Doug Ford starts privatizing health care

[Frankfooter]

First, Ford's government knew its own bill 124 was making health care worse for Ontario and driving out nurses.

Ford government documents admit low wages, Bill 124 worsening health staffing issues

Then Ford started cutting telehealth and replacing its services with those by Loblaw's owners and big party supporters.

‘Canada Proud’ Donor’s For-Profit ‘Virtual Health’ Service is Lobbying Doug Ford For a COVID-19 Contract

Lobbyist records show private ‘virtual’ healthcare company signed up to lobby Doug Ford’s office about securing a COVID-19 contract

pressprogress.ca

Now he wants to privatize more surgeries.

Doug Ford’s private surgery centre proposal will hurt hospitals, doctors’ college warns

Concerns over loss of staff and waits times for urgent care will grow if the premier goes through with his plan to help clear a backlog from the COVID-19 pandemic, warns the regulatory body for Ontario’s doctors.

www.thestar.com

Ford's donors will get rich and Ontario gets 18 waits for telehealth, overcrowded hospitals and surgeries for profit.

 

[Hedley Lamar]

Healthcare nationwide is taking a kick in the balls.

2 deaths in nova Scotia because of wait times and short staff.

‘Shock, sadness, anger’: Another N.S. woman dies after 7-hour ER wait, family says | Globalnews.ca

A Nova Scotia woman has launched a website in honour of her late mother-in-law, to encourage Nova Scotians to share their stories about the healthcare system.

globalnews.ca

 

[krealtarron]

I personally support a 2 tier system. Specialist wait times are nuts and the quality of health care in Canada is absurd compared to the US.

So a 2 tier system would ensure quick access for people who are willing to pay and OHIP would stay for everyone. I also think OHIP should be expanded to include dental coverage.

But of course we need more doctors. Maybe incentivize doctors to immigrate.

 

[Darts]

Rich Canadians are going to the U.S. anyway. A two tier system would keep Canadians and their doctors and money in Canada. Ever notice how quickly Leaf and Blue Jay players get MRI's?

The problem we have now is a shortage of doctors and nurses. A two tier system improves the chances of them staying in Canada.

 

[The Oracle]

I personally support a 2 tier system. Specialist wait times are nuts and the quality of health care in Canada is absurd compared to the US.

So a 2 tier system would ensure quick access for people who are willing to pay and OHIP would stay for everyone. I also think OHIP should be expanded to include dental coverage.

But of course we need more doctors. Maybe incentivize doctors to immigrate.

Agree 100%....I still have no problem if they want to tax me more as long as it goes directly into health care.

 

[Frankfooter]

A two tier system would mean that money would be drained from the public system, more sick poor people, more waits for people who can't afford it and the start of american style health care issues up here.
It'll mean more health insurance deductions from pay checks so less money going into your pocket.

 

[Frankfooter]

Having seen the gifts he's handling his developer friends, I'm not sure that I trust Doug Ford with this file. Having said that, most of the best and most affordable health systems in the world (Sweden, Norway, Australia, Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand, etc.) are in various ways a mix of public and private, so 2-tiered health care is not the boogey-man that many Canadians on the left make it out to be. And 2-tiered health care already exists here anyway. I can remember the consternation within the NDP years ago when it turned out that Jack Layton had hernia surgery at the Shouldice Hospital in Toronto - a private clinic.

In Canada we've created this illusion that universal health care means no private health care (which must create a lot of cognitive dissonance because many of us carry around health cards from private health insurance companies because we know that many things in the health system are not publicly covered) and it's treated as almost heresy to even mention 2-tiered health care, even though it already exists. I think we should be upfront about it and make sure the system works rather than circling the wagons around a completely public health system that doesn't exist.

Our problem is that we only contrast ourselves with the complete mess that is health care in the USA (where you'll be fine if you have lots of money, but if you don't - watch out!) and forget that there are all sorts of other possible models for health care.

That's a fair argument on both sides.
What we have seen is that Bill 124 and the tele health moves have made health care much worse in the province already.
There is no reason to think that he'll make it any better in the future.

 

[Soccersweeper]

I agree with you about Ford. I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him. I'm just saying that there needs to be more openness to the principle of 2-tiered health care because it works very well in many countries of the world that have better health care system than Canada.

Agreed. Health care needs to be more mixed like in Europe which has better and cheaper care. The problem is Ford fucks everything up that he touches so you know this won't go well. It may be true that no one has to pay out of pocket because of what he's doing, but you know care quality will go down as staff and resources leave the public system which he refuses to fund properly. The auditor general found he withheld $2 billion from health care during the pandemic of all times, and now we see Ford bragging about a $2 billion surplus. There's his priority. Love him or hate him, Trudeau is right to insist on some basic fucking standards before handing all these Con Premiers more health dollars. Remember what Ford said, "The Liberals will destroy this Province." Nah brah, you're doing that just fine on your own as hospitals have to call in the army or the Red Cross to keep things barely working.

 

[hamermill]

Is dental care free?
Is going to a massage therapist free?
Is going to physical therapy free?
You can get a hernia repaired in a couple of weeks?
You can get cataracts fixed privately in a couple of weeks?
It takes 6 months to a year to get a MRI.
Cancer care (which we all know is not fatal) wait times is at least 1 year.
Voluntary surgery (knee, hip) wait times is several months - who needs to walk.

Remember the Liberals were in power for 15 years. They had the ability to address some of the structural defects.

Something things to factor in...

 

[Darts]

Having said that, most of the best and most affordable health systems in the world (Sweden, Norway, Australia, Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand, etc.) are in various ways a mix of public and private, so 2-tiered health care is not the boogey-man that many Canadians on the left make it out to be. And 2-tiered health care already exists here anyway. I can remember the consternation within the NDP years ago when it turned out that Jack Layton had hernia surgery at the Shouldice Hospital in Toronto - a private clinic.

Canada basically already has two tier health services. The second tier is the U.S.

 

[Moneyclutch]

Rich Canadians are going to the U.S. anyway. A two tier system would keep Canadians and their doctors and money in Canada. Ever notice how quickly Leaf and Blue Jay players get MRI's?

The problem we have now is a shortage of doctors and nurses. A two tier system improves the chances of them staying in Canada.

Leafs, Jay's and Raps maintain their own MRI and staff that they let public use when not in use.

 

[Darts]

Leafs, Jay's and Raps maintain their own MRI and staff that they let public use when not in use.

Interesting. Who in the "public" gets to use the MRI?

 

[Moneyclutch]

Interesting. Who in the "public" gets to use the MRI?

In tandem with a hospital. No idea which one

 

[Insidious Von]

Not true about the MRI, I got one a week after my car accident. I got a second one at the request of the neurologist, I believe I waited eight working days for that one. Who knows maybe Ford changed the landscape. I got lucky, my physiology saved me from paralysis, I'm all traps no neck.

A hard Two Tier system doesn't work, it turns into a money pit over time. They tried it in Australia, the private system was siphoning money from the public system. With insurance companies paying a fraction of the costs, the private clinics were going bankrupt without government assistance...bleeding the public system of revenue.

I don't put much faith in Ottawa doling out more money to the Provinces for Health Care, most of that money will be used by ruling Provincial Parties to stay in power.

 

[Darts]

I think the MRI's are used based on severity of need.

My scheduled MRI was re-scheduled because they had to first do folks in a serious auto accident.

 

[Insidious Von]

Presently Alberta's Health Care System is collapsing, lock him up, lock him up, lock him up....

 

[krealtarron]

A two tier system would mean that money would be drained from the public system, more sick poor people, more waits for people who can't afford it and the start of american style health care issues up here.
It'll mean more health insurance deductions from pay checks so less money going into your pocket.

Why would it drain money from the public system ?

 

[Soccersweeper]

Is dental care free?
Is going to a massage therapist free?
Is going to physical therapy free?
You can get a hernia repaired in a couple of weeks?
You can get cataracts fixed privately in a couple of weeks?
It takes 6 months to a year to get a MRI.
Cancer care (which we all know is not fatal) wait times is at least 1 year.
Voluntary surgery (knee, hip) wait times is several months - who needs to walk.

Remember the Liberals were in power for 15 years. They had the ability to address some of the structural defects.

Something things to factor in...

True enough but the political climate at the time was demanding cuts to keep the budget deficit low, with the Cons being the chief cheerleaders. Classic Canadian problem - people want Cadillac services but want to pay Buick prices. I will guarantee though that Wynne or whoever's Liberal government wouldn't have targeted nurses pay or withheld spending during COVID. It was federal liberal spending that kept the provinces and everyone else afloat and which juiced the economy so that the provinces could have surpluses instead of monster deficits. Remember the previous Cons under Harris and Eve's were the ones who said nurses were as useful as hula hoops and had nurses shuttling between hospitals during SARS, spreading it further. Cons don't change.

 

[Soccersweeper]

Why would it drain money from the public system ?

Same as happens in the education system. Workers will leave for better pay and conditions, including the more experienced ones, leaving the public system with the has-beens and never- weres. Plus the provincial funding would follow.

 

[Soccersweeper]

Presently Alberta's Health Care System is collapsing, lock him up, lock him up, lock him up....

That's a woman my good man