BROKEN: Our healthcare system.

[poker]

My first thoughts…. Unnecessary visits. Overdoses. Totally preventable. And they take up a lot of resources.

The government needs to form a plan to tackle the drug and homeless problem our Province and Country is struggling with. However bad you think it is… I promise you it’s worse.

End of the month…. Cheque day today. I think just about every hospital in the Province is going to see at least one overdose over the weekend.

Now, we can argue the best approach. Safe injection sites or hard penitentiary time…. But we need a plan.

 

[Darts]

To be fair, our health system is not designed to handle a once in a 200-300 year event like COVID.

 

[barnacler]

No we don't need it to be private like the shit hole US.Where people get denied the right of healthcare because of lack of insurance. We need a premier that spends 10 billion in healthcare and not a fuckin highway that will save you 60 seconds of time. Ford is a jackass.

First of all, there is more to world health care than just Canada and the United States. The US is an extreme outlier in healthcare. Forget it. Don't saddle me with the US system just because I advocate more private healthcare.

Please get that.

Next - there already is PLENTY of private spending on our healthcare system. For instance, gases used in hospitals is typically supplied privately. So is linen services, never mind all the supplies, drugs, cleaning equipment, paint, flooring, parking lot paving, wiring, copper used in wires, vending machines, on and on. So unless you advocate for a centrally planned economy producing EVERYTHING, you ALREADY have private enterprise in healthcare, and lots of it.

The only question is where to use private services, and where not to.

Next, Canada's health care is not particularly good in international rankings.

Next, every product and service in our society has demand and supply somehow managed. When demand is NOT managed by price - i.e. it is 'free' at point of use, then it will be managed by supply via rationing.

Rationing can take many forms, from limits imposed on users, (literally ration cards or records), to..in the Canadian system...rationing via lines or wait times. This is precisely what existed in the Soviet Union, where lining up for virtually everything was a way of life. No way around it. it sucked, unless you regard as a significant portion of your life spent waiting in line as a positive outcome for society.

The answer of the left is ALWAYS - "SPEND MORE" to solve the problem.

WE ALREADY SPEND MORE than other countries that do better than we do, and, again, I am NOT including the United States.

Health expenditure as a percentage of GDP by country 2020 | Statista

Among OECD member countries, the United States had the highest percentage of gross domestic product spent on health care in 2020.

www.statista.com

.

We are way up there near the top in spending, but not in results. Clearly we need to operate smarter, more efficiently.

I've said enough. Look at other countries that do better with less money, then copy them without wearing any ideological blinders from either side of the political spectrum.

 

[Darts]

The U.K. has or use to have a hybrid health system ---public and private. Canada should do the same.

 

[Greytop19]

No we don't need it to be private like the shit hole US.

If the US is a shit hole, what is Canada ? Do you make these comments to troll others ?

 

[jsanchez]

If the US is a shit hole, what is Canada ? Do you make these comments to troll others ?

OP is just being a broken record. Canada is slowly turning into a shithole as well.
A trip to the ER (be prepared to wait for hours and hours) should be an eye-opener to any partisan or dogmatic individual.

 

[poker]

First of all, there is more to world health care than just Canada and the United States. The US is an extreme outlier in healthcare. Forget it. Don't saddle me with the US system just because I advocate more private healthcare.

Please get that.

Next - there already is PLENTY of private spending on our healthcare system. For instance, gases used in hospitals is typically supplied privately. So is linen services, never mind all the supplies, drugs, cleaning equipment, paint, flooring, parking lot paving, wiring, copper used in wires, vending machines, on and on. So unless you advocate for a centrally planned economy producing EVERYTHING, you ALREADY have private enterprise in healthcare, and lots of it.

The only question is where to use private services, and where not to.

Next, Canada's health care is not particularly good in international rankings.

Next, every product and service in our society has demand and supply somehow managed. When demand is NOT managed by price - i.e. it is 'free' at point of use, then it will be managed by supply via rationing.

Rationing can take many forms, from limits imposed on users, (literally ration cards or records), to..in the Canadian system...rationing via lines or wait times. This is precisely what existed in the Soviet Union, where lining up for virtually everything was a way of life. No way around it. it sucked, unless you regard as a significant portion of your life spent waiting in line as a positive outcome for society.

The answer of the left is ALWAYS - "SPEND MORE" to solve the problem.

WE ALREADY SPEND MORE than other countries that do better than we do, and, again, I am NOT including the United States.

Health expenditure as a percentage of GDP by country 2020 | Statista

Among OECD member countries, the United States had the highest percentage of gross domestic product spent on health care in 2020.

www.statista.com

.

We are way up there near the top in spending, but not in results. Clearly we need to operate smarter, more efficiently.

I've said enough. Look at other countries that do better with less money, then copy them without wearing any ideological blinders from either side of the political spectrum.

Why do people say “the answer from the left is always spend more to fix it!”

Bullshit. It’s hardly ever said, unless it’s used in that bullshit quote.

I epitomize “the left”… and I long for the days of Chrétien and Martin running Ottawa fairly responsibly. Yes, the country needs to invest in things like Healthcare, Education, and a social safety net…. But it doesn’t mean I like to see my tax dollars wasted, or stolen.

Stop playing identify politics. It’s juvenile.

 

[Claudia Love]

First off, this is a Canadian thing, not a Doug Ford thing. It's the same in every province, Doug Ford is the premier of Ontario. Secondly, when nurses, doctors, or any other person decides to immigrate here there are policies and process with recognizing their degree and experience, its laid out pretty easy and many if not all can have this recognized within a year of being in Canada. The staffing shortages have been happening for much longer than a year so what have these 400 nurses done to help themselves? You're grasping at straws to support some idea in your mind that simply is not the case. You need to understand the different between federal and provincial policies before blaming. Again please educate yourself on these things.

Ford government sat on $10.3 billion during pandemic https://www.catherinefife.com/fao_reports_ford_government_sat_on_10_3_billion_during_pandemic

Ford held back $5.6 billion that should have been used to protect Ontarians
Doug Ford withheld $5.6 billion that should have been used to protect Ontario families from COVID, put more nurses and PSWs into health care and make schools and daycares safe

The newly released 2020-21 Public Accounts of Ontario show the Ford Conservatives massively underspent its own budget for critical services, including withholding $3.5 billion budgeted for health care.-during a fuckin pandemic

Tax breaks just add pressure on future budgets to cut programs. It will be easy to forget, in 2021 or 2022, that the deficit over which the Tories are crying wolf as they cut services, includes of $1-billion in tax reductions. Add that to the fact that they aren’t keeping up with costs of education says Marit Stiles, when the pandemic is over “we’ll see more brutal and painful cuts.”

It certainly makes your head spin – a budget freeze during the most severe pandemic to hit the country in a century, all underscored by tax cuts for businesses. For a little while, Doug Ford put on a folksy performance as he claimed he was “sparing nothing to fight COVID-19.” The money his government puts out says something different. •

Tax cuts include – in millions of dollars (Table A3 Ontario Budget 2020)
	2020-21	2021-22	2022-23
Reducing Employer health tax:	$90	$360	$380
Reducing property tax for employers:	$175	$385	$450
Property tax relief for small businesses:	$35	$85	$110
Total (note that this includes all tax cuts):	$315	$915	$995

The federal government this year will transfer to the provinces nearly $42 billion for health care, under an arrangement that sees the amount rise by at least three per cent each year.Why does ford have his hand out begging for more money from the feds for healthcare could it possibly be hes investing his money in highways and businesses and not giving a shit about health care.


Ford government to cut $1-billion in funding to Toronto Public Health over 10 years, board chair says

he is putting the nail in the coffin on Ontarios healthcare.

 

[GameBoy27]

No we don't need it to be private like the shit hole US.Where people get denied the right of healthcare because of lack of insurance. We need a premier that spends 10 billion in healthcare and not a fuckin highway that will save you 60 seconds of time. Ford is a jackass.

If you cared to do some research, you'd see that public/private healthcare works very well in many countries. What it's going to take is a complete rethinking of how healthcare is managed in this province. Study the practices in countries where it works and adopt new, proven policies. It doesn't have to be like the US. Dumping more money into our broken system is not going to solve the problem. It's like trying to fill a bathtub with holes in the bottom. It doesn't matter how much water you pour in, it just flows out the bottom.

Your hatred of Ford is pretty special. If you think the previous government had it right, think again. In fact, the Liberals cut funding to and delisted many services that used to be covered by OHIP.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4120816/...ement-to-blame-for-broken-health-care-system/

An advocacy group which represents many of the province’s estimated 20,000 doctors says “gross mismanagement and negligence” under the current Kathleen Wynne Liberal government has seen billions of dollars cut to front-line care.

Concerned Ontario Doctors (COD) says the province has been cutting an average of $100 million since 2015, totalling close to $4 billion.

“They have chronically underfunded and cut our hospitals for 10 years,” COD president Dr. Kulvinder Gill told Global News Radio. “Physicians have had consecutive cuts for front-line patient care for seven years and we’ve been without a contract for physicians going into our fifth year, which is in Canada, unprecedented in its history.”

Remember this?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ehealth-scandal-a-1b-waste-auditor-1.808640#:~:text=EHealth was set up in,produce anything of lasting value.

 

[Greytop19]

OP is just being a broken record. Canada is slowly turning into a shithole as well.
A trip to the ER (be prepared to wait for hours and hours) should be an eye-opener to any partisan or dogmatic individual.

THANK YOU !

 

[Claudia Love]

If you cared to do some research, you'd see that public/private healthcare works very well in many countries. What it's going to take is a complete rethinking of how healthcare is managed in this province. Study the practices in countries where it works and adopt new, proven policies. It doesn't have to be like the US. Dumping more money into our broken system is not going to solve the problem. It's like trying to fill a bathtub with holes in the bottom. It doesn't matter how much water you pour in, it just flows out the bottom.

Your hatred of Ford is pretty special. If you think the previous government had it right, think again. In fact, the Liberals cut funding to and delisted many services that used to be covered by OHIP.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4120816/...ement-to-blame-for-broken-health-care-system/

An advocacy group which represents many of the province’s estimated 20,000 doctors says “gross mismanagement and negligence” under the current Kathleen Wynne Liberal government has seen billions of dollars cut to front-line care.

Concerned Ontario Doctors (COD) says the province has been cutting an average of $100 million since 2015, totalling close to $4 billion.

“They have chronically underfunded and cut our hospitals for 10 years,” COD president Dr. Kulvinder Gill told Global News Radio. “Physicians have had consecutive cuts for front-line patient care for seven years and we’ve been without a contract for physicians going into our fifth year, which is in Canada, unprecedented in its history.”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ehealth-scandal-a-1b-waste-auditor-1.808640#:~:text=EHealth was set up in,produce anything of lasting value.

im not saying there shouldn't be both what im saying is that the public health care funding is coming from the federal government but Ford is hoarding to buy highways and give tax cuts when most of those businesses that are dying wont see that money .the people of Ontario needed relief during a pandemic and if the federal government didn't give CERB THAT DOUG FORD WAS AGAINST there'd be thousands more on the street. and getting sick.

 

[GameBoy27]

Ford government sat on $10.3 billion during pandemic https://www.catherinefife.com/fao_reports_ford_government_sat_on_10_3_billion_during_pandemic

Ford held back $5.6 billion that should have been used to protect Ontarians
Doug Ford withheld $5.6 billion that should have been used to protect Ontario families from COVID, put more nurses and PSWs into health care and make schools and daycares safe

The newly released 2020-21 Public Accounts of Ontario show the Ford Conservatives massively underspent its own budget for critical services, including withholding $3.5 billion budgeted for health care.-during a fuckin pandemic

Tax breaks just add pressure on future budgets to cut programs. It will be easy to forget, in 2021 or 2022, that the deficit over which the Tories are crying wolf as they cut services, includes of $1-billion in tax reductions. Add that to the fact that they aren’t keeping up with costs of education says Marit Stiles, when the pandemic is over “we’ll see more brutal and painful cuts.”

It certainly makes your head spin – a budget freeze during the most severe pandemic to hit the country in a century, all underscored by tax cuts for businesses. For a little while, Doug Ford put on a folksy performance as he claimed he was “sparing nothing to fight COVID-19.” The money his government puts out says something different. •

Tax cuts include – in millions of dollars (Table A3 Ontario Budget 2020)
	2020-21	2021-22	2022-23
Reducing Employer health tax:	$90	$360	$380
Reducing property tax for employers:	$175	$385	$450
Property tax relief for small businesses:	$35	$85	$110
Total (note that this includes all tax cuts):	$315	$915	$995

The federal government this year will transfer to the provinces nearly $42 billion for health care, under an arrangement that sees the amount rise by at least three per cent each year.Why does ford have his hand out begging for more money from the feds for healthcare could it possibly be hes investing his money in highways and businesses and not giving a shit about health care.


Ford government to cut $1-billion in funding to Toronto Public Health over 10 years, board chair says

he is putting the nail in the coffin on Ontarios healthcare.

Read my comment about adding more water to a leaking bathtub. The problem isn't money, it's staffing. You can't just hire more highly trained nurses out of thin air. Many of them quit or retired during the pandemic. I have a friend who'd a nurse manager. She manages 50 nurses. She said when COVID hit, she was down from 50 to 30 nurses. It's been hell trying to hire more. Ontario isn't the only province with this problem, it's Canada wide. More funding is not the answer. They're trying to hire more nurses from other countries, but it's not a simple process. It involves both federal and provincial governments and like anything the government does, things move at a snail's pace. I know you like to blame Ford for our problems, but it's simply not the case. I'm actually surprised you didn't blame him for causing the pandemic.

 

[GameBoy27]

im not saying there shouldn't be both what im saying is that the public health care funding is coming from the federal government but Ford is hoarding to buy highways and give tax cuts when most of those businesses that are dying wont see that money .the people of Ontario needed relief during a pandemic and if the federal government didn't give CERB THAT DOUG FORD WAS AGAINST there'd be thousands more on the street. and getting sick.

CERB was poorly managed, but that's for another day.

Many business were offered help from both the feds and the province, mine included. If it wasn't for them, I would've gone bankrupt. I know lots of owners who were in the same boat and were kept afloat with the help of the governments. Many business that operated mostly in cash got screwed because they weren't able to show the government income statements and therefore didn't meet the requirements for funding. That's why a lot of businesses went under. Sorry, not Ford's fault.

 

[H82Wait]

Ford government sat on $10.3 billion during pandemic https://www.catherinefife.com/fao_reports_ford_government_sat_on_10_3_billion_during_pandemic

Ford held back $5.6 billion that should have been used to protect Ontarians
Doug Ford withheld $5.6 billion that should have been used to protect Ontario families from COVID, put more nurses and PSWs into health care and make schools and daycares safe

The newly released 2020-21 Public Accounts of Ontario show the Ford Conservatives massively underspent its own budget for critical services, including withholding $3.5 billion budgeted for health care.-during a fuckin pandemic

Tax breaks just add pressure on future budgets to cut programs. It will be easy to forget, in 2021 or 2022, that the deficit over which the Tories are crying wolf as they cut services, includes of $1-billion in tax reductions. Add that to the fact that they aren’t keeping up with costs of education says Marit Stiles, when the pandemic is over “we’ll see more brutal and painful cuts.”

It certainly makes your head spin – a budget freeze during the most severe pandemic to hit the country in a century, all underscored by tax cuts for businesses. For a little while, Doug Ford put on a folksy performance as he claimed he was “sparing nothing to fight COVID-19.” The money his government puts out says something different. •

Tax cuts include – in millions of dollars (Table A3 Ontario Budget 2020)
	2020-21	2021-22	2022-23
Reducing Employer health tax:	$90	$360	$380
Reducing property tax for employers:	$175	$385	$450
Property tax relief for small businesses:	$35	$85	$110
Total (note that this includes all tax cuts):	$315	$915	$995

The federal government this year will transfer to the provinces nearly $42 billion for health care, under an arrangement that sees the amount rise by at least three per cent each year.Why does ford have his hand out begging for more money from the feds for healthcare could it possibly be hes investing his money in highways and businesses and not giving a shit about health care.


Ford government to cut $1-billion in funding to Toronto Public Health over 10 years, board chair says

he is putting the nail in the coffin on Ontarios healthcare.

You're now quoting Covid numbers? Listen hospitals are under staffed because people are off work. Again people around the world right now are off work, it's the same in every business. So in your mind Doug Ford should invest this money into beds and infrastructure for our healthcare system? Ok let's go with your theory, once this is completed they will still be empty because there are NOT enough employees!!! You can't pull nurses and doctors out of your ass and you can't also have all of the support staff to run a hospital. If you feel compelled to assist march your ass to hospital and volunteer, be part of the solution instead of quoting an opposition MPP. Your topic at hand was the discussion of why the hospitals were being shut down this weekend saying the HC system is broken, please stay on that topic to discuss. Did you ever stop to think that these HC workers are unionized and follow a collective agreement? Perhaps they cant schedule enough people because of this, it's not a money issue and you're kidding yourself if you believe it is.

 

[H82Wait]

Read my comment about adding more water to a leaking bathtub. The problem isn't money, it's staffing. You can't just hire more highly trained nurses out of thin air. Many of them quit or retired during the pandemic. I have a friend who'd a nurse manager. She manages 50 nurses. She said when COVID hit, she was down from 50 to 30 nurses. It's been hell trying to hire more. Ontario isn't the only province with this problem, it's Canada wide. More funding is not the answer. They're trying to hire more nurses from other countries, but it's not a simple process. It involves both federal and provincial governments and like anything the government does, things move at a snail's pace. I know you like to blame Ford for our problems, but it's simply not the case. I'm actually surprised you didn't blame him for causing the pandemic.

She doesn't get it. Appears like she believes Hospital staff are all sitting outside begging for work. If she actually understood business and what's happening with supply and demand in every aspect she might clue in.

 

[underground]

The nurse union rep who is complaining all the time actually admitted that many health care workers are taking vacation time currently. But the
complaining will continue and the media will not call them out on this. So there is the hypocrisy.

 

[lomotil]

Read my comment about adding more water to a leaking bathtub. The problem isn't money, it's staffing. You can't just hire more highly trained nurses out of thin air. Many of them quit or retired during the pandemic. I have a friend who'd a nurse manager. She manages 50 nurses. She said when COVID hit, she was down from 50 to 30 nurses. It's been hell trying to hire more. Ontario isn't the only province with this problem, it's Canada wide. More funding is not the answer. They're trying to hire more nurses from other countries, but it's not a simple process. It involves both federal and provincial governments and like anything the government does, things move at a snail's pace. I know you like to blame Ford for our problems, but it's simply not the case. I'm actually surprised you didn't blame him for causing the pandemic.

Industry has been clamouring for the government to assist with worker shortages in many sectors of the economy,
including retail service, the hospitalities, IT and healthcare. Across Canada and North America, there is a net exodus, exacerbated by the pandemic of nurses, nursing aides, PSWs, lab technicians and medical technologists from the labour market .. The solution would be to bring in foreign trained workers, which has happened before with nurses but is easier said than done for many reasons.
Countries like the Philippines now have nursing shortages of their own and are restricting other countries like Canada and America from pilfering their supply. Ontario has fast tracked the licensing of foreign trained nurses earlier this year.

There is a squander resource consisting of so many able bodied or formely able bodied people born in Canada that are now drug addicted, lazy on social assistance or just possessing very poor unemployable attitudes towards working.
For some reason, many young Canadians are not entering job training programs that would satisfy employment vacancies in industry.

 

[Darts]

The great city state of Singapore has a hybrid medical system.
What is the difference between private and public healthcare in Singapore? (april-international.com)

 

[Darts]

There is a squander resource consisting of so many able bodied or formely able bodied people born in Canada that are now drug addicted, lazy on social assistance or just possessing very poor unemployable attitudes towards working.
We know the reason why but we are not allowed to say it.
For some reason, many young Canadians are not entering job training programs that would satisfy employment vacancies in industry.
We know the reason why but are not allowed to say it.

 

[barnacler]

Why do people say “the answer from the left is always spend more to fix it!”

Bullshit. It’s hardly ever said, unless it’s used in that bullshit quote.

I epitomize “the left”… and I long for the days of Chrétien and Martin running Ottawa fairly responsibly. Yes, the country needs to invest in things like Healthcare, Education, and a social safety net…. But it doesn’t mean I like to see my tax dollars wasted, or stolen.

Stop playing identify politics. It’s juvenile.

No, simply saying it is Juvenile does not make it true.

Every left-leaning politician exagerates 'cuts' and equates spending more with the solution to the problem.

Andrea Horwath (BOLDing / underlining is mine)
****

For decades, Conservative and Liberal governments’ big cuts and bad choices have damaged Ontario’s health care system. Doug Ford was cutting critical health services before the pandemic – he slashed public health units from 35 to 10, and hisb, Bill 124, froze the wages of health care workers below the rate of inflation.

He refused to spend the money needed to shore up hospitals and health care during the pandemic. Disrespected, burnt out nurses and other health care workers are leaving the sector in droves.

Steven Del Duca and the Liberals created Ontario’s hallway medicine crisis. They froze hospital budgets and fired 1,600 nurses. They can’t be trusted to fix what they broke.

Together, we can fix this. The Ontario NDP has a practical, doable plan to rebuild and strengthen health care in Ontario. We’re committed to making investments in critical services. We’ll make sure health care workers get the pay they deserve and launch a campaign to recruit, retain and return nurses and other health care workers to our hospitals and public health units, including in underserved areas like rural and northern communities.

****

I think that that is a good example. Every problem is a lack of spending, every solution is more spending or - ah, excuse me '\- "investment" (LMAO)

That was about the easiest refutation I have ever had, Cheers mate!