Russian ruble in free fall

mandrill

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Russia’s economy has avoided collapse so far, but trouble is looming. Here’s why (msn.com)


After Western nations announced their first rounds of economic sanctions in the days after Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24, the Russian ruble lost nearly half its value and stock markets were closed for the first month of the war to avoid a crash.


Two months later, the ruble has largely recovered, becoming the best-performing currency globally in March. Trading also bounced back once the stock markets were reopened last month.

Economists say steps taken by the Kremlin and the Russian Central Bank — raising interest rates to 20 per cent, forcing Russian businesses to exchange 80 per cent of their overseas earnings into rubles — contributed to the recovery.

Russia has also dipped into the half of its estimated $620 billion in foreign currency holdings not invested in the U.S. and Europe — currently frozen by Western sanctions — to protect the ruble and fuel government spending.



Sundstrom says Putin's popularity could drop off "pretty quickly" if domestic discord grows — particularly if the economic situation worsens.

Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin warned on Monday that around 200,000 people are at risk of losing their jobs as Western companies pull out of the capital in protest over the war. He announced $40 million will be spent on helping those workers laid off by foreign firms find temporary employment and new jobs.

The Russian Central Bank's chairwoman, Elvira Nabiullina, sounded even more dire in her reports to Russian lawmakers this week.

Inflation in Russia now stands at 17.6 per cent and is on track to accelerate to 22 per cent this year, while the economy is set to shrink by 9.2 per cent in 2022, according to a poll of economists conducted by the bank in April.


Nabiullina told the Duma, Russia's lower house of parliament, on Thursday that nearly every product made in Russia relies on parts imported from overseas, which have largely been banned amid the sanctions. Bans on Russian exports are also due to be felt as soon as the second quarter of this year, she added.

Plus, she warned that "the period during which the economy can live on reserves is finite." She explained the reserves not frozen by the West are largely invested in gold and Chinese yuan, which can do little to further resuscitate the ruble.

Brander, the UBC economist, said it will take years for Russia's manufacturing sector to find ways to make up for the lack of Western parts and create new supply chains.

"As time goes on, it's going to be harder and harder to produce in Russia," he said.

"My only worry is that (the economic pain) won't accumulate fast enough," he added, pointing to how little impact such shortages will have on the Ukrainian battlefield right now.


The European Union, meanwhile, is mulling how to curb imports of Russian oil, seeking a phased approach in line with the four-month transition away from Russian coal the bloc announced earlier this month.

If approved, it would strike a blow to a revenue stream for Russia currently estimated at over $800 million per day, according to the Belgian economic institute Bruegel.

Sundstrom says the accumulation of these looming catastrophes may very well lead to real impacts on average Russians, threatening Putin's support.

"At a certain point, the rubber is going to hit the road when the government finds itself unable to pay people's pensions, provide parts for manufacturing, all these things that Russians rely on day-to-day," she said.

"What happens after that, we really don't know at this point."
 

Anbarandy

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Apr 27, 2006
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^^^^^^^

The Putin orchestrated 'now you see, now you don't' centrally planned Moskva scuttling is just like the Putin orchestrated ' now you see it, now you don't' centrally planned tanking of the Russian economy which are all part and parcel of Putin's grand master plan.

40million to help 200K zombies scuttled from their factories is just $200 per schmuck.

The GRU needs these 200K fuckwads to help dig the the vast trenches that they are digging and to toss the thousands upon thousands of Ukrainian civilians that they murdered, into.
 

nottyboi

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Your predictions of the Rubles demise are a little off. lol :(Rubles per USD in case you didn't know)


Screenshot 2022-05-06 at 19-33-03 Russian Ruble - 2022 Data - 1996-2021 Historical - 2023 Fore...png
 
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jsanchez

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Apr 8, 2004
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T.O.

oil&gas

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Apr 16, 2002
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Ghawar
Russia has one of the lowest debt/GDP ratio in the world. As far as I am
concerned USD green toilet paper is the world's biggest ponzi scheme.
 
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nottyboi

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Let's see how long the ponzi scheme will last.
What, using their commodities to back their currency? Is that pretty much what every country does? Except the US, which uses other peoples stuff as well as their own.
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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A lot of people thinking this ends with Ukraine, I don't think so.
Notty, listen to the video and then you can debate his economic and financial points with me.

It's more useful than just ranting about how great Putin is. We'll have fun, I promise.
 
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nottyboi

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Notty, listen to the video and then you can debate his economic and financial points with me.

It's more useful than just ranting about how great Putin is. We'll have fun, I promise.
There are many flaws in his analysis. Firstly how long a war are we talking about. 1 year is not a long war. I would say 3 years + is long but we also have to remember that Afghan war went on far longer (both of them). I would personally be very surprised if this goes past the summer in terms of heavy fighting. In terms of costs, Russia has changed its tacitics significanty, from a war of manuver, to one "grinding". This involves using artillery as your primary weapon. You bombard, push the enemy back, as they amass to counter you hit them where possible, and when they attack, you withdraw and bombard them as they occupy the killbox. In terms of economic cost of this, not much as Russia has massive stocks of ammo from the cold war. Probably saves them from having to dispose of this stuff as it gets unstable. Ruble strength allows Russia to print more money, and energy trade with China and 3rd party indirect trade will allow just about all goods (in and out) to flow, but with extra brokerage fees. Russia will take a hit as it Russifys and BRICSifys its economy. 2-3 years. Brain drain is a legit concern and has been for a while, but perhaps if they can enlarge the BRICS and as India and Brazil develop there will bbe less desire to leave Russia. Many of the Western companies that left may still end up operating, we shall see. New enterprises will form and foreign investment will come from BRICS. As for the west the effect he discribes may be about right, but he treats the west as a homogenous bloc, which is wrong. The affects will vary greatly. Canada is a winner, US about neutral, EU and expecially Germany will have a very difficult 10 years ahead. If the EU survives, France will emerge as its leader. This will breed resentment and cause massive tensions in the EU. If it collapses, NATO will replace it as a militray economic bloc dominated by the US. Borrel has already discussed the need to negotiate a new security architecture with Russia after this. The fact is, its become far to dangerous for both Russia and Europe. Weapons have evolved and the whole MAD concept is under attack by this new class of weapons. In essence this is why Russia felt it had to fight this war.
 

Frankfooter

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There are many flaws in his analysis. Firstly how long a war are we talking about. 1 year is not a long war. I would say 3 years + is long but we also have to remember that Afghan war went on far longer (both of them). I would personally be very surprised if this goes past the summer in terms of heavy fighting. In terms of costs, Russia has changed its tacitics significanty, from a war of manuver, to one "grinding". This involves using artillery as your primary weapon. You bombard, push the enemy back, as they amass to counter you hit them where possible, and when they attack, you withdraw and bombard them as they occupy the killbox. In terms of economic cost of this, not much as Russia has massive stocks of ammo from the cold war. Probably saves them from having to dispose of this stuff as it gets unstable. Ruble strength allows Russia to print more money, and energy trade with China and 3rd party indirect trade will allow just about all goods (in and out) to flow, but with extra brokerage fees. Russia will take a hit as it Russifys and BRICSifys its economy. 2-3 years. Brain drain is a legit concern and has been for a while, but perhaps if they can enlarge the BRICS and as India and Brazil develop there will bbe less desire to leave Russia. Many of the Western companies that left may still end up operating, we shall see. New enterprises will form and foreign investment will come from BRICS. As for the west the effect he discribes may be about right, but he treats the west as a homogenous bloc, which is wrong. The affects will vary greatly. Canada is a winner, US about neutral, EU and expecially Germany will have a very difficult 10 years ahead. If the EU survives, France will emerge as its leader. This will breed resentment and cause massive tensions in the EU. If it collapses, NATO will replace it as a militray economic bloc dominated by the US. Borrel has already discussed the need to negotiate a new security architecture with Russia after this. The fact is, its become far to dangerous for both Russia and Europe. Weapons have evolved and the whole MAD concept is under attack by this new class of weapons. In essence this is why Russia felt it had to fight this war.
um..

 

nottyboi

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You just hear what you want to hear. He said mobilizing RESERVES would not help as reserves have older equipment. Kinda how the US National Guard operates. Its also not necessary as Russia has not remotely used the full weight of its core military yet. Mobilizing reserves would mean taking all the weapons parked that are of lower standard and sending them in. As for NATO weapons. Ukraine only has a tiny amount of them. Russia is a political country just like Canada. The goal of this guy, 1) deal with the nonsensical talk about mobilizing reserves 2) justify a shitload more military spending for his employers in the coming years. American defence analysts are squealing about the threat from Russian hypersonics now. Gue$$ what they want?
 
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nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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Russia’s economy has avoided collapse so far, but trouble is looming. Here’s why (msn.com)


After Western nations announced their first rounds of economic sanctions in the days after Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24, the Russian ruble lost nearly half its value and stock markets were closed for the first month of the war to avoid a crash.


Two months later, the ruble has largely recovered, becoming the best-performing currency globally in March. Trading also bounced back once the stock markets were reopened last month.

Economists say steps taken by the Kremlin and the Russian Central Bank — raising interest rates to 20 per cent, forcing Russian businesses to exchange 80 per cent of their overseas earnings into rubles — contributed to the recovery.

Russia has also dipped into the half of its estimated $620 billion in foreign currency holdings not invested in the U.S. and Europe — currently frozen by Western sanctions — to protect the ruble and fuel government spending.



Sundstrom says Putin's popularity could drop off "pretty quickly" if domestic discord grows — particularly if the economic situation worsens.

Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin warned on Monday that around 200,000 people are at risk of losing their jobs as Western companies pull out of the capital in protest over the war. He announced $40 million will be spent on helping those workers laid off by foreign firms find temporary employment and new jobs.

The Russian Central Bank's chairwoman, Elvira Nabiullina, sounded even more dire in her reports to Russian lawmakers this week.

Inflation in Russia now stands at 17.6 per cent and is on track to accelerate to 22 per cent this year, while the economy is set to shrink by 9.2 per cent in 2022, according to a poll of economists conducted by the bank in April.


Nabiullina told the Duma, Russia's lower house of parliament, on Thursday that nearly every product made in Russia relies on parts imported from overseas, which have largely been banned amid the sanctions. Bans on Russian exports are also due to be felt as soon as the second quarter of this year, she added.

Plus, she warned that "the period during which the economy can live on reserves is finite." She explained the reserves not frozen by the West are largely invested in gold and Chinese yuan, which can do little to further resuscitate the ruble.

Brander, the UBC economist, said it will take years for Russia's manufacturing sector to find ways to make up for the lack of Western parts and create new supply chains.

"As time goes on, it's going to be harder and harder to produce in Russia," he said.

"My only worry is that (the economic pain) won't accumulate fast enough," he added, pointing to how little impact such shortages will have on the Ukrainian battlefield right now.


The European Union, meanwhile, is mulling how to curb imports of Russian oil, seeking a phased approach in line with the four-month transition away from Russian coal the bloc announced earlier this month.

If approved, it would strike a blow to a revenue stream for Russia currently estimated at over $800 million per day, according to the Belgian economic institute Bruegel.

Sundstrom says the accumulation of these looming catastrophes may very well lead to real impacts on average Russians, threatening Putin's support.

"At a certain point, the rubber is going to hit the road when the government finds itself unable to pay people's pensions, provide parts for manufacturing, all these things that Russians rely on day-to-day," she said.

"What happens after that, we really don't know at this point."

does not jive with the info you are providing. Rates have fallen to 14%. Do you really think companies are being FORCED to reptriate their money in rubles when the US and EU is out to seize every Russian bank account the can lay its hands on? lol
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
76,860
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does not jive with the info you are providing. Rates have fallen to 14%. Do you really think companies are being FORCED to reptriate their money in rubles when the US and EU is out to seize every Russian bank account the can lay its hands on? lol
Rates in the West are at what, notty?...... 1% right now?

Russia's rates are at 14%. How long is that going to bolster the ruble before it blows up the Russian economy - or what's now left of it?

Leaving aside that Russian corporations and citizens are no longer allowed to sell rubles. And the Russian govt has spent about 40 billion $$$ so far propping the currency up, out of a reserve of about 640 billion $.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
76,860
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You just hear what you want to hear. He said mobilizing RESERVES would not help as reserves have older equipment. Kinda how the US National Guard operates. Its also not necessary as Russia has not remotely used the full weight of its core military yet. Mobilizing reserves would mean taking all the weapons parked that are of lower standard and sending them in. As for NATO weapons. Ukraine only has a tiny amount of them. Russia is a political country just like Canada. The goal of this guy, 1) deal with the nonsensical talk about mobilizing reserves 2) justify a shitload more military spending for his employers in the coming years. American defence analysts are squealing about the threat from Russian hypersonics now. Gue$$ what they want?
The Russian core military is used up, notty. It's big, sure. But a lot of that is border control and internal security and the nuclear deterrent force and the Baltic and Pacific Fleets and other non-usable assets.

NATO will keep supplying Ukraine with 2020 vintage weapons. If the Russians mobilize, the Russians will de-mothball 1980's tech afv's and the Javelins and attack drones will feast as never before.

The hyper sonics are strategic level assets. They don't affect Ukraine, but they are of concern with a permanently hostile and confrontative Russia.
 
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mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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There are many flaws in his analysis. Firstly how long a war are we talking about. 1 year is not a long war. I would say 3 years + is long but we also have to remember that Afghan war went on far longer (both of them). I would personally be very surprised if this goes past the summer in terms of heavy fighting. In terms of costs, Russia has changed its tacitics significanty, from a war of manuver, to one "grinding". This involves using artillery as your primary weapon. You bombard, push the enemy back, as they amass to counter you hit them where possible, and when they attack, you withdraw and bombard them as they occupy the killbox. In terms of economic cost of this, not much as Russia has massive stocks of ammo from the cold war. Probably saves them from having to dispose of this stuff as it gets unstable. Ruble strength allows Russia to print more money, and energy trade with China and 3rd party indirect trade will allow just about all goods (in and out) to flow, but with extra brokerage fees. Russia will take a hit as it Russifys and BRICSifys its economy. 2-3 years. Brain drain is a legit concern and has been for a while, but perhaps if they can enlarge the BRICS and as India and Brazil develop there will bbe less desire to leave Russia. Many of the Western companies that left may still end up operating, we shall see. New enterprises will form and foreign investment will come from BRICS. As for the west the effect he discribes may be about right, but he treats the west as a homogenous bloc, which is wrong. The affects will vary greatly. Canada is a winner, US about neutral, EU and expecially Germany will have a very difficult 10 years ahead. If the EU survives, France will emerge as its leader. This will breed resentment and cause massive tensions in the EU. If it collapses, NATO will replace it as a militray economic bloc dominated by the US. Borrel has already discussed the need to negotiate a new security architecture with Russia after this. The fact is, its become far to dangerous for both Russia and Europe. Weapons have evolved and the whole MAD concept is under attack by this new class of weapons. In essence this is why Russia felt it had to fight this war.
Printing money will work for a couple of years and then the inflation rate, even in a controlled economy will destroy the Russian economy.

BRICS can't absorb the amount of oil that Russia exported to the west, nor does Russia have the existing capital investment, such as pipelines and port facilities to export such large quantities to Asia. And prices are going to tumble because China now knows they are going to be Russia's only major oil export market in future years. So they are going to slash purchases prices down to 50% or less.

Show me some actual analysis that this is what Russia is doing tactically, notty. Because it looks like Ukraine plays exactly the same game you describe a lot more successfully and avoids far more damage than Russia and it's Russia that is going to bleed out.

Those Western companies are not going back to Russia. Russia stole all their stuff. No one is going to go back into Russia now. BRICS won't go back in. First of all, BRICS has a small fraction of the economic strength of the West. And Russia has already shown that it's unstable and steals assets from both foreign companies and its own citizens.

Russia fought this war because it thought it could win it within 3 days and present a fait accompli to the west. Russia has been pushing the line that Ukraine is a non-legitimate state for 10 years and propagandized about re absorbing the Russian-speaking east. It was a hopelessly inept miscalculation by King Idiot Putin. Now he's fucked himself for all time.
 
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Frankfooter

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You just hear what you want to hear.
You say that and then you post...

He said mobilizing RESERVES would not help as reserves have older equipment. Kinda how the US National Guard operates. Its also not necessary as Russia has not remotely used the full weight of its core military yet. Mobilizing reserves would mean taking all the weapons parked that are of lower standard and sending them in. As for NATO weapons. Ukraine only has a tiny amount of them. Russia is a political country just like Canada. The goal of this guy, 1) deal with the nonsensical talk about mobilizing reserves 2) justify a shitload more military spending for his employers in the coming years. American defence analysts are squealing about the threat from Russian hypersonics now. Gue$$ what they want?
There is literally no trustworthy sources for this shite.

Russia has engaged all its trained troops and is now sending conscripts and 'drafted' Ukrainians out as cannon fodder.
 

Robert Mugabe

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Nov 5, 2017
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Printing money will work for a couple of years and then the inflation rate, even in a controlled economy will destroy the Russian economy.

BRICS can't absorb the amount of oil that Russia exported to the west, nor does Russia have the existing capital investment, such as pipelines and port facilities to export such large quantities to Asia. And prices are going to tumble because China now knows they are going to be Russia's only major oil export market in future years. So they are going to slash purchases prices down to 50% or less.

Show me some actual analysis that this is what Russia is doing tactically, notty. Because it looks like Ukraine plays exactly the same game you describe a lot more successfully and avoids far more damage than Russia and it's Russia that is going to bleed out.

Those Western companies are not going back to Russia. Russia stole all their stuff. No one is going to go back into Russia now. BRICS won't go back in. First of all, BRICS has a small fraction of the economic strength of the West. And Russia has already shown that it's unstable and steals assets from both foreign companies and its own citizens.

Russia fought this was because it thought it could win it within 3 days and present a fait accompli to the west. Russia has been pushing the line that Ukraine is a non-legitimate state for 10 years and propagandized about re absorbing the Russian-speaking east. It was a hopelessly inept miscalculation by King Idiot Putin. Now he's fucked himself for all time.
The fact that Putin and the Russians apparently have reached their creative zenith with this shit show a complete lack of intelligence. The popular feeling has been stated everywhere by them that if Russia can't have what it wants, why should we have a planet? This is kind of disturbing. His only option for winning seems to be the nuclear option.
The Germans and the Japanese were just as bad, but they quickly ingratiated themselves back into top dogs. Because they are smart and useful and make great stuff. Russia. Not so much. Given the spoils of WW2 and occupying all those iron curtain countries, they turned them all into a stagnant, impoverished, grey mass prison.
This is the best they can come up with in 2022 for the world.
Russian state TV threatens nuclear strike on UK and warns of radioactive tidal wave - YouTube
 
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nottyboi

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You say that and then you post...



There is literally no trustworthy sources for this shite.

Russia has engaged all its trained troops and is now sending conscripts and 'drafted' Ukrainians out as cannon fodder.
Well I don't see any solid source of info for what you say, and there probably isn't one. So you are just speculating. Most analysis says about 150-200K of Russian forces in total are engaged in this war, if thats is the totality of Russias professional military then perhaps you are right. But most studies have placed that number at around 800K.
 

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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Rates in the West are at what, notty?...... 1% right now?

Russia's rates are at 14%. How long is that going to bolster the ruble before it blows up the Russian economy - or what's now left of it?

Leaving aside that Russian corporations and citizens are no longer allowed to sell rubles. And the Russian govt has spent about 40 billion $$$ so far propping the currency up, out of a reserve of about 640 billion $.
14% is high, but typical in Russia is about 7%. 40B to counter the combine might of all the Western alliance trying to crash you currency? lol, and BTW that is just rubles bought and moved to another account. When this gas for rubles mechanism is in full swing, all those rubles (40B worth) will be exchanged for Euros and Dollars and be back on the FX reserves balance sheet. For now they have been switched to rubles.
 
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