is also curious. After all, she could immediately point out that the child had never spoken of transitioning or that in fact the child has been repeatedly talking about transitioning this whole time.

One of the many curious things about this is that Lavigne new her child had been assigned to a new social worker.
Why did the switch happen? What was wrong with Allen-Fumarola?

We're still waiting on the school to give any side of the story here, as opposed to simply not commenting.
I had hoped we would get something in this January meeting, but now the "the school is just covering its ass" story has some plausibility.
All that seems to have been released is “When administrators receive concerns from parents and/or students about potential issues in school, the board has specific policies and procedures in place that must be followed when addressing those concerns. "

The problem is that we have basically no coverage of the situation.
We have the mainewire, which has a clear editorial position on the situation, and the local weekly (which reported on the first meeting, but not the most recent one)

Any real journalistic inquiry would get on record what the hell those "specific policies and procedures" were and what they meant in terms of why the school board isn't answering and when answers would be forthcoming. We're not going to get that from the mainewire - which clearly wants to demagogue this for culture war hits, and the Lincoln County News doesn't looks like it does investigative reporting of any kind.

My little sojourn into the local reporting on the issue did bring up this recent policy by a neighboring school board - (https://www.themainewire.com/2022/1...-gender-identity-changes-secret-from-parents/) - explicitly stating when and why the school might not tell the parents.

What would be interesting is if the school district had an unwritten policy similar to their neighboring board's and Roy was following that even though it hadn't been formally adopted.
That could explain some of the behavior here.

Now that there are signs this isn't just right wing media whipping up culture war froth (although that still might be all it is) and that there are some genuine mysteries due to the slack reporting, I'm even more curious about what the real story is here.

 

[krealtarron]

You are going to have to define what you mean by a "wait and watch" approach in this context, since I know very well it get used in different ways.
(I'm curious about your choice of the word "encouraged" here as well, but will wait to see how you define "watch and wait" before commenting further.)

Wait till they are 18 or of legal age and then see how they feel about it, and then if they want it go ahead and transition, medically or otherwise.

 

[mellowjello]

I don't talk about my private life here.
The first article, by the same paper, which appears to be the only one writing about this, said the counsellor was operating under school board rules.
Now they say he wasn't.
That makes the reporting suspect.

You need third party verification of what happened and what the board rules are now.

So, your concern is the reporting, not the fact that the "social worker" hired by the board violated board policies,
secretly transitioning a young girl without the parents' knowledge.
You think he should still keep his job with the board, or are you still worried about the maga dad?

 

[krealtarron]

So, your concern is the reporting, not the fact that the "social worker" hired by the board violated board policies,
secretly transitioning a young girl without the parents' knowledge.
You think he should still keep his job with the board, or are you still worried about the maga dad?

You would think whether or not one has kids, it would be common sense for people to support keeping the parents informed. But apparently, being pro-trans and liberal trumps common sense.

 

[Frankfooter]

So, your concern is the reporting, not the fact that the "social worker" hired by the board violated board policies,
secretly transitioning a young girl without the parents' knowledge.
You think he should still keep his job with the board, or are you still worried about the maga dad?

Yes, the reporting in the first article said the counsellor was abiding by board policy while this one says they weren't.
Clearly one is wrong, we don't know which.

I didn't ever say the kid had a MAGA father, either.

Do you think one of your kids could want to transition or start transition without you knowing?

 

[curr3n_c1000]

It may turn out to be true, although it then begs the question why they didn't simply fire Roy on the spot for violating policy if this is nothing but Roy going rogue.
Why the previous social worker, here identified as Jessica A. Allen-Fumarola, hasn't spoken up is also curious. After all, she could immediately point out that the child had never spoken of transitioning or that in fact the child has been repeatedly talking about transitioning this whole time.

One of the many curious things about this is that Lavigne new her child had been assigned to a new social worker.
Why did the switch happen? What was wrong with Allen-Fumarola?

We're still waiting on the school to give any side of the story here, as opposed to simply not commenting.
I had hoped we would get something in this January meeting, but now the "the school is just covering its ass" story has some plausibility.
All that seems to have been released is “When administrators receive concerns from parents and/or students about potential issues in school, the board has specific policies and procedures in place that must be followed when addressing those concerns. "

The problem is that we have basically no coverage of the situation.
We have the mainewire, which has a clear editorial position on the situation, and the local weekly (which reported on the first meeting, but not the most recent one)

Any real journalistic inquiry would get on record what the hell those "specific policies and procedures" were and what they meant in terms of why the school board isn't answering and when answers would be forthcoming. We're not going to get that from the mainewire - which clearly wants to demagogue this for culture war hits, and the Lincoln County News doesn't looks like it does investigative reporting of any kind.

My little sojourn into the local reporting on the issue did bring up this recent policy by a neighboring school board - (https://www.themainewire.com/2022/1...-gender-identity-changes-secret-from-parents/) - explicitly stating when and why the school might not tell the parents.

What would be interesting is if the school district had an unwritten policy similar to their neighboring board's and Roy was following that even though it hadn't been formally adopted.
That could explain some of the behavior here.

Now that there are signs this isn't just right wing media whipping up culture war froth (although that still might be all it is) and that there are some genuine mysteries due to the slack reporting, I'm even more curious about what the real story is here.

lol 2 hours ago you were a diehard child privacy above all advocate.

And you know damn well why Sam Roy wasn't fired. I explained everything in this thread.

 

[curr3n_c1000]

And the social worker, conditionally licensed and basically an under-grad, will still keep his job.
This is beyond comprehension.
My lawyers would be all over the school board and the "social worker".

Hopefully she sues and get a huge payout. What they did to the child can be damaging for the rest of her life.

Too many things were done wrong for it to be a coincidence.

Anyone exercising a bit of commen sense could tell something was wrong.

 

[krealtarron]

Hopefully she sues and get a huge payout. What they did to the child can be damaging for the rest of her life.

Too many things were done wrong for it to be a coincidence.

Anyone exercising a bit of commen sense could tell something was wrong.

People dont think about the fact that a 13 year old is very impressionable.

Many kids in my school - boys were effeminate, girls were tomboyish. But this sort of culture didn't exist then. They eventually grew up into cis men and women and are happy with families and kids. You dont put ideas into a 13 year old kids head, in this day and age with the kind of woke culture that dominates our schools and colleges. Wait, watch and if at a legal age they are still feeling that way, then yes, go ahead and do whats right for you. And keep parents informed. Dont know why this is unacceptable.