Allure Massage

Biden's Big Lie: 'Green' Energy Doesn't Save Money, It's 4-6 Times More-Expensive

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
13,121
1,909
113
Ghawar
Tyler Durden
May 19, 2022

President Joe Biden keeps claiming that wind and solar energy are going to save money for consumers. But more government subsidies to “renewable energy” is a key feature of the White House anti-inflation strategy recently announced by Biden.

He probably got that idea from John Kerry, the administration’s climate czar, who recently claimed that “solar and wind are less expensive than coal or oil or gas.” Pete Buttigieg, the Biden Transportation secretary, makes the same claims about the thousands of dollars that motorists can save if they buy electric cars.

This couldn’t be more wrong.

Proponents of “green” energy boondoggles are often masters at playing with the numbers, because that is the only way that wind and solar electricity generation make any sense. Advocates such as Kerry love to focus on the low operating costs of solar and wind since they don’t require constant purchases of fuel. Ignoring the relatively short lifespan of solar and wind components, as well as the high initial investment, can make it appear as though solar and wind operate at lower costs than fossil fuels or nuclear power.

Let’s get the facts straight. The cost isn’t just what you pay at the retail level for gas or power. It also includes the taxes you pay to subsidize the power. A 2017 study by the Department of Energy found that for every dollar of government subsidy per BTU unit of energy produced from fossil fuels, wind and solar get at least $10.

That’s anything but a money saver.

The reason the subsidies are so high is that solar and wind have additional costs compared to their more reliable competition. “Green” energy sources are non-dispatchable, meaning their output can’t be changed to match demand. The wind doesn’t blow harder, and the sun doesn’t shine brighter, just because electricity use is peaking.

Conversely, fossil fuel entities—such as a coal plant—can ramp up generation when we need it most and ramp down when demand falls.

Widespread adoption of solar and wind generation would necessitate expensive batteries on a large scale to ensure that people still have power when the wind stops blowing or when the sun stops shining—like it does every single night.

So, unlike reliable and flexible natural gas, solar and wind require large-scale storage solutions: massive banks of batteries that are hardly environmentally friendly but are also extremely expensive. And since batteries don’t last forever, they add to both the initial expense and maintenance costs during the life of a solar or wind energy generating station.

The same problem exists with electric cars. The sticker price on EVs is considerably higher than for conventional gas-operated cars, and the so-called savings over time assume that the electric power for recharging is free. But it isn’t and power costs are rising almost as fast as gas prices.

Factors such as these are consistently ignored by Kerry and other “green” energy activists.

To genuinely evaluate dissimilar energy sources and provide an apples-to-apples comparison, the U.S. Energy Information Administration uses the Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE) and the Levelized Cost of Storage (LCOS). These measures consider the initial costs, the lifespan of generation and storage systems, maintenance and fuel costs, decommissioning expenses, subsidies, etc., and compare that to how much electricity is produced over a power plant’s lifetime.

The numbers don’t lie: “green” energy is a complete waste of resources.

The LCOE and LCOS for solar and on-shore wind farms are four times as expensive as natural gas. But offshore wind takes the cake—it’s six times as expensive as natural gas.

Imagine paying four to six times as much every month for the same electricity! That’s the green paradise world that the Biden administration wants for America.

Yet, it’s even worse than that because electric power costs greatly affect the cost of producing nearly everything else. In the case of producing aluminum, for example, a third of the total production cost is electricity alone.

Imagine what quadrupling electricity prices would do to the prices of all the goods and services that people buy. If you think inflation is bad now, just wait until the nation is dependent on wind and solar—then you’ll see REAL price increases.

And despite official government data contradicting their own claims, the Biden administration—including Kerry—continues spouting simple untruths on wind and solar. They hope that no one will check their fantastic facts.

To the left, wanting it to be true, makes it true.

All the while, the middle class is being crushed by $4-a-gallon gasoline and businesses everywhere are buckling under $5-per-gallon diesel. The Wall Street Journal warns that electric power blackouts could be coming because of overreliance on wind and solar power.

At some point, if this push for green energy continues, the whole nation will start to look like California, where gas is $6 a gallon, the lights go out, and electric cars are stranded because of rolling blackouts. If that’s our “green” future, then Americans should want nothing to do with it.

 
Last edited:

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
89,038
21,155
113
Tyler Durden
May 19, 2022

President Joe Biden keeps claiming that wind and solar energy are going to save money for consumers. But more government subsidies to “renewable energy” is a key feature of the White House anti-inflation
This message brought to you by Exxon and the people who keep lying to you so they can make more money while screwing you and the planet over.
 

poker

Everyone's hero's, tell everyone's lies.
Jun 1, 2006
7,742
6,011
113
Niagara
The subsidies are not at retail level…. The subsidies are for start ups.

And why isn’t the article factoring in the massive subsidies already given to oil and coal companies??
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,796
2,451
113
The subsidies are not at retail level…. The subsidies are for start ups.
what part of this did you not understand ?

"The cost isn’t just what you pay at the retail level for gas or power. It also includes the taxes you pay to subsidize the power."

'The reason the subsidies are so high is that solar and wind have additional costs compared to their more reliable competition. “Green” energy sources are non-dispatchable, '


And why isn’t the article factoring in the massive subsidies already given to oil and coal companies??
name the government program which provides these 'massive subsidies"

You can not

the simple reason is the cash flow is from oil co to govt in taxes and royalties ......to the tune of billions of dollars

time to face reality, net zero is an unachievable joke
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
13,121
1,909
113
Ghawar
Those wars in the middle east for oil, that cost should be accounted for when talking about subsidies.
I can't think of any Canadian oil companies drilling oil in Saudi or Iraq.
There may be one or more energy technology companies involved in
business transactions with Saudi. But then Canada has also been a
supplier of military equipment to Saudi too.

Multinational oil companies like Exxon may pull out of the
middle east under the pressure of climate activists in the near
future so Russia and China can take over operations there.
The U.S. will nonetheless continue to muddle into affairs
in the Middle East so long as it remains the poodle of Israel
that it is.
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
13,121
1,909
113
Ghawar
The subsidies are not at retail level…. The subsidies are for start ups.

And why isn’t the article factoring in the massive subsidies already given to oil and coal companies??
Do you truly want the government to stop subsidies to oil
if that is how they lured investment into developing risky
resources? It could be that our government is more confident of
getting the subsidies money back from oil than from wind and
solar.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newfoundland Opens New Round of Offshore Oil Bidding
May 19, 2022

Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board is inviting oil companies to bid on licences for 38 parcels of land totalling almost 100,000 square kilometres off Newfoundland’s east coast.

Ottawa delayed the call for bids in late March by about a month and a half because it wanted more time to review the process.

The delay “caused anxiety within the oil sector,” The Canadian Press reports, because it came three weeks after federal Environment Minister Steven Guilbeault delayed approval for another proposal, the controversial Bay du Nord deepwater oil project off the coast of St. John’s. The minister gave the go-ahead for that project in early April, just days after the latest urgent climate science from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, in what one climate community analyst called a “slap in the face”.

Last week’s call for bids coincided with an announcement from environmental law group Ecojustice that it has filed an application to have Guilbeault’s approval of Bay du Nord examined in Federal Court.

The application for judicial review filed May 6 makes numerous claims, including that Guilbeault did not consider the project’s downstream emissions, which are produced when oil is ultimately burned as fuel.

 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
89,038
21,155
113
Those wars in the middle east for oil, that cost should be accounted for when talking about subsidies.
Exactly.

Add in colonial wars for oil, the 1 in 6 of all deaths caused by fossil fuel pollution, the environmental costs of abandoned wells and then the intentional disinformation that has caused so many billions in climate change extreme weather events damage.

Now add in global crop failures, like in India where birds are dropping from the sky and all wheat exports are banned due to extreme weather/drought.

The oil & gas industry should pay all of those costs.
 

poker

Everyone's hero's, tell everyone's lies.
Jun 1, 2006
7,742
6,011
113
Niagara
what part of this did you not understand ?

"The cost isn’t just what you pay at the retail level for gas or power. It also includes the taxes you pay to subsidize the power."

'The reason the subsidies are so high is that solar and wind have additional costs compared to their more reliable competition. “Green” energy sources are non-dispatchable, '



name the government program which provides these 'massive subsidies"

You can not

the simple reason is the cash flow is from oil co to govt in taxes and royalties ......to the tune of billions of dollars

time to face reality, net zero is an unachievable joke
Net zero may or may not be an achievable joke. That is not what this opinion piece is lying about though.

Once again… big Oil admits climate change is real, and man grearly

Once again, your hero that you had to stop quoting constantly because I pointed out he believes equivocally… climate change is real.

And you wonderful “beers law” which you say the IN and climate scientists never accounted for, in fact accounted for it. And many have explained it. A simple google search provided those results.

I know your mind is broken, and you are simply not capable of changing based on new evidence or “reality”. I know you will never grow past “conservative good, Liberal bad”. And I don’t care. It’s amusing actually.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,796
2,451
113
The application for judicial review filed May 6 makes numerous claims, including that Guilbeault did not consider the project’s downstream emissions, which are produced when oil is ultimately burned as fuel.


How in the world can anyone evaluating an oil and gas project not consider / be aware of the projects downstream emissions ?

It is a given that any FF project will produce hydrocarbons which shall produce emissions

are they claiming that ecowarrior .Minister of Environment and Climate Change Guilbeault is so stunned he does not understand the use of the projects end product?

environmental law group Ecojustice
So Ecojustice & other environmental lobbyists will use the courts to stop / delay the FF projects that Guilbeault decides to approve for political reasons ie vote buying

I wonder how much govt $ ecojustice receives in grants , which it uses to pay lawyers to take the govt to court ?
Govt $ which Justin is borrowing

Meanwhile , gas now costs > $2/ Litre
Inflation is 6.7% and continues to accelerate
Govt debt keeps growing and interest rates are going higher
and the Trudeau govts plan is to strangle one of their primary cash cows, royalties from O & G

What kind of strategy is that ?
A very stupid and irresponsible strategy
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ottawa_cuck

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,796
2,451
113
Net zero may or may not be an achievable joke. That is not what this opinion piece is lying about though.
irrelavant

Net zero is unachievable
The article just confirms how economically stupid it is to even go down this road



Once again… big Oil admits climate change is real, and man grearly
Lawyers for big Oil do not determine science.
Science is determined by experimental results verifying the hypothesis, each and every time

50 years of failed climate predictions is not supportive

Once again, your hero that you had to stop quoting constantly because I pointed out he believes equivocally… climate change is real.
Climate changes, it always has, it always will
It is delusional to think mankind can control climate


And you wonderful “beers law” which you say the IN and climate scientists never accounted for, in fact accounted for it. And many have explained it. A simple google search provided those results.
1653231181224.png

  1. Incremental absorption diminishes towards zero with each incremental increase in concentration
  2. I/Io is always going to be less than one
  3. The total energy absorbed can never be greater than the incident energy
  4. Co2 only absorbs @ 15 microns. a fraction (18%) of the Infrared spectrum and is towards the lower end of the spectrum in terms of energy per wavelength (E=hv)


That wavelength is saturated and has been for quite some time

1653231604708.jpeg
Climate models just ignore this


I know your mind is broken, and you are simply not capable of changing based on new evidence or “reality”. I know you will never grow past “conservative good, Liberal bad”. And I don’t care. It’s amusing actually.
Gee lets see
I apply the physical laws of nature to the AGW question and find it is not supported by the physics

you on the other hand rely on the media, rude teenagers, blind devotion to a fool Justin and opinion polls to do your thinking for you
Justin is a moron, why do you let him think for you?

And you say my mind is broken?
 

Attachments

Last edited:

poker

Everyone's hero's, tell everyone's lies.
Jun 1, 2006
7,742
6,011
113
Niagara
irrelavant

Net zero is unachievable
The article just confirms how economically stupid it is to even go down this road





Lawyers for big Oil do not determine science.
Science is determined by experimental results verifying the hypothesis, each and every time

50 years of failed climate predictions is not supportive



Climate changes, it always has, it always will
It is delusional to think mankind can control climate




View attachment 146256

  1. Incremental absorption diminishes towards zero with each incremental increase in concentration
  2. I/Io is always going to be less than one
  3. The total energy absorbed can never be greater than the incident energy
  4. Co2 only absorbs @ 15 microns. a fraction (18%) of the Infrared spectrum and is towards the lower end of the spectrum in terms of energy per wavelength (E=hv)


That wavelength is saturated and has been for quite some time

View attachment 146257
Climate models just ignore this




Gee lets see
I apply the physical laws of nature to the AGW question and find it is not supported by the physics

you on the other hand rely on the media, rude teenagers, blind devotion to a fool Justin and opinion polls to do your thinking for you
Justin is a moron, why do you let him think for you?

And you say my mind is broken?
Yup. I do say your mind is broken. Copy and paste. Copy and paste. Broken fucking record.

If You don’t understand how courts work, just admit it. Trying the misdirection of “lawyers don’t determine science” is one of the boldest tactics you have tried. Of course they don’t. But the lawyers are not representing themselves. Right? Who are the lawyers representing….? They represent big oil,who have theirs own scientists. Do you really think the 5 biggest oils companies on the planet would allow their lawyers to go in and say that if it wasn’t true? The evidence was presented thoroughly to the judge. It was not a surprise to the lawyers representing big oil as they have disclosures pretrial. Their own scientists would have had a chance to review it…. Which of course, they were already familiar with.

The day big oil admitted it (through their lawyers) I knew the charlatans and pundits profiting off the fossil fuels massive hold on the energy sector were exactly what I always thought.

Big tobacco…. The lead industry… fossil fuels…. All fought the same battle. Lie and deny for years. “Dam the harm it caused, fuck the people who die…. look at all my money!”

You either get it or you don’t.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frankfooter

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
27,060
7,615
113
Room 112
Electricity costs 2019 by state per kWh

California $0.18 [34% natural gas, 23% solar & wind, 15% hydro]
New York $0.15 [33% nuclear, 33% duel fuel, 23% hydro]
Florida $0.10 [67.7% natural gas, 20% coal, 8% nuclear]
Texas $0.09 [47% natural gas, 20% coal, 20% wind, 11% nuclear]
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moviefan-2

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
89,038
21,155
113
Electricity costs 2019 by state per kWh

California $0.18 [34% natural gas, 23% solar & wind, 15% hydro]
New York $0.15 [33% nuclear, 33% duel fuel, 23% hydro]
Florida $0.10 [67.7% natural gas, 20% coal, 8% nuclear]
Texas $0.09 [47% natural gas, 20% coal, 20% wind, 11% nuclear]
Hey Kirk, easy question for you.

Which source for electricity generation requires raw materials whose prices can be controlled by despots like Putin and MBS?
1) wind
2) solar
3) natural gas
4) oil
5) uranium
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,796
2,451
113
Yup. I do say your mind is broken. Copy and paste. Copy and paste. Broken fucking record.
well you should come up with some better material if you think your Copy and paste. is a Broken fucking record.

If You don’t understand how courts work, just admit it. Trying the misdirection of “lawyers don’t determine science” is one of the boldest tactics you have tried. Of course they don’t. But the lawyers are not representing themselves. Right? Who are the lawyers representing….? They represent big oil,who have theirs own scientists. Do you really think the 5 biggest oils companies on the planet would allow their lawyers to go in and say that if it wasn’t true? The evidence was presented thoroughly to the judge. It was not a surprise to the lawyers representing big oil as they have disclosures pretrial. Their own scientists would have had a chance to review it…. Which of course, they were already familiar with.

you do not understand how lawyers think
they take the path of least resistance and least risk
facts are a secondary consideration

The day big oil admitted it (through their lawyers) I knew the charlatans and pundits profiting off the fossil fuels massive hold on the energy sector were exactly what I always thought.
again what part of this did you not understand

Lawyers for big Oil do not determine science.
Science is determined by experimental results verifying the hypothesis, each and every time

50 years of failed climate predictions is not supportive


Big tobacco…. The lead industry… fossil fuels…. All fought the same battle. Lie and deny for years. “Dam the harm it caused, fuck the people who die…. look at all my money!”
your paranoia and biases are what makes you ignore the fundamental laws of physics
You either get it or you don’t.
and you do not get it
1653238596745.png [/QUOTE]
 
Last edited:

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
Coal production is reaching record highs in places like China and India.


It doesn't matter how often shills for wind and solar power produce numbers that claim it's the better option. No one in the real world believes it.

If politicans are serious about wanting to reduce fossil fuels, the answer is nuclear power. But it ain't cheap.
 

toguy5252

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2009
15,964
6,107
113
Coal production is reaching record highs in places like China and India.


It doesn't matter how often shills for wind and solar power produce numbers that claim it's the better option. No one in the real world believes it.

If politicans are serious about wanting to reduce fossil fuels, the answer is nuclear power. But it ain't cheap.
You and your friends always ignore that fact that green and renewable energy costs will decline over time with scale and you refuse to consider the cost of not addressing the issue. the math is really not that difficult.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frankfooter

Insidious Von

My head is my home
Sep 12, 2007
39,429
7,090
113
Newfoundland is willing to kill off it's fisheries for short term gain. Expect to pay more for seafood.

oil&gas's opening salvo is brought to you by Syncrude - breakfast of champions!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frankfooter

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
13,121
1,909
113
Ghawar
You and your friends always ignore that fact that green and renewable energy costs will decline over time with scale and you refuse to consider the cost of not addressing the issue.
Solar panels and EVs are for the affluent. People across the
world are struggling to make ends meet. There seems to be
no end in sight for Tesla's relentless price hike. Renewable
energy products are a hard sell for majority of people in the world.

the math is really not that difficult.
The market is even less difficult to understand. There is no sign of
the kind of massive investment into phasing out fossil fuel with
renewable energy for electric power generation to be realised
in the near future. The U.S. alone could easily need nearly 100
trillion for complete conversion of power generation to renewable
energy. They will have to elect AOC to the White House just to
get a POTUS audacious enough to ask for that kind of money
from the congress.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts