Honest question - women and men roles in Ukraine

NotADcotor

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Mar 8, 2017
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Ukraine is a bit more conservative than we are.
Also as they say, all women are feminists until the bill comes. Feminist equality is a joke, they say they believe it but very few [some] actually do when it counts.
 
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Vera.Reis

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Bone density, muscle mass differences between men and women are not social constructs.

What are you even arguing at this point?
It's amusing when someone makes a holistic argument, and someone focuses on one specific part of that argument instead of considering it holistically :) I mentioned several things women are socialized not to practice, not all of them were about sheer strength, and sheer strength isn't enough to make someone good at combat. One thing I learned in wrestling is technique can often out perform strength, this applies to more than just wrestling. Sheer strength may be supplemented by other things to make women good soldiers, and even better than some men.
 

Vera.Reis

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That’s exactly what implication is: not stating it outright.
I said the exact opposite you just have the reading comprehension of a toddler. You don't even understand what it means for me to say I never implied something hahahaha I'm literally saying I didn't imply it, I didn't say I didn't say it, I said I didn't IMPLY IT. Bruh. But if it helps, I never said it or implied it, you just clearly misunderstood.
 

Valcazar

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Furthermore, given the fact that men of age to be in the military are no longer allowed to leave the country, who do you exactly expect to help the CHILDREN get out of the country.
It is true, however, that the government went to very traditional gender roles in setting up this "every able bodied man" law.
I think that was a mistake, and the fact many women have picked up arms to fight (as they have in every war) shows that.

EDIT: Sorry, should have read the whole thread before replying.
 
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Vera.Reis

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It is true, however, that the government went to very traditional gender roles in setting up this "every able bodied man" law.
I think that was a mistake, and the fact many women have picked up arms to fight (as they have in every war) shows that.
Yes, but the government did that, it wasn't a choice of women, so the insinuation that feminism somehow needs to defend what is going on is erronious. Plenty of women have stayed behind, or returned to turn home, but many even if they want to stay, needed to leave to get the children out because the men couldn't. Plenty of women are taking kids that aren't there's across..

But yea, I think after reading the thread you now know what I was trying to say lol
 
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Valcazar

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Yes, but the government did that, it wasn't a choice of women, so the insinuation that feminism somehow needs to defend what is going on is erronious.
Agree.
I decided to take the early post as badly worded and naive rather than insinuating that "feminism had to answer for its hypocrisy" as a real goal.

I was too optimistic, hence my edit that I should have read the whole thread before posting.

But yea, I think after reading the thread you now know what I was trying to say lol
Yup.
 
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Vera.Reis

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Agree.
I decided to take the early post as badly worded and naive rather than insinuating that "feminism had to answer for its hypocrisy" as a real goal.

I was too optimistic, hence my edit that I should have read the whole thread before posting.



Yup.
I've dealt with too many men playing "devils advocate" around feminism and gender equality to give much benefit of the doubt haha
 

Butler1000

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Ive seen tons of footage of Ukraininan women getting ready to fight, making molotov Cocktails and the like. And agree someone has to get the kids out.

But I'm in disagreement with forced conscription of any kind. It is, a form of slavery, whereby a Government can force labor on the individual, and moreso for them to kill others.

Personally I would stay and fight. In whatever way I could. But it should not be forced on others. And that I was only men demeans as expendable. That is where some men have an issue with this.
 

Vera.Reis

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Ive seen tons of footage of Ukraininan women getting ready to fight, making molotov Cocktails and the like. And agree someone has to get the kids out.

But I'm in disagreement with forced conscription of any kind. It is, a form of slavery, whereby a Government can force labor on the individual, and moreso for them to kill others.

Personally I would stay and fight. In whatever way I could. But it should not be forced on others. And that I was only men demeans as expendable. That is where some men have an issue with this.
Men can have an issue with this, because forced inscription is wrong, without coming after women who have nothing to do with this, because it is the government who is to blame.
 

descartes

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Did you even read this thread? When the country has imposed a law that men ages 18-60 can't leave the country, yes, in those circumstances I do believe it is only the women who can do it, because they are literally the only adults who can leave. Unlike you, the people I'm replying to knew this was a fact in Ukraine right now, and are still questioning why the women are not staying to fight, so yes, it does imply they don't give a fuck about the children, because they think the women should be staying to fight because ~feminism~ instead of taking children to safety.
Again, that's a reach, and an awful thing to say that anyone doesn't "give a fuck" about the safety of children.

The THEORETICAL question I'm trying to get to... perhaps let's not make it about Ukraine... Let's say country X is invaded by country Y. Country X has a limited army and no conscription...

Would YOU as leader of country X, divide the responsibilities of evacuating the children 50/50 between the genders? And would you divide the responsibilities of defending 50/50 between the genders? Straightforward questions, hopefully you will comprehend in those terms. And remember, equality.
 

Vera.Reis

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Again, that's a reach, and an awful thing to say that anyone doesn't "give a fuck" about the safety of children.

The THEORETICAL question I'm trying to get to... perhaps let's not make it about Ukraine... Let's say country X is invaded by country Y. Country X has a limited army and no conscription...

Would YOU as leader of country X, divide the responsibilities of evacuating the children 50/50 between the genders? And would you divide the responsibilities of defending 50/50 between the genders? Straightforward questions, hopefully you will comprehend in those terms. And remember, equality.
I'm old enough and smart enough to know when questions aren't asked in good faith so I'm not playing this game ;-)
 

fictionfactor

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Honest question here, no hate, no thoughtless comments please. It's a question that's been on my mind these past few weeks, but I dare not ask at work, or on socials....

With women and children fleeing Ukraine, the able bodied men are left to defend the country against the Russians. No doubt, whether fleeing or fighting, everyone is at great risk. And for the record, I would have it no other way, with the men staying to fight. This is, however, a very romantic, very traditional view on gender roles.

My question is this. As I am bombarded with International Women's Day and #breakthebias talk this week, how do women (and men) who champion equality reconcile having just the men staying back to fight?

This isn't meant to be a "gotcha" question. I have my own, traditional reasons why, none I imagine to be controversial. I am just curious on how modern women reconcile these differences in today's atmosphere of absolute, unquestioned equality.
its a very true statement....women may want senior roles in the military but when it comes to fighting they leave it to the men. Not fair
 

Jenesis

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That's the most cowardly thing I've read in a very long time.
Wait wait wait!!!!!

So because she refuses to engage in childish conversation, she is a coward???? LOL. Really??? You’re off your rocker there bud.

Having the maturity to walk away is the right move.
 

Jenesis

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You should be as mature, and walk away as well, bud.
Awe pumpkin, did you get upset? Lmao. You call someone a coward and when called out you get your panties all twisted. 😂😂😂😂

You owe me a coffee because that was so hilarious, I spit it out laughing so hard.

Seriously, you should take your own advice booboo.
 
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richaceg

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Furthermore, given the fact that men of age to be in the military are no longer allowed to leave the country, who do you exactly expect to help the CHILDREN get out of the country.
and thats why men and women are not equal. this is not to diss women... there simply are duties that men are more capable and women have theirs that men can not....I would chose to stay and fight and let my SO take care of our kids too...that's just the way it is.
 
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