Too many people are going to university - discussion?
- Thread starter mandrill
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I think the comment about not having discussed what is expected from everyone going or why it would be good has been a problem.
What is basic education and then higher education for - what does society want out of it and want to offer its people out of it.
What is basic education and then higher education for - what does society want out of it and want to offer its people out of it.
Too many based on what?
We export manufacturing jobs, suppress wages of low skill workers and have high barriers to operate self-owned businesses. What other option is there?
We export manufacturing jobs, suppress wages of low skill workers and have high barriers to operate self-owned businesses. What other option is there?
The great inefficiency of higher education is probably not what most would expect - inflated salaries/costs, too many staff, bloated bureaucracies etc.
I think it is the insane amount of blind alleys that students go down.
Getting degrees then not using them.
Starting one program then dropping it to do something totally different.
Quitting.
Getting a useless degree where there are no job prospects.
And most of all, wasting precious years.
Also, even with much higher tuition foreign students are still being subsidized by Canadian taxpayers.
Now, in discussions, this aspect of it is ALWAYS papered over with,
Oh, it is still a rewarding experience" , or "Great to get a general education" as if it is a vacation.
The problem it does nothing to raise or improve our standard of living, it gobbles up resources to essentially dig an educational hole then fill it back in and call it good value.
I think it is the insane amount of blind alleys that students go down.
Getting degrees then not using them.
Starting one program then dropping it to do something totally different.
Quitting.
Getting a useless degree where there are no job prospects.
And most of all, wasting precious years.
Also, even with much higher tuition foreign students are still being subsidized by Canadian taxpayers.
Now, in discussions, this aspect of it is ALWAYS papered over with,
Oh, it is still a rewarding experience" , or "Great to get a general education" as if it is a vacation.
The problem it does nothing to raise or improve our standard of living, it gobbles up resources to essentially dig an educational hole then fill it back in and call it good value.
They been saying that since I was in high school in the late 2000's , I don't know it true or not. Getting an apprenticeship is hard to get in, I notices most people get in through connections with family member that in the trades, joining the union intakes.
Doing pre apprenticeship programs from skilled trades college of Canada is just rip off, doesn't guarantee Getting a apprenticeship , I heard they pre apprenticeship programs for electrical or plumbing was like 20k for just a 6 months. It just money grab crap school, they don't advertise the tuition price on the website,
The best option is joining the union or work has a helper or general worker on the specific trade you desire
Canada needs more skilled trades people, less people going to University who graduate or even fail to graduate with useless degrees mounting up student debts ( ripe for unscrupulous politicians to promise debt forgiveness).
Recent Indian immigrants to Canada are easily observed in the work force now as employers are desperate for workers of all sorts, from skilled IT engineers to cashiers. The schools and community colleges are actively vying for these Indian students with some of the private schools making fall promises so that exploitation and misleading
In any cases, Canada desperate needs immigration. Too many able bodied Canadians have simply “ dropped out” become “ drugged out” and went on social services unfortunately.
Having the government pay a “ living wage” to unproductive people is only possible with massive quantitative easing and even greater taxation levels
One problem is we made this stupid idea that going to a university is a path to getting a job.
If we had competent secondary schools and trade schools, then university as "higher education" for more academic pursuits that aren't "if you didn't get a college degree, why would we hire you", it would deflate a lot of the problem. Unfortunately the same people who tend to rant about university degrees being stupid and not leading to jobs tend to be against funding public education at the primary and secondary level as well.
If we had competent secondary schools and trade schools, then university as "higher education" for more academic pursuits that aren't "if you didn't get a college degree, why would we hire you", it would deflate a lot of the problem. Unfortunately the same people who tend to rant about university degrees being stupid and not leading to jobs tend to be against funding public education at the primary and secondary level as well.
That use to be true, in the 50s. 60s. 70s, 80s. When the supply of university grads started to increase the cream of the crop would be the ones with a university education, plus life experience and special skills. The recession will send this trend into reverse. Too many grads with literature and philosophy papers.
There are many professions that require a university degree...just as there are trades that require schooling plus apprenticeship. So for those careers whether it is a university or a college or trade school...there is a post-secondary pathway to a career whether it is a trade or a profession.
Perhaps what the original post is questioning are those that go to university and get nothing from it. That may be a bit of a judgement. Many would consider a philosophy degree useless, for example. But it can lead to a career in law, or other professions, as an example. A degree may just be the minimum education required for entry to various professions, even though that degree may not be directly related.
But having said all that there is certainly a need for more students in the trades it seems.
Perhaps what the original post is questioning are those that go to university and get nothing from it. That may be a bit of a judgement. Many would consider a philosophy degree useless, for example. But it can lead to a career in law, or other professions, as an example. A degree may just be the minimum education required for entry to various professions, even though that degree may not be directly related.
But having said all that there is certainly a need for more students in the trades it seems.
Tell that to parents. As a society we've placed so much emphasis on university that it's created a feedback loop. I wonder if that view will change after a generation of underemployed university grads.
Aside from jobs, there is also the concept that we have a more educated populace.
It seems the big university push started in the early 1980s. Massive recession. Intense international competition. Saturated labour market with boomers and women streaming in. Switch to a polarized service based economy. Collapsing commodity prices.
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In the not-too-distant future the issue will become
the cost of keeping as many public universities as
we do now. I think it is pragmatic to demote a fraction
like 20--30% of universities to colleges or polytechnics
by the middle of this century.
the cost of keeping as many public universities as
we do now. I think it is pragmatic to demote a fraction
like 20--30% of universities to colleges or polytechnics
by the middle of this century.
The reality of a useless university degree has been known for at least a generation now, if not more
Having a university degree is still better than not having one. The people I feel the most for are the ones just below the university-capable cohort. Like if the top 40% goes to university, the 50-60% percentile will try, and probably end up dropping out. They end up with the worst of both worlds, debt, and no credential to show for it.
So let’s bring more people in to do the work so more “able-bodied Canadians” can continue to be “drugged out” or go on “social services”. ?
Because that makes sense too right???? If true, let’s bring more people in and not address the problem. Let’s over populate Canada with more people so Canadians can get more drugged out and use tax papers money.
And Sorry you have such an issue with Canadians - assume “white” Canadians are who you are talking about right? Is this a self loathing thing or are you an immigrant who just doesn’t like the people of the country you moved too?
That is one huge accusation against a country of people. Brought with no stats to prove it as fact and certainly doesn’t take into account all of Canada because when you think of all of Canada - you know damn well this is a bullshit. You are just looking around your little community in the GTA, not looking up north, east or west. To other provinces, etc.
If you can bring the stats to back up your claim - great we can have a conversation but right now you look like you are hating on one group of people with un proven accusations and generalizations. If you were white and talking about Indians being all drugged out - you would be called a racist in a heartbeat
True, lots of useless degrees, university is only good for , if you want to become a doctor, lawyer Kinesiology
