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In the 21st century, anti-Zionism means anti-Semitism

basketcase

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25%?? The rest must suffer from the "our shit can't stink" syndrome...
Who wants to be labelled as 'self hating'?
Ah, the usual conflation of American Jews and Israel. Instead of accepting that non-Israeli Jews have their own opinion, you assign blame to them for your dislike of Israel. Asking American Jew's opinions on Israel is no more significant to anything other than asking American Catholics their opinions about Italy.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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BDS does not promote a peace plan. Their STATED goal would mean Palestinians are part of a One State peace which isn't something either the leadership or the politicians want. If you actually cared about Palestinians, you'd realize that it would leave Palestinians stuck with something they don't want and no rationale for change.

The reality is both you and the founders of the BDS movement see it only as a step towards the elimination of the Jewish presence.
This is wacko, hate speech.
You're accusing BDS of wanting ethnic cleansing or genocide, that's nutso.

What this speaks of is your fear that Israel can't exist without brutal, apartheid rule.
Personally, I think your hatred of others is out of control, you seem to think that both Israelis and Palestinians can't do what so many other countries can do, live together after strife.
Very colonial of you.

It is also clear that you don't care about Palestinian desires because you have openly stated you think Israel needs to unilaterally implement a peace plan without even consulting Palestinians.
No, Israel won't ever implement a peace plan, which is why I support BDS.
Lets let Palestinians and the international community do what Israelis won't.

The only way forward is to push a NEGOTIATED peace, something the UN (which you claim to support) agrees with.
Not any more, there have been no peace talks for nearly a decade because the last, 20 year round, of peace talks only resulted in more 'facts on the ground'.
Which leaves BDS as the only peaceful way forward.


Instead you keep trying to defend terrorism from Palestinian militants and say it's racist to mention it while at the same time saying Israelis are all terrorists. You keep accusing Israel of killing innocent Palestinian civilians when even Arab media acknowledges that the majority of Palestinians killed this year were engaged either in terror attacks or in armed action to stop Israel from arresting suspected terrorists. When Israeli civilians are killed, you try to excuse it by saying a security guard was stabbed too (who international law also considers a civilian) and include the attacker in your list of alleged victims.
This is more of your Islamaphobia.
You're still trying to label all Palestinians as terrorists in order to dehumanize them and justify to yourself that its ok that Israel treats them as sub humans.
Its sad and pathetic.

Palestinians are people.
They deserve basic human rights and the chance to live their own lives.
Support BDS.

Stand up against apartheid.

The new Green party co-leader is against Israeli apartheid. As are the NDP.
The liberals will be next.

 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Ah, the usual conflation of American Jews and Israel. Instead of accepting that non-Israeli Jews have their own opinion, you assign blame to them for your dislike of Israel. Asking American Jew's opinions on Israel is no more significant to anything other than asking American Catholics their opinions about Italy.
That's your territory, basketcase.
I'm the one that regularly posts from IJVCanada, IfNotNow, B'tselem and other Jewish groups that stand against apartheid.
You're the one that tries to say its antisemitic to post the views people some Israelis call 'self hating'.

 

canada-man

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Toronto, Ontario
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Anger as hate charges against Terrorist Convoy pair are dropped



Campaigners have attacked a decision to drop hate charges against two men on the May 2021 “Convoy for Palestine”.

Mohammed Iftikhar Hanif and Jawaad Hussain had been charged with “using threatening, abusive or insulting words, or behaviour, with intent, likely to stir up racial hatred” while driving through North London during the outbreak of hostilities between Israel and Hamas.

The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) said in a statement that, after a review of the evidence, there is "no longer a realistic prospect of either defendant being convicted".

Nick Price, Head of Special Crime and Counter Terrorism Division, said that they know the decision is "disappointing", but insisted that prosecutors would not have been able to prove the cases against the two men.

Mr Price told the JC: "This was a shocking incident, and we know how disappointing this decision will be for the Jewish community.

“Throughout this case, we have worked hard with the police to identify those filmed and the extent of their involvement. However, upon reviewing the evidence it has become clear we would not be able to prove to a court that one of the two charged individuals was in the car at the time of the captured footage. We could also not demonstrate that the second person had participated in the conduct to the criminal standard.

“We will continue to work with the Jewish community to rebuild trust. Anyone who sees hate crime should report it to police. We will prosecute all cases where there is sufficient evidence to do so.”

This comes after the CPS dropped charges in July against two other men also accused of stirring up racial hatred on the same convoy, citing the same reason, meaning that no one is currently facing charges following the incident widely condemned across the country.

The Campaign Against Antisemitism called on the Director of Public Prosecutions to either explain the decision or resign, saying: "It shames our country that our criminal justice system has yet again left its Jews to fend for themselves."

Mike Freer, MP for Finchley and Golders Green, told the JC that the decision is "disappointing", and said that the CPS should take these cases to court and allow a jury to decide.

Mr Freer, who also serves as Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Courts and Legal Services, said: “The CPS have a job to do, and whilst they may think the case does not have a realistic chance of success, sometimes we should take a chance and let a jury decide, otherwise wecontinually let perpetrators think they will get away with it, and the people who are terrorised think that they are not going to be protected.

“I think it’s a very disappointing decision, and I think they should have pursued it not only to send a message to those who seek to behave in this way, but also we may have discovered that the jury convicted them, so sometimes we should let a jury decide.”

Both men had allegedly travelled from Blackburn in the convoy that drove through London on 16 May 2021. They were arrested after a video circulated on social media in May last year, in which antisemitic abuse could be heard being shouted as vehicles draped with Palestinian flags travelled in a convoy through or near heavily Jewish areas.

In the viral video, cars with Palestinian flags were seen driving through areas of London with many Jewish residents, while protesters honk their horns and scream “F*** their mothers, rape their daughters.”

All four men accused had pleaded not guilty when they were charged last year.

The case was due to go to trial, but after a review of the evidence, the CPS has decided to discontinue proceedings.

In a statement on Friday morning, a CPS spokesperson told the JC: “The CPS has a duty to keep cases under continuing review and, following a further review of the evidence, we concluded there is no longer a realistic prospect of either defendant being convicted.

“We take reports of antisemitism and all other allegations of religious hatred extremely seriously because of the devastating impact they have on victims and wider society. Where there is sufficient evidence, we will prosecute these cases.”

The Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA) expressed its fury that the case has been dropped, calling for the decision to be explained or for the Director of Public Prosecutions to resign.

A spokesperson for the CAA told the JC: “The Director of Public Prosecutions must immediately explain this decision or resign. If the CPS is incapable of bringing to justice the people who drove through London in broad daylight on camera calling for the rape of Jewish women and girls, then it has reached the absolute pinnacle of pointlessness.

"This was a crime that sent Jewish families running in fear and caused the Prime Minister and Home Secretary to demand action. Britain’s Jews are facing surging hatred and are crying out for justice.

"We are exploring whether we can bring a private prosecution, and we are also considering whether we could bring a judicial review against the CPS. It shames our country that our criminal justice system has yet again left Britain’s Jews to fend for themselves.”

Mark Gardner, Chief Executive of the Community Security Trust, said: “The decision to drop all charges in relation to the notorious hate convoy through north London in May 2021 will cause understandable and deserved fury throughout the Jewish community and beyond.

"CST put a huge amount of work into tracking the convoy on the day, identifying the cars involved and ensuring that arrests were made in real time. We rely on our criminal justice system to protect our community from this kind of hatred and intimidation, and the failure to do so will leave a deep scar.

"The CPS need to urgently explain everything they have done to try to prosecute this case and set out in detail why they feel it cannot go ahead. The Jewish community, and indeed the wider community, deserve nothing less.”

In July, the CPS also dropped charges against Asif Ali, 26 and Adil Mota, 27, saying at the time that there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction.

Anger as hate charges against ‘Palestine Convoy’ pair are dropped - The Jewish Chronicle (thejc.com)
 

basketcase

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This is wacko, hate speech.
...
The only hate is that you hate reality.

And yes, many people promoting BDS are doing so simply because they think it will undermine the Jewish presence. Hamas and a bunch of other groups want the same thing but think violence is the way to get it done.

BDS is not a peace plan. All it means is Palestinian desire for their own state continues to be avoided. No Palestinian leaders want to be Israeli. Very few Palestinians want to be Israeli. You might demand they are forced to become Israeli but that flies into the face of the whole idea of self-determination you pretend to care about.


And do you not see how dumb you sound when you scream about it being racist to say that Al Jazeera and many other Arab media sources are reporting that the significant majority of Palestinians killed were killed either during attacks on civilians or attacks on Israeli troops. You might support attacks on Jews by Palestinians but all you are doing is showing your obsessive racism.
 

basketcase

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That's your territory, basketcase.
...
Yes, it seems to be my territory to call you out for your overt anti-semitism. You have repeatedly shown you think it's okay to blame non-Israeli Jews because of your ridiculous crusade against Israel.

p.s. Seems the NDP agree that your kinds of comments " perpetrated an antisemitic stereotype towards Jewish neighbours "
 
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basketcase

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..;.

Both men had allegedly travelled from Blackburn in the convoy that drove through London on 16 May 2021. They were arrested after a video circulated on social media in May last year, in which antisemitic abuse could be heard being shouted as vehicles draped with Palestinian flags travelled in a convoy through or near heavily Jewish areas.

In the viral video, cars with Palestinian flags were seen driving through areas of London with many Jewish residents, while protesters honk their horns and scream “F*** their mothers, rape their daughters.”
...
According to franky, it's okay to target London Jews for abuse over Israel.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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No Palestinian leaders want to be Israeli. Very few Palestinians want to be Israeli.
Its really time you stopped this colonial nonsense, claiming you speak for Palestinians.
You speak for an apartheid occupation and ongoing colonization, that's all.

82.8% of Palestinians support BDS.

Its clear you're deathly afraid that if Palestinians get the vote they will hold the balance of power.
This is what you get for years of saying 'the settlements aren't the problem'.
Democracy and the end of apartheid.

You'd do much better to start deescalating and learn to live without hatred.
End apartheid.

And do you not see how dumb you sound when you scream about it being racist to say that Al Jazeera and many other Arab media sources are reporting that the significant majority of Palestinians killed were killed either during attacks on civilians or attacks on Israeli troops. You might support attacks on Jews by Palestinians but all you are doing is showing your obsessive racism.
Al Jazeera does not report that, you're lying.
For instance, as they reported on the Great March of Return, where Israel used snipers to shoot civilian protesters every Friday for a year.
“The Great March of Return has been a grassroots social movement that included the various and diverse components of the Palestinian civil society,” Abusalim told Al Jazeera.

“Political factions, NGOs, people from all across the political spectrum participated in the March,” he added.


And:
The organisers of the demonstration, dubbed the Great Return March, affirmed that the movement is unarmed.

The Israeli army, however, responded with live ammunition, tear gas and rubber-coated steel bullets, killing at least 15 Palestinians and injuring more than 1,400.


 

basketcase

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Its really time you stopped this colonial nonsense, claiming you speak for Palestinians.
...
Amazing how you complain I speak for Palestinians while you are trying to push them into a One State peace they detest.

But you can prove me wrong. Which Palestinian leaders promote a One State peace? Do you have polls showing that Palestinians want a One State peace?

Al Jazeera does not report that, you're lying.
I know you love defending terrorism against Israelis but.

Israel’s military campaign, however, began shortly after a string of attacks by Palestinians that killed 19 people in Israel between March and May 2022. Two of the men who carried out the attacks were from Jenin.

In Jenin, the Israelis have found a capable adversary, a group known as the Jenin Brigades, which has carried out shootings on Israeli military checkpoints and engages in armed clashes during Israeli raids. Now, when the Israelis enter Jenin, they are not just met by rocks, but by bullets too.


They very clearly delineate the sequence of events.
- Attacks on Israelis
- Attempts to arrest culprits
- Gunmen trying to stop arrests.

An a small sample of specific events.


Mahdi Hashash, 15, was killed when a hand-made explosive blew up in his hand during an Israeli army raid on Nablus.


Early Tuesday morning, large numbers of Israeli forces stormed the city of Nablus and were spotted by Palestinian security forces and armed fighters, according to a spokesperson for the Palestinian Fatah movement.

According to the Palestinian health ministry, five Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire. One of those killed was unarmed, Palestinian health and security officials said.


A Palestinian killed three Israelis and wounded three others in an attack in a settlement in the occupied West Bank before he was shot and killed by Israeli security personnel, Israeli paramedics and Palestinian officials said.
...
In a statement, Hamas spokesman Abdel Latif al-Qanou said that the operation demonstrated “the ability of our people to continue their revolution and defend Al-Aqsa Mosque from daily incursions”.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/15/palestinian-shot-dead-after-killing-israelis


The Palestinian health ministry identified the doctor as Abdullah al-Ahmad, in his 40s, and said he was shot in the head by Israeli forces on Friday morning in front of the Jenin public hospital.

However, reports from Palestinian media outlets said al-Ahmad was also an armed fighter.

The second man killed on Friday morning is 20-year-old Mateen Dabaya, a health ministry spokesperson told Al Jazeera.

In a statement, the Jenin Brigades, a Palestinian armed resistance group that was formed last year, identified Dabaya as a local commander in their group.




The Israeli military said its troops were trying to detain a vehicle after its passengers had crossed illegally into Israel. It said the vehicle fled and hit a soldier, after which “the soldiers fired toward the vehicle”.

In a separate incident in occupied East Jerusalem, the Israeli police said they shot a Palestinian who stabbed and wounded an Israeli, before fleeing. They said police identified the attacker and shot him when he turned towards an officer with an “object” in his hand.




The man, named as Habis Abdel Hafeez Rayan, aged 54, was accused by the Israeli army of carrying out a vehicle ramming and stabbing attack on an Israeli soldier at a military checkpoint near a Jewish settlement.

“The assailant got out of his vehicle with an axe to attack the officer, who fired at the attacker and neutralised him,” the army said. “The officer was seriously injured and taken to hospital.”


Tamer al-Kilani, a founding member of Lions’ Den armed group in Nablus, was killed by a planted explosive device.
 

basketcase

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Yes, it seems to be my territory to call you out for your overt anti-semitism. You have repeatedly shown you think it's okay to blame non-Israeli Jews because of your ridiculous crusade against Israel.

p.s. Seems the NDP agree that your kinds of comments " perpetrated an antisemitic stereotype towards Jewish neighbours "
Wow. Franky has no response now that even his NDP calls out conflating non-Israeli Jews with Israel as antisemitic.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Amazing how you complain I speak for Palestinians while you are trying to push them into a One State peace they detest.

But you can prove me wrong. Which Palestinian leaders promote a One State peace? Do you have polls showing that Palestinians want a One State peace?
My preference would be the one state solution but since 82.8% of Palestinians support BDS, I'll back BDS.
See, I can listen and change.
You?......

I know you love defending terrorism against Israelis but.

In Jenin, the Israelis have found a capable adversary, a group known as the Jenin Brigades, which has carried out shootings on Israeli military checkpoints and engages in armed clashes during Israeli raids. Now, when the Israelis enter Jenin, they are not just met by rocks, but by bullets too.


They are attacking military checkpoints, that's not terrorism.
That's just a native population resisting an illegal and apartheid occupation.
As is their right.

I know, in your racist world you don't think Palestinians have any rights, including the right to self defence.
But you're wrong.




Early Tuesday morning, large numbers of Israeli forces stormed the city of Nablus and were spotted by Palestinian security forces and armed fighters, according to a spokesperson for the Palestinian Fatah movement.
Again, that's not terrorism, that's resisting the military.
That's another example of the native population resisting an illegal and apartheid occupation.


A Palestinian killed three Israelis and wounded three others in an attack in a settlement in the occupied West Bank before he was shot and killed by Israeli security personnel,
Israeli paramedics and Palestinian officials said.
...
In a statement, Hamas spokesman Abdel Latif al-Qanou said that the operation demonstrated “the ability of our people to continue their revolution and defend Al-Aqsa Mosque from daily incursions”.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/15/palestinian-shot-dead-after-killing-israelis

These raids on Al-Aqsa have all been settler terrorists backed by the IDF, which makes it a militant attack. So again, not terrorism. Not anytime that settlers attack and the IDF support them. That's terrorism with the backing of the state.
Why are you defending terrorism now?

The Palestinian health ministry identified the doctor as Abdullah al-Ahmad, in his 40s, and said he was shot in the head by Israeli forces on Friday morning in front of the Jenin public hospital.

However, reports from Palestinian media outlets said al-Ahmad was also an armed fighter.


Holy shit, a doctor is shot in the head by the IDF and now you are arguing he was a militant?
That's getting pretty disgusting, basketcase.

The guy clearly was a doctor and was in a hospital. That's established but instead you pick up on IDF type disinformation and claim without any evidence that he was also a militant? First, he wasn't acting as a militant nor involved in any military acts at the time, he was clearly acting as a civilian at the time of the killing.
This is the second of these posts where you are defending terrorism by trying to claim all Palestinians are really terrorists.

That's sick.



In a statement, the Jenin Brigades, a Palestinian armed resistance group that was formed last year, identified Dabaya as a local commander in their group.

The Israeli military said its troops were trying to detain a vehicle after its passengers had crossed illegally into Israel. It said the vehicle fled and hit a soldier, after which “the soldiers fired toward the vehicle”.
Look, another example of Palestinian militants targeting the occupation forces in an illegal apartheid occupation.
And once again you try to call the right of self defence against an occupation 'terrorism'.
Wow.


The man, named as Habis Abdel Hafeez Rayan, aged 54, was accused by the Israeli army of carrying out a vehicle ramming and stabbing attack on an Israeli soldier at a military checkpoint near a Jewish settlement.
Holy shit, its another attack on the IDF or the occupation forces of an illegal occupation that you are trying to call terrorism.

Clearly you've lost it.
Now you're calling targeting military 'terrorism'.

And again, this is what it looks like when military snipers of the IDF, under orders of the Israeli government, target and shoot civilians for protesting for basic human rights.
This is terrorism.

 

Frankfooter

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Wow. Franky has no response now that even his NDP calls out conflating non-Israeli Jews with Israel as antisemitic.
Good on the NDP for this.
As someone who regularly posts from Jewish groups like IJVCanada, clearly I do not conflate Israel with the Jewish people and in fact support Jewish groups that are against apartheid.
Unlike you, who regularly tries to call me antisemitic for posting about Israeli government policy, which is exactly what you are complaining about, conflating Israel with the Jewish people.
Which is why I regularly call you out for using this antisemitic trope.
 

basketcase

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My preference would be the one state solution but since 82.8% of Palestinians support BDS, I'll back BDS.
...
BDS isn't peace. At best it is forcing Palestinians into a One State peace and delaying the possibility of an actual negotiated solution. Considering the Palestinian leadership reject the idea, many of them violently so, and the people overwhelmingly reject it, it's just your racist elitism thinking the Palestinians and Israelis need you to tell them what's right.


And you go a long way to justify Palestinian violence and demonize Israel for killing armed attackers. My stance which you hated to was the objective fact that the vast majority of Palestinians killed in the past few months have been people directly engaged in violence and not innocent peaceful people like you pretend. You see Al Jazeera clearly stating that these people were killed because they shot at troops trying to arrest terrorists yet you still try and claim them as victims.

If gunmen attack Israeli troops then Israeli troops are allowed to defend themselves. When a terrorist attacks Jewish civilians, the civilians and the security forces are allowed to try and stop them.

And it is absolutely disgusting that you try and portray these attacks by Palestinian militants as self defence.

Today's news.

A local wing of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the Nablus-based Lion’s Den terror groups claimed responsibility for shooting and hurling explosives at the troops escorting the group of Israelis to Joseph’s Tomb on the outskirts of Nablus.
Gunmen attack a group of people going to pray because they don't like Jews being there. But I'm sure you'll include the dead Palestinian as an innocent victim and the gunmen who attacked the Jews as just defending themselves.



The body of an Israeli man who was killed in a car crash in the northern West Bank city of Jenin on Tuesday morning was believed to have been snatched by Palestinian gunmen from a hospital in the city, the military said.

Tiran Fero, an 18-year-old from the Druze-majority town of Daliyat al-Karmel was critically injured along with his friend who was seriously hurt in the crash.


Kidnapping a body to try and use for ransom is sick.


Keep on defending that crap. All you are doing is showing you think Palestinians are disposable and Jews are legitimate targets.
 

basketcase

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Good on the NDP for this.
...
Amazing. The NDP condemns portraying Canadian Jews as culpable for Israel as you haver been endlessly doing and justifying but you somehow warp reality to pretend they're parsing your actions.

Pretty dumb.
 

canada-man

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Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
Anti-jewish terroristActivist Nerdeen Kiswani On Iranian TV: Fighting, Resistance Are Beautiful, Should Be Celebrated; That's The Only Way To Liberate Palestine; Lion's Den, Jenin Brigade Are Involved In Active Resistance, Not Just Self-Defense

Palestinian-American Activist Appears On Iran TV | MEMRI
 

Frankfooter

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BDS isn't peace.
Yes, I know, you don't think democracy and equal rights will lead to peace and instead you think it'll lead to genocide because of your extremist, Islamaphobic views of Palestinians.
Your opinion is of course just that, your opinion. And its a vile, hateful opinion.
BDS is a peaceful way forward to end apartheid.

I support Canadian values like tolerance, democracy and equal rights.
You should try it as a way forward instead


And you go a long way to justify Palestinian violence and demonize Israel for killing armed attackers.
The only one justifying the violence is the one who keeps justifying and defending apartheid and settler colonialism.
If you want peace and no more violence you need to actively support peace initiatives, like I do through BDS.
Instead you're here posting over and over again that all Palestinians are Hamas and therefore terrorists and therefore its ok to kill them.
That's the opposite of peace.

Like this:

If gunmen attack Israeli troops then Israeli troops are allowed to defend themselves.
Its an illegal occupation and ongoing settler colonialism, Palestinians have a right to self defence and to resist the occupation through force.
Israeli soldiers aren't acting through self defence, they are actively and violently colonizing what could have been Palestine.
They are doing what Putin's soldiers are doing in Ukraine, minus the apartheid.



And it is absolutely disgusting that you try and portray these attacks by Palestinian militants as self defence.
The right to self defence is just one more basic human right you refuse to admit to Palestinians.
Instead you repeatedly claim that only the ongoing settler colonizers deserve the right to 'self defence' as they actively take land by force.
That's disgusting, its like claiming that only Putin's soldiers have the right to self defence in Donbas.

Amazing. The NDP condemns portraying Canadian Jews as culpable for Israel as you haver been endlessly doing and justifying but you somehow warp reality to pretend they're parsing your actions.

Pretty dumb.
Again, you are the one that continues to use that antisemitic trope while I repeatedly post that there are many Jewish groups that are against the occupation and apartheid.
You are the one that says its antisemitic to criticize Israeli policy, which is 'portraying Jews as culpable for Israel'.

While I daily show you that there are multiple Jewish groups who hold similar views.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Yes, I know, ...
And you still push it even though it won't create peace and rights because Palestinian leadership and the Palestinian people don't want to live having equal rights with Jews.


Disgusting that you keep trying to make excuses for Palestinian militants attacking people and pretending that Israeli troops have no right to shoot back at gunmen trying to kill them and Jewish civilians
 

basketcase

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This was an act of terrorism, which I condemn as fully as I condemn Israeli acts of terrorism like the March of Return and the repeated attacks on civilians.
With no peace talks for a decade and Israel electing a more extremist right wing government lets hope that this is not leading to another intifada.

Maybe its time to bring in the UN.

Maybe time to hold the Palestinian factions responsible when they attack civilians and reject the concept of equal rights with Jews.

I was wondering what tactic you would use to distract here instead of actually holding Palestinian militants accountable. Guess you went but your "but Israel...." At least you didn't try to claim it was a false flag attack.



In Gaza, a spokesperson for the Palestinian militant group Hamas praised the Jerusalem explosions but stopped short of claiming responsibility.

p.s. At least you're smart enough not to make excuses for this like you did for the 3 Jewish civilians killed last week.
 

basketcase

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And I see you had absolutely no comment about the Druze Israeli teen who was ripped off life support by gunmen so they can hold his body hostage.
 
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