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Socialism Sounds Good On Paper But It Was Deadly For The Pilgrims

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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I’m in favour of more socialism like hospitals, schools, libraries, mass transit, police, firefighters, etc but pot luck dinners are often a disaster.
Too many salads and desserts at the first Thanksgiving, not enough meat.
The tragedy of commons often plays itself out in an abundance of potato dishes.
 
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JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Do you think the gap was created by socialist measures? It was created by the lack of socialist measures.

The gap was created by over capitalism. And it is widening even more.

narrowing the gap so everyone is poor is such a foolish strategy

if the Thomson family doubles their wealth , it has no impact on you
if the Thomson family halves their wealth , it has no impact on you
 
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jalimon

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Jan 10, 2016
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narrowing the gap so everyone is poor is such a foolish strategy

if the Thomson family doubles their wealth , it has no impact on you
if the Thomson family halves their wealth , it has no impact on you
America was great when the gap was more equal.

When the middle class was ruling and not struggling.

The goal is not to have everyone poor it's to make sure everyone can cover the basic so we do not end up in crazy violence because too many just can't make it.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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narrowing the gap so everyone is poor is such a foolish strategy

if the Thomson family doubles their wealth , it has no impact on you
if the Thomson family halves their wealth , it has no impact on you
Sure it does.
It takes taxes out of the system that could pay for roads, schools, health care.....

If the Thomson family doubles the pay of their workers that money goes into the system to buy things and pay for taxes on roads, schools.....
 

Addict2sex

Well-known member
Jan 29, 2017
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Stop with comparison to Venezuela it makes you look like an idiot.

Venezuela did not fell out of socialism. It fell out of an authoritarian regime. Similar to the one Trump wanted.
Daniel Di Martino - How Socialism Destroyed Venezuela




PS. ! He lived in Venezuela and experienced first hand of socialism. He tell you how socialism destroyed
Venezuela. Venezuela went from one of the richest countries in South America to one of the poorest.
 
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Perry Mason

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2001
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Here
“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.” ― G.K. Chesterton

The same is true of socialism.

Perry
 

stinkynuts

Super
Jan 4, 2005
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Most advanced countries have socialism of some sort. Medicine, retirement plans, military funding, etc. USA has Medicare and social security.
Communism is the issue. However, Fox News has its viewers believing socialism is communism. Thus they describe the evils of socialism, but they really are describing communism not socialism.
Exactly. No government is 100% one form. They are all hybrids, and that’s because each form if government has good elements that are sensible and beneficial to the people.
 
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JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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America was great when the gap was more equal.

When the middle class was ruling and not struggling.

The goal is not to have everyone poor it's to make sure everyone can cover the basic so we do not end up in crazy violence because too many just can't make it.

you do not have a clue what made America great
risk taking & the pursuit of wealth


When the middle class was ruling and not struggling.
you do not have a clue what struggling is

todays middle class is far better off than the middle class when "America was great "
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Stop with comparison to Venezuela it makes you look like an idiot.
stop ignoring the reality of Venezuela it makes you look like an idiot.

Venezuela did not fell out of socialism. It fell out of an authoritarian regime. Similar to the one Trump wanted.
socialism will always result in an authoritarian regime.
just ask a Russian, Cuban Chinese or Korean
 

Gooseifur

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2019
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Do you think the gap was created by socialist measures? It was created by the lack of socialist measures.

The gap was created by over capitalism. And it is widening even more.
It could possibly be created by socialist measures. When you give people money to do nothing it takes away their incentive to work and better themselves. That's not the case for everyone but there are quite a few people more than happy to live off the government dole.
 
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toguy5252

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Jun 22, 2009
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To suggest that socialism "resulted" in authoritarian regimes in Russia, Cuba, China or Korea ignores the fact that all four of them had authoritarian regimes before they became socialist. Ever heard of the Tsar? Fulgencio Batista? Venezuela has been burdened by massive corruption through much of its history, including its more or less "democratic" phase from c. 1960-2010, which damaged democratic ideals. Prior to that Venezuela had seen a succession of authoritarian military regimes for most of its history.

Most countries today are neither purely capitalist nor purely socialist. The best balance of the two exists in many European countries, which are very prosperous and anything but authoritarian.

Extremism on either side of the spectrum inevitably leads to authoritarian government because extremists, by their very nature, see their political adversaries as enemies to be stopped and silenced rather than as opponents to be debated.
To call what we have in the west true capitalism is to demonstrate that one does not understand what capitalism is. It is also the case that today the momentum toward authoritarianism is from the right. Notwithstanding the comments of some Jan 6 was not a tourist event. Just ask MTG
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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stop ignoring the reality of Venezuela it makes you look like an idiot.
socialism will always result in an authoritarian regime.
just ask a Russian, Cuban Chinese or Korean
This isn't a binary discussion.
Its about shades of grey.

You like socialism when its free schools, public roads, police and health care.
You're against socialism when you have to pay for those services.

All countries have some form and quite a few EU countries do it much better than we do.
 

Gooseifur

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2019
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America was great when the gap was more equal.

When the middle class was ruling and not struggling.

The goal is not to have everyone poor it's to make sure everyone can cover the basic so we do not end up in crazy violence because too many just can't make it.
Exactly, the goal is for everyone to be able to just get by so you always have to count on the government to help you so they can secure your votes and to hold onto what is truly important to them. Power
 

silentkisser

Master of Disaster
Jun 10, 2008
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I agree with most of what you said but as socialism has become more entrenched in modern society the gap between the rich and poor is even larger, No?

Yes, but that's more on the capitalism side. Look at the US. They have a MASSIVE divide between the rich and poor. They have little socialist programs. Trump's big achievement when he was president was passing a tax cut that helped the rich. They thrived with that, and, as we've seen time and time again, trickle down economics Does. Not. Work. All it's done since Regan implemented it was build wealth for the already wealthy, and depress wages and growth for the lower and middle class. This divide exists in every country, but you'll see it is much smaller around the world. But, it should also be mentioned that other countries, including Canada, have given tax breaks to the wealthy and to big businesses...But instead of increasing worker pay, or even investing in the company....they do share buy-backs to help inflate the stock price and increase shareholder value....

Look, I'm not saying the successful shouldn't be rich. What I am saying is that they should pay the same tax rate that everybody does. Imagine what the world could do with that money? Drastically reduce hunger, provide shelter for the homeless, deal with the mental health crisis, reduce poverty, invest in infrastructure, have top notch education systems. Instead, we see the ultra rich buy yachts or sports teams...or buy social media programs to spread lies about socialism or vaccines...
 

silentkisser

Master of Disaster
Jun 10, 2008
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Elon is the poster boy of free market thinking.

He went in, fired 75% of twitter's workers, gave the rest ultimatums and now has beds in the unoccupied offices for the serfs left working for him.
Singlehandedly he went and undid a hundred years of woke and socialist policies at his new office.
And the result is a total shit show, twitter will go under, advertisers are leaving, tesla is sinking and he's now a total laughing stock.

Twitter is the perfect example of right wing free market ideals.
So true. And, because of this debacle, he is no longer the richest man in the world. All that being said, I am seriously wondering when Tesla shareholders are going to ask him WTF is going on? Those shares have plunged over 60% from its 52-week high...When will the board step in? The CEO appears to be burning his time and money on a vanity project...Will the knives come out?
 

Gooseifur

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Aug 13, 2019
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Yes, but that's more on the capitalism side. Look at the US. They have a MASSIVE divide between the rich and poor. They have little socialist programs. Trump's big achievement when he was president was passing a tax cut that helped the rich. They thrived with that, and, as we've seen time and time again, trickle down economics Does. Not. Work. All it's done since Regan implemented it was build wealth for the already wealthy, and depress wages and growth for the lower and middle class. This divide exists in every country, but you'll see it is much smaller around the world. But, it should also be mentioned that other countries, including Canada, have given tax breaks to the wealthy and to big businesses...But instead of increasing worker pay, or even investing in the company....they do share buy-backs to help inflate the stock price and increase shareholder value....

Look, I'm not saying the successful shouldn't be rich. What I am saying is that they should pay the same tax rate that everybody does. Imagine what the world could do with that money? Drastically reduce hunger, provide shelter for the homeless, deal with the mental health crisis, reduce poverty, invest in infrastructure, have top notch education systems. Instead, we see the ultra rich buy yachts or sports teams...or buy social media programs to spread lies about socialism or vaccines...
Well you can blame the divide between rich and poor on Trump if you want but it grew under Obama and Biden as well. Let's not pretend this is a party issue. Do you know why they get away with not paying taxes? It's because of the tax code the governments wrote to let them get away with it. Do you know how much is paid by the rich?


.

How much more should they pay?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Well you can blame the divide between rich and poor on Trump if you want but it grew under Obama and Biden as well. Let's not pretend this is a party issue. Do you know why they get away with not paying taxes? It's because of the tax code the governments wrote to let them get away with it. Do you know how much is paid by the rich?

How much more should they pay?
The blame should lie in the US allowing lobbyists so much influence politically.
When leaders don't have to worry about votes, just cash, they won't act on behalf of voters.
 
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