Some Ontario restaurants are starting to adopt a tip-free dining model. Here's how it works

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Assuming that one calculates a tip amount using a particular percentage, do you tip on the full amount of the bill or on the the pre-tax amount?

I totally do not understand why one would tip on the amount that the gov't is charging us. It has nothing to do with the service I have received, which is what the tip is meant for.

The new machines that give percentage options calculate it on the full final amount. As such, I always do the calculation in my head and select the dollar amount which would correspond to 15% of the pre-tax amount.
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
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I'm glad I'm old and on the way out- too many changes for my liking. At the couple of places I frequent, the barkeeps know my name and I don't even have to ask for a drink or a refill or wait for that matter. Same goes for the dining room service because I'm not cheap. Stand up guys(and gals) will still reward great service and ensure they get priority over the sheep. Perhaps this is good for the staff, but it also promotes mediocrity and hampers the truly outstanding servers. Canada, generally, has already shitty customer service; sales people that can't sell, don't know their products or wait staff that doesn't know the specials or ingredients. This will not improve it. But, hey, as long as they have a living wage...
 

nervousintheservice

nobody cares
Oct 1, 2010
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I did a short stint as a busboy while attending school. The policy at that restaurant was to put all the tips in a jar and is then divvy up at the end of the night. Any server who cheats will find the cooks really slow in filling her orders.

P.S. I'm aware of two restaurants that will only accept plastic, no cash.
That doesn't stop you from leaving a cash tip for the server.
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
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I'm glad I'm old and on the way out- too many changes for my liking. At the couple of places I frequent, the barkeeps know my name and I don't even have to ask for a drink or a refill or wait for that matter. Same goes for the dining room service because I'm not cheap. Stand up guys(and gals) will still reward great service and ensure they get priority over the sheep. Perhaps this is good for the staff, but it also promotes mediocrity and hampers the truly outstanding servers. Canada, generally, has already shitty customer service; sales people that can't sell, don't know their products or wait staff that doesn't know the specials or ingredients. This will not improve it. But, hey, as long as they have a living wage...
I think you touched on the real issue.

Cheap.

Being wise with your money is fine, but being cheap is definitely not. It's not a good look.

Those who bitch and complain about tipping are usually cheapskates. Simple as that. And wait staff hate them.

Either that or they're broke and can't afford to tip.

Take your pick.
 
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jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
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I think you touched on the real issue.

Cheap.

Being wise with your money is fine, but being cheap is definitely not. It's not a good look.

Those who bitch and complain about tipping are usually cheapskates. Simple as that. And wait staff hate them.

Either that or they're broke and can't afford to tip.

Take your pick.
Precisely. And it applies to everything service wise. I steer most of our company's purchases only to the suppliers who deliver exceptional customer service even if their prices are slightly higher because, in the end, we save money on things like timely deliveries and they step up to the plate in the last minute emergencies. It especially paid off in the covid times when we have all kinds of shortages and delays- I'm always at the head of the line and the suppliers go extra mile finding product.
 
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Ryan4life

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2011
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I think you touched on the real issue.

Cheap.

Being wise with your money is fine, but being cheap is definitely not. It's not a good look.

Those who bitch and complain about tipping are usually cheapskates. Simple as that. And wait staff hate them.

Either that or they're broke and can't afford to tip.

Take your pick.
The only one that is cheap is the restaurant owner that is too cheap to pay there workers a proper wage. Why should it be the customers job to supplement an employees wages. Also do you tip at Mcdonalds and Tim hortons? How about when a Rogers/Bell customer service agent helped you out setting you up with a new cell phone plan? ..No? Why not? stop being a cheapskate.
 
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Garynever

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Jan 24, 2022
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The only one that is cheap is the restaurant owner that is too cheap to pay there workers a proper wage. Why should it be the customers job to supplement an employees wages. Also do you tip at Mcdonalds and Tim hortons? How about when a Rogers/Bell customer service agent helped you out setting you up with a new cell phone plan? ..No? Why not? stop being a cheapskate.
Lmao thank you for bringing out the real issue.

why is David Chang a millionaire but his cook staff is making minimum wage?
Why can mcewan open up a series of grocery stores but his sous chefs barely scrape together 60k a year?

owners of restaurants do well, and margins are nowhere near as bad as they make them seem.

They can pay their workers more but choose not to do so out of greed.
And we perpetuate and enable that system by tipping exuberant amounts ensuring a subsidized wage
 
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rgkv

old timer
Nov 14, 2005
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I worked in six different kitchens as a cook over my life with about ten years in the industry, and the highest percentage I ever received was 1% of the monthly pool.

And they did not calculate the monthly pool correctly.

I do know of restaurants that tip pool but I don’t think it’s a common as most assume, all the cooks I knew had never been apart of it.
I think not so much anymore.. daughter works for Jack Astors and all tips are pooled and divided equal, and she still has 500$ nights
 

Garynever

Member
Jan 24, 2022
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I think not so much anymore.. daughter works for Jack Astors and all tips are pooled and divided equal, and she still has 500$ nights
Works as a cook or as a server/runner/hostess?
And family chains or corporate kitchens often have the most equal policy in fear of employee backlash and company image.
 

Darts

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2017
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Also do you tip at Mcdonalds and Tim hortons? How about when a Rogers/Bell customer service agent helped you out setting you up with a new cell phone plan? ..No?
Obviously, I don't speak for all employers but where I work staff are not allowed to accept tips or gifts from clients. The exception is when declining a gift will offend the client. In that case, the employee must report the gift to the company chief compliance officer.
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
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The only one that is cheap is the restaurant owner that is too cheap to pay there workers a proper wage. Why should it be the customers job to supplement an employees wages. Also do you tip at Mcdonalds and Tim hortons? How about when a Rogers/Bell customer service agent helped you out setting you up with a new cell phone plan? ..No? Why not? stop being a cheapskate.
Well you saw that Barque is paying its wait staff $22.25 per hour.

Let's do the math.

Minimum wage in Ontario is 15 bucks an hour. So Barque is paying wait staff another 7.25 per hour on top of minimum with no tips (allegedly)

So after 8 hours, that waiter is taking home 8 x 7.25 = $58.00

Now let's say that in 8 hours that same waiter waits on 8 tables with a bill of $100.00 per table (that's a very conservative number as it equals only 1 table per 8 hours) So 800 bucks in total invoices and the waiter receives say 20 percent in tips.

That equals $160.00 to the waiter. The reality is that the waiter is probably making double that or more in 8 hours.

In other words, same waiter, same number of hours, waiter makes $100.00 more in a tipping culture.

You'd have to be fucking stupid as a server to agree to any such nonsense as working for an hourly wage. And I'm being really conservative with my numbers above. Any waiter worth his salt will quit Barque and find a job somewhere else leaving Barque dead in the water.

As to your question, what about McDonalds or Tim Hortons, sometimes I do tip at Tim Hortons, always in Quebec it's expected and they always leave a pile of change on the counter which tells you to add to the pile. But as far as it goes, the people who work at Hortons or Bell or Timmies are free to quit and get a job in a restaurant waiting tables. Whatever floats your boat.

But let me close this discussion.......

How bout freedom of choice. Let the Servers decide if they want to work in a tipping culture or for an hourly rate. So be it. You know when you go in there that it's a tipping culture. If you don't like it, you are free to seek out a restaurant (like McDonalds) which is not based on a tipping culture. Everyone is happy.
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
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Lmao thank you for bringing out the real issue.

why is David Chang a millionaire but his cook staff is making minimum wage?
Why can mcewan open up a series of grocery stores but his sous chefs barely scrape together 60k a year?

owners of restaurants do well, and margins are nowhere near as bad as they make them seem.

They can pay their workers more but choose not to do so out of greed.
And we perpetuate and enable that system by tipping exuberant amounts ensuring a subsidized wage
McEwan is a really bad example.
 

rgkv

old timer
Nov 14, 2005
4,007
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Works as a cook or as a server/runner/hostess?
And family chains or corporate kitchens often have the most equal policy in fear of employee backlash and company image.
Since a lot of staff disappeared, she does a little of everything. Restaurants everywhere are short staffed
 

canada-man

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Jun 16, 2007
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Toronto, Ontario
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I think you touched on the real issue.

Cheap.

Being wise with your money is fine, but being cheap is definitely not. It's not a good look.

Those who bitch and complain about tipping are usually cheapskates. Simple as that. And wait staff hate them.

Either that or they're broke and can't afford to tip.

Take your pick.


the only cheap ones are restaurant owners who outsource their payroll duties to costumers.
 

canada-man

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Jun 16, 2007
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canadianmale.wordpress.com
7 Wage Violations In The Restaurant & Food Service Industry

According to the National Restaurant Association, 14 million Americans currently work in restaurants.

Some of these employees love the fast-paced challenge of serving customers on a busy night. Some are on the path to their dream job of owning their own restaurant. For others, especially talented young servers in large cities, a food service job can be extremely profitable.

But for many workers, food service is a job, pure and simple: a way to support themselves and their families.

Wage Theft In The Restaurant Industry
No matter your motivations, whether you’re a working artist trying to get by or a gifted server who just loves interacting with others, restaurant jobs are hard.

For employers, they’re also extremely lucrative: the restaurant industry raked in $709.2 billion in sales in 2015 alone. That’s nearly double what restaurants pulled in only 15 years ago. But those incredible gains haven’t managed to trickle down.

The median annual wage for a server in the US is now $21,640, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, around $8,000 lower than the median wage across all occupations.

Thankfully, the Fair Labor Standards Act entitles most low-wage restaurant workers to earn overtime wages. Over the course of a year, overtime pay can substantially increase an employee’s earnings, opening possibilities that would remain a dream on base wages and tips or a salary alone.

But wage theft, particularly common in the restaurant industry, undermines those possibilities every day. Here are the 7 most frequent FLSA wage violations found in restaurants, banquet halls and catering services.

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7 Common Restaurant Wage & Hour Violations
Wage and hour regulations for food service are particularly complex, and some businesses violate them simply out of ignorance. Other owners know they can skirt the law and still get by. In either case, employers can and should be held accountable for violating the Fair Labor Standards Act.

1. Using The Tip Credit – Unlawfully & Lawfully
In most restaurants, FOH staff make a substantial portion of their wages from tips. But even servers who make a lot from tips are still entitled to an additional base wage; it’s illegal for employers to “pay” their workers through customer tips alone.

If you make more than $30 on average every month in tips, you’re considered a “tipped employee” under the FLSA. Your employer is allowed to take a “tip credit,” which reduces their wage obligations in proportion to how much you make in tips.

But there’s a hard limit to this credit: $5.12 per hour. Which means that your hourly wage must be at least $2.13 every hour, since $2.13 and $5.12 add up to the federal minimum wage of $7.25. If you’re making less than $2.13 an hour in base wages, it’s very likely that you’re being stolen from.

States That Stand Up For Restaurant Workers
Several states have passed laws that require employers to pay even their tipped employees the full state minimum wage, effectively eliminating the FLSA’s “tip credit option”:

In Alaska, restaurant workers are entitled to $9.80 per hour, the state minimum wage, regardless of how much they make in tips.
In California, workers are guaranteed at least $10 (at companies with 25 workers or fewer) or $10.50 (at employers with 26 employees of more) an hour before tips.
In Minnesota, employers with gross annual sales less than $50,000 must pay their tipped employees $7.25 per hour, regardless of tips. For businesses with sales over $50,000, tipped workers are entitled to $9.00 an hour.
In Montana, businesses with more than $110,000 in gross annual sales have to pay their tipped employees an hourly wage of at least $8.15. Businesses with lower sales who aren’t otherwise covered by the FLSA are allowed to pay their workers as little as $4 per hour.
In Nevada, tipped employees who don’t receive health insurance through their employer are entitled to a base wage of $8.25. Workers who do get health insurance must be paid at $7.25 an hour, regardless of tips.
In Oregon, all tipped employees are entitled to an hourly wage of $10.25, no matter their tips.
In Washington, employers are required to pay their tipped workers at least $11.00 an hour.
In states with minimum wages higher than the federal wage of $7.25, the maximum tip credit is proportionally lower. For example, Arizona’s minimum wage is currently $10 per hour. Employers are allowed to take a tip credit no more than $3.00, and must pay tipped employees a base wage no less than $5.05 per hour.

To find out if your state has a minimum wage that changes how much your employer can deduct from your base wage, visit the Department Of Labor’s Wage & Hour Division website.

Overtime With A Tip Credit
Most restaurant workers who work more than 40 hours in a given workweek are entitled to overtime wages for their extra hours.

The rate at which these wages are paid must be calculated on the minimum wage, not the base wage that’s been lowered through a tip credit. The tip credit then comes in after the regular rate has been calculated. Here’s how:

Under the FLSA, covered workers are entitled to overtime wages at one-and-a-half their “regular rate,” an hourly rate that includes base wages, salary and commissions. For tipped employees, who often make less than the minimum wage in cash wages, the “regular rate” begins with the minimum wage.

Rebecca is a server working in a state where the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour holds. No matter how many tips she makes in a given week, her employer calculates her overtime wages using the federal minimum wage: $7.25 times 1.5 is equal to $10.88. Now her employer applies a tip credit to that time-and-a-half rate. Let’s say Rebecca makes good tips and her employer is going to take the maximum tip credit allowed: $5.12. Subtracting $5.12 from $10.88 makes Rebecca’s overtime wage $5.76. She’s entitled to that wage for any hours worked over 40 in a workweek.

2. Not Paying Minimum Wage For Sidework
Some tipped workers are required to perform “side work,” tasks for which they don’t receive tips. When a server isn’t serving, but has to fold napkins or brew coffee, they’re doing side work. Side work may or may not be directly related “tipped” work; for the FLSA, it doesn’t matter.

If a tipped employee spends more than 20% of their time performing side work, that time needs to be compensated at the federal or state-established minimum wage, not their “tip credit” base wage.

Let’s say Jen works an 8 hour shift. She’s actively serving customers, and receiving tips for that service, for 5 hours. But it’s a slow day, so the other 3 hours of her shift are spent polishing glasses, rolling silverware and making fresh pots of coffee.

She isn’t tipped for that time, and since 3 hours is around 38% of her shift, Jen’s entitled to the full minimum wage for those hours, rather than the base wage of $2.13 she usually makes. If Jen had done 1 hour of side work, she would only be entitled to $2.13 for that hour.

3. Pooling Tips For Non-Tipped Workers
Some employers will “pool” all the tips earned in a given period and then divide them up among their employees. This is legal, if only tipped employees are allowed to share in the pool’s payout.

Pooling becomes unlawful, a violation of federal law, if workers who don’t receive tips (like managers, silver polishers and most back of house staff) receive a share of the pool.

Unlawful tip pooling is a way for businesses to subsidize a portion of their untipped workers’ wages at the expense of tipped employees. Unfortunately, the total amount of tips can become so large after pooling that many FOH workers won’t realize they’re being taken advantage of.

4. Not Informing Employees Of A Tip Credit
Your employer has to tell you about the tip credit they’re taking before they can take it. If they don’t notify you first, the tip credit is invalid and constitutes a wage violation.

Either verbally or in writing, an employer has to tell you:

What your cash wage will be after the tip credit is deducted
The amount the employer is claiming as a tip credit
That the tip credit cannot be greater than the amount of tips you actually made
That you have a right to retain all of the tips you received, unless you’re part of a tip pool that’s valid under the FLSA
That the tip credit is invalid unless you’ve been informed of this information
Unless your employer informs you of these 5 things, they are not allowed to take a tip credit and must pay you at the applicable minimum wage.

5. Not Paying The Minimum Wage When Business Is Slow
Mark works in a state where the FLSA’s regulations hold and is entitled to a minimum wage of $7.25. As a server he usually makes good tips, and his employer deducts the full tip credit of $5.13, paying Mark a base wage of $2.13 per hour.

But during the winter, business slows down. One Wednesday, Mark works a 6 hour shift, and only makes $20 in tips. When Mark gets his paycheck, he notices that his employer has only paid him at the base wage of $2.13, $12.78 total, for that Wednesday shift.

On a really busy day, when Mark does well in tips, that might be okay. But Mark only made $20 in tips Wednesday. After some calculations, Mark realizes that he only made $3.33 in tips per hour. But since $3.33 plus $2.13 is $5.46, Mark’s been paid at lower than the minimum wage.

Mark’s employer should have paid him a base wage of at least $3.92 to make up the difference. $3.92 plus $3.33, Mark’s hourly wage in tips, would have come to $7.25, the applicable minimum wage where Mark works.

Noticing wage violations like this can be very difficult. Workers often find that keeping track of their own hours and tips, and then calculating how much they are entitled to under the FLSA for their time, is the only way to ensure they’re being paid what they deserve.

6. Misclassifying Employees
The vast majority of servers, bussers and bartenders should never be classified as “exempt” from the FLSA’s minimum wage and overtime protections.

Back of house occupations are a little more complicated:

Most chefs who have earned culinary arts degrees from a four-year, specialized academic program will be considered “learned professionals” under the FLSA and not entitled to overtime pay.

But cooks who perform mainly routine physical or manual work should not be classified as professionals, and are usually entitled to overtime wages.

To learn more about valid and invalid exemptions from the FLSA, click here.

7. Paying Employees Less Than Minimum Wage To Make Up For Drawer Shortages Or Customer Walk-Outs
The vast majority of restaurant workers are entitled to the minimum wage, regardless of on-the-job contingencies. If a drawer comes up short at the end of a shift, or some customers walk out without paying their bill, employers are allowed to deduct from a worker’s wages to make up the difference – but only if that employee makes more than the applicable minimum wage.

Here’s an example:

Caitlin serves and works the register at a small coffee shop. One week she works 30 hours total, and between her cash wages and tips makes $8.00 an hour. For the week, she made around $4.50 an hour, and her employer made up the difference with $3.50 per hour in base wages.

But one day Caitlin’s drawer came up $30 short. Her employer wants to deduct $30 from her week’s wages to fill the gap. But her boss can’t do that.

Since $30 divided by Caitlin’s total hours, 30, comes out to $1, Caitlin’s base wage would be $2.50. Add $4.50 to that and you get $7.00, less than the federal minimum wage. The most Caitlin’s employer can deduct from her wage is $22.50, or $0.75 an hour, which preserves an hourly wage of $7.25.

 

fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
2,740
679
113
I'm glad I'm old and on the way out- too many changes for my liking. At the couple of places I frequent, the barkeeps know my name and I don't even have to ask for a drink or a refill or wait for that matter. Same goes for the dining room service because I'm not cheap. Stand up guys(and gals) will still reward great service and ensure they get priority over the sheep. Perhaps this is good for the staff, but it also promotes mediocrity and hampers the truly outstanding servers. Canada, generally, has already shitty customer service; sales people that can't sell, don't know their products or wait staff that doesn't know the specials or ingredients. This will not improve it. But, hey, as long as they have a living wage...
So, basically, you promote the idea that paying customers should be treated differently depending on how much they are willing to bribe (sorry, to tip) the waiter.
 

Mr.Know-It-All

Giver of truth
Jul 26, 2020
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The only one that is cheap is the restaurant owner that is too cheap to pay there workers a proper wage. Why should it be the customers job to supplement an employees wages. Also do you tip at Mcdonalds and Tim hortons? How about when a Rogers/Bell customer service agent helped you out setting you up with a new cell phone plan? ..No? Why not? stop being a cheapskate.
This is what I don't like. Tipping is too arbitrary. Why do we tip waiters at restaurants but nobody else?

Waiters provide a service just like any other job. There is nothing special or unique about serving food to a table.
 

Darts

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2017
23,023
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This is what I don't like. Tipping is too arbitrary. Why do we tip waiters at restaurants but nobody else?

Waiters provide a service just like any other job. There is nothing special or unique about serving food to a table.
I have given gifts to my local bike shop and the manager at my local Rogers store.
 

tml

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2011
5,405
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Precisely. And it applies to everything service wise. I steer most of our company's purchases only to the suppliers who deliver exceptional customer service even if their prices are slightly higher because, in the end, we save money on things like timely deliveries and they step up to the plate in the last minute emergencies. It especially paid off in the covid times when we have all kinds of shortages and delays- I'm always at the head of the line and the suppliers go extra mile finding product.
Interesting. As a consumer, I used to think loyalty and generosity would be appreciated by the workers and business owners. In fact, many times I think they viewed me as a sucker. Someone who could be treated second class but would keep coming back. Once I sensed this I simply stopped taking my business there.

One exception is one of the daytime waitresses at Kennedy's(don't know her name but she was a brunette with thick wavy/curly hair). I always tipped her well and every time I walked in and took a seat, she would hurry over with my regular order. Never pressured me for another drink. God, I miss that place!!!!
 
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