Biden in a no-win Saudi oil bind

mjg1

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Name the government program which provides these 'subsidies" to the oil companies ?

You can not because there are no subsidies

CRA Capital cost allowances allow for legitimate deductions when a oil company spends money to explore for oil , just like the CCA for an auto-parts company who spend on new technology or your company invests in a new computer system
re govt land drilling, the government collects both leases and royalties fro these

if you had a clue you would know the cashflow is from oil company to govt to the tune of billions



those greedy Saudis & OPEC prefer price stability



do not fool yourself
you will using FF for the rest of your days and so will will your grandkids


I don't know what world you are living in, but governments all over the world give subsidies to fossil fuel companies, just like the farm subsidies farmers get here in the States(mostly big corporate farms).
 
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jcpro

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JohnLarue

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I don't know what world you are living in, but governments all over the world give subsidies to fossil fuel companies, just like the farm subsidies farmers get here in the States(mostly big corporate farms).
You do not know the difference between a subsidy (govt giving company money) and a capital cost allowance for depreciation/ depletion to reduce taxes
All companies can apply for capital cost allowance tax deductions for depreciation/ depletion of assets

Note from your article
Similarly, several measures to aid oil companies passed in the early 1900s remain of key importance to the industry, Healey notes. These include one provision passed in 1916 to speed up depreciation of drilling costs. A second one, the oil depletion allowance, which became law in 1926, gives oil companies a tax break for depleting an oil reservoir.
All deprecation & depletion tax deductions
since every operating company taht pays taxes is able to avial themselves of capital cost tx deductions this is standard for all business

No subsidies
The cash flow is from the oil industry to govt for billions

You have been fooled via biased propaganda and ignorance of the facts
 
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mjg1

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You do not know the difference between a subsidy (govt giving company money) and a capital cost allowance for depreciation/ depletion to reduce taxes
All companies can apply for capital cost allowance tax deductions for depreciation/ depletion of assets

Note from your article


All deprecation & depletion tax deductions
since every operating company taht pays taxes is able to avial themselves of capital cost tx deductions this is standard for all business

No subsidies
The cash flow is from the oil industry to govt for billions

You have been fooled via biased propaganda and ignorance of the facts
.
"Direct subsidies for fossil fuel production - money that follows directly from the government to fossil fuels companies to support activities like exploration, extraction, and development. A conservative estimate from Oil Change International puts the U.S. total at around $20.5 billion annually."

By the way, tax subsidies are subsidies, they can come from direct payments or taxes and essential industries get more that are available to any average non-essential industry. Energy producers both fossil and clean get it. Sometimes farmers get gov't payments/subsidies when crops fail and sometimes they get payments/subsidies not to plant certain crops, along with their tax deductions. Your notion that energy companies both fossil & clean don't get special treatment is wrong!
 

JohnLarue

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.
"Direct subsidies for fossil fuel production - money that follows directly from the government to fossil fuels companies to support activities like exploration, extraction, and development. A conservative estimate from Oil Change International puts the U.S. total at around $20.5 billion annually."
name the government program which is sending money to oil companies
you cant because it does not exists

About - Oil Change International (priceofoil.org)
Oil Change International (OCI) is a research, communications, and advocacy organization focused on exposing the true costs of fossil fuels and facilitating the ongoing transition to clean energy.
your biased propaganda advocacy organization can not name the program either, because it does not exist


By the way, tax subsidies are subsidies, they can come from direct payments or taxes and essential industries get more that are available to any average non-essential industry.
No !
A subsidy is when the govt hands money to a company ie the govt writes a cheque


sub·si·dy
[ˈsəbsədē]

NOUN
  1. a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive:
    "a farm subsidy" ·
    [more]
    • a sum of money granted to support an arts organization or other undertaking held to be in the public interest:
      "she was anxious about her Arts Council subsidy" ·
      [more]
      synonyms:
      funds · assets · money · capital · resources · cash · wealth ·
      [more]
    • a grant or contribution of money:
      "the position is generously rewarded and benefits include a mortgage subsidy" ·
      [more]

A capital cost allowance is a deduction of investment expense against taxable income
Any company in Canada, the US (& pretty sure Europe ) in any legal business can deduct capital cost depreciation for investments in assests to grow the business
it is a tax policy which promote overall investment and economic growth

and once again there is no cheque written by govt to the oil industry, just a legal tax deduction


Energy producers both fossil and clean get it.
Green energy companies get a cheque written to them by govt for feed in tariffs ie above market rate contracts (it is the use for a lot of the Ontario Provincial debt thanks granny wynne)
FF company's do not get a cheque written to them by govt
FF company's write cheques to govt for royalties and for billions

Both Green energy and FF companies can apply CRA capital cost deductions on capital purchase of assets against taxable income


Sometimes farmers get gov't payments/subsidies when crops fail and sometimes they get payments/subsidies not to plant certain crops, along with their tax deductions.
if the govt writes a cheque to a farmer then that is a subsidy

Your notion that energy companies both fossil & clean don't get special treatment is wrong!
you are absolutely wrong

Green energy companies get a cheque written to them by govt
FF company's do not get a cheque written to them by govt
FF company's write cheques to govt for royalties and for billions
 
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Frankfooter

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mjg1

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The notion that a subsidy is only a check, is completely wrong.
Fossil fuel subsidies generally take two forms. Production subsidies are tax breaks or direct payments that reduce the cost of producing coal, oil and gas.
Here in America the three biggest beneficiaries of gov't subsidies are energy, agriculture and transportation and that includes the fossil fuels industry. So you are saying Canada doesn't subsidize the fossil fuel industry??
 
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JohnLarue

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The notion that a subsidy is only a check, is completely wrong.
Fossil fuel subsidies generally take two forms. Production subsidies are tax breaks or direct payments that reduce the cost of producing coal, oil and gas.
Here in America the three biggest beneficiaries of gov't subsidies are energy, agriculture and transportation and that includes the fossil fuels industry. So you are saying Canada doesn't subsidize the fossil fuel industry??
#1 Incorrect statement " Production subsidies are tax breaks"

Name the govt program that has government sending money to oil companies based on production volumes
You can not as no such programs exist

Oil companies pay royalties to government based on production volumes

The CRA capital cost allowance is available to ALL companies who buy depreciating / depleting assets

#2 incorrect statement ' direct payments that reduce the cost of producing coal, oil and gas.
Name the govt program that has government sending money to oil companies based to reduce production costs
You can not as no such programs exist

#3 Incorrect statement "Here in America the three biggest beneficiaries of gov't subsidies are energy, agriculture and transportation"

Name the govt program that has government sending money to oil companies
 

JohnLarue

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Wait a minute....how can old Joe stop something that doesn't exist? According to JL the fossil fuel industry doesn't get subsidies!!
Sleepy Joe is asleep at the wheel

if there were subsidies Joe would have shut then down 18 months ago

Again if you had a clue you would know governments rake in Gabillions in royalties corporate income taxes and sales taxes on fuel
It is the oil companies who are subsidizing financially irresponsible governments

wake up
 

mjg1

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Sleepy Joe is asleep at the wheel

if there were subsidies Joe would have shut then down 18 months ago

Again if you had a clue you would know governments rake in Gabillions in royalties corporate income taxes and sales taxes on fuel
It is the oil companies who are subsidizing financially irresponsible governments

wake up
Yeah right...the fossil fuel industry doesn't get subsidies....whatever you say stable genius!



 
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JohnLarue

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Yeah right...the fossil fuel industry doesn't get subsidies....whatever you say stable genius!



quoting the guardian proves nothing
other than you need to expand your reading sources

Again
Name the govt program which sends govt money to oil companies
you can not name it

Again if you had a clue you would know governments rake in Gabillions in royalties corporate income taxes and sales taxes on fuel
 

mjg1

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quoting the guardian proves nothing
other than you need to expand your reading sources

Again
Name the govt program which sends govt money to oil companies
you can not name it

Again if you had a clue you would know governments rake in Gabillions in royalties corporate income taxes and sales taxes on fuel
Who cares what they name it, you think I know every Federal and State gov't program or where all the money goes. Nobody in their right mind believes the fossil fuel industry doesn't get gov't subsidies, I guess you know more than Forbes!

I bet you also believe:
- The 2020 election was stolen from Trump.
- Putin's invasion in Ukraine is justified.
- The Buffalo supermarket killings weren't racially motivated.
- QAnon theories are spot-on.
 

JohnLarue

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Who cares what they name it, you think I know every Federal and State gov't program or where all the money goes. Nobody in their right mind believes the fossil fuel industry doesn't get gov't subsidies, I guess you know more than Forbes!

Who cares what they name it ???
If the program does not exists then it can not be named

It is supposedly billions of dollars in 'subsidies" sent from govt to oil companies
amounts in the billions need to be dispersed by a govt agency under a specific program.. govt needs a need a paper trail for billions

name the program

you can not as no such program exists

I bet you also believe:
- The 2020 election was stolen from Trump.
- Putin's invasion in Ukraine is justified.
- The Buffalo supermarket killings weren't racially motivated.
- QAnon theories are spot-on.
???? what does any of that have to with understanding what a subsidy is ????

BTW you would lose the bet
do you incorrectly stereotype everyone who questions your understanding?
 

mjg1

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Who cares what they name it ???
If the program does not exists then it can not be named

It is supposedly billions of dollars in 'subsidies" sent from govt to oil companies
amounts in the billions need to be dispersed by a govt agency under a specific program.. govt needs a need a paper trail for billions

name the program

you can not as no such program exists



???? what does any of that have to with understanding what a subsidy is ????

BTW you would lose the bet
do you incorrectly stereotype everyone who questions your understanding?
So Forbes is lying?
 

JohnLarue

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So Forbes is lying?
That's an odd question to ask about the source you introduced

Forbes could not and did not name the imaginary govt program where billions in govt cash is dispersed to OIl companies

All you need to do is just name the program, & the government department which is writing billions of dollars of cheques to oil companies
oops does not exist

read the Forbes article
"The study includes the negative externalities caused by fossil fuels that society has to pay for, not reflected in their actual costs."

These are imaginary cost some biased , eco warrior, with an agenda, dreamt up
Similar costs could dreamt up for miming, forestry, manufacturing, farming, fishing, construction, electronics , transportation and utilities industries

meanwhile the factual truth of the matter is quite the opposite from "subsidies"

US Revenues from Fossil Fuels, Responsible for $138 Billion Annually, Expected to Fall Regardless of Climate Action (rff.org)

A new RFF working paper, currently under review at a peer-reviewed economics journal, finds that between 2015 and 2020, fossil fuels generated roughly $138 billion each year for US localities, states, tribes, and the federal government.

in Canada
Opinion: Oil and gas taxes pay for a lot of social benefits | Financial Post

Governments would need to find $25 billion per year to replace oil and gas revenues
there is rhetoric and then there is fact
 
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Gstep

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Daniel Williams
June 09, 2022

US President Joe Biden is trying to figure out how to placate Saudi Arabia’s de facto leader Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and get his country to produce more oil.


Biden, under domestic criticism for high inflation, needs to somehow lower the price of oil. Saudi Arabia has more on hand than anyone.


But getting Saudi help will be hard. Biden once called the kingdom a “pariah.” A US intelligence report effectively labeled Prince Mohammed a murderer for overseeing the 2018 killing of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

Nonetheless, Biden’s spokesperson said it is the president’s duty to keep communications open. Never mind that Khashoggi, who wrote for the Washington Post, was murdered in a Saudi consulate in Turkey and that his killers chopped up his body into pieces for easy transport out.


Or that the Saudis oppose Biden’s efforts to cut a nuclear weapons deal with Iran.


“The president will meet with any leader if it serves the interests of the American people,” spokesperson Karine Jean-Pierre said Tuesday. “That’s what he puts first.”

It’s a conundrum at the collision of two competing foreign policy desires: to be tough on Russia and tough on Saudi Arabia. The two goals have turned out to be incompatible. Each has stumbled over complications from using oil as a pressure tool.


There are two difficulties with Biden’s oil diplomacy. First, it’s far from certain that the Saudis and the other 12 members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) will want to increase supply or even can.

Saudi Arabia and petroleum powerhouse United Arab Emirates will not want to boost production by themselves. Doing so would effectively steal market share from their OPEC partners.


Moreover, several OPEC members, including Libya, Venezuela and Nigeria, cannot meet cartel quotas set months ago; their wells, equipment and refineries fell into disarray during the Covid crisis.


According to Argus, a commodities media company, OPEC is underperforming its quotas by more than 1 million barrels per day.


China, which has imposed no boycotts on its Russia trade, cannot ramp up purchases of Moscow’s oil. If it could, that would effectively rebalance the global market by freeing up oil it usually imports from elsewhere for sale to someone else. But, China lacks the pipeline capacity to increase purchases directly from Russia.


Finally, oil traders generally are skittish about financing Russian sales.

The Saudis recently bent a bit on production by getting OPEC to agree on slight increases. But experts say the gesture is not enough to reduce spiraling prices. “Unless the Russian petroleum supply shortfall can be contained, it appears necessary for the price of oil to increase substantially and to remain elevated for a long period,” the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas wrote.


The other complication with Biden’s effort to squeeze Russia out of Ukraine is his hostility to the Saudi regime. That animus was in evidence even before he took office. In his mind, Saudi is a regional, autocratic troublemaker, not simply a source of petroleum.

Animus antecedents

During a presidential campaign debate, not only did Biden label Saudi Arabia a “pariah”; he also attacked the government for human rights abuses and unwarranted military involvement in Yemen’s civil war.


Asked what he would do about it, Biden responded, “I would make it very clear we were not going to, in fact, sell more weapons to them. We were going to, in fact, make them pay the price.”


He added that there was “very little social redeeming value in the present government in Saudi Arabia.” It was a clear swipe at Prince Mohammed.

US presidential candidates often say things during campaigns that represent slaps at opponents.


On the one hand, the hard-line was a critique of Biden’s predecessor Donald Trump, who had overlooked the Khashoggi case and maintained uncritical, realpolitik-style relations with Riyadh.


By way of contrast, Biden’s harsh words about Saudi Arabia reflected a new appraisal among some advisors.


In June 2020, five months before Biden’s election, Daniel Benaim, an advisor to Biden when he served as vice-president under Barack Obama, wrote an essay entitled “A Progressive Course Correction for US-Saudi Relations” for The Century Foundation, a liberal think tank.

In it, Benaim labeled Saudi involvement in the Yemen civil war and the Khashoggi murder “ill-considered choices that have undermined US interests.” He proposed “a course correction in US-Saudi relations.”


His recommended changes included improvements in Saudi human rights performance and a reduction of negative attitudes towards Iran, with which Biden was trying to cut a nuclear weapons deal. “If Riyadh fails to do this, it can expect to see strategic cooperation with Washington grow increasingly limited,” Benaim wrote.


He also advised that Washington had an opportunity to pressure Saudi Arabia to change because the US “is not beholden to Saudi oil.” At the time, the US was self-sufficient.


In January 2021, when Biden took office, he chose Benaim as his deputy assistant secretary of state for Arabian peninsula affairs.


Soon, the administration began to act on Benaim’s convictions. Biden released a scathing report written by the US Office of National Intelligence that concluded, “We assess that Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman approved an operation in Istanbul, Turkey, to capture or kill Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.”

Biden’s spokesperson noted that Biden was not taking telephone calls from the crown prince. Then Russia invaded Ukraine. Suddenly, it was Mohammed who was not returning Biden’s phone calls, the Wall Street Journal reported last March.


Biden is promising to visit Saudi Arabia – likely in July, officials in Washington said.


The question now is whether Biden will have to effectively bow to Prince Mohammed. It’s unlikely he will follow Trump’s effusive lead by performing in a traditional Saudi sword dance at a reception in the Saudi capital.

Trump got a medal from the crown prince after saying that the Saudi leader “maybe” had nothing to do with Khashoggi’s death.


In any event, Biden’s outreach will be difficult to sell to critics who think the US has coddled autocratic Saudi Arabia for too long. Even a handshake with Prince Mohammed might prove controversial.


“A presidential trip to Saudi Arabia right now is going to be confirmation, validation, not just that it’s business as usual but that bin Salman got away with murder,” said Aaron David Miller, a Middle East expert who worked at the State Department under Presidents Bill Clinton and George W Bush.

FUCK MBS.
Hope he sucks on a bag of dicks and chokes to death, would be a most fitting end for that murdering scumbag.
 
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