Do liberals believe in liberty?

[Male4Strapon]

Just one example below

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/17-000-health-care-workers-quebec-vaccination-suspended-1.6191433

Quebec has over 350000 healthcare "workers" including admin staff, cleaning and maintenance etc........ 17000 out of 350000+ is under 5%, so a small percentage completely in line with Frankfooter's stat that you questioned, which had 4% unvaxxed.

 

[jalimon]

The concept of public good seems foreign to right wingers.

Unless their house is on fire.

 

[jcpro]

The concept of public good seems foreign to right wingers.

Oh, how wrong you are. Bridges enable goods and services to cross waters quickly. Paved roads and rail lines move goods quickly in large quantities. Ships, planes- ditto. Fire departments protect properties and other commercial investments. The "public good" often not even financed by the public, benefits the commercial activities above all. The "right wingers" invented the so called public good because it is necessary for commerce.

 

[VIPhunter]

1) 100%. If the Gov’t ever forced anyone to be sterilized, (and oh, I will throw you the bone) vaccinated, I would be against it.

There are exceptions. Sometimes people get crazy, and competent medical professionals need to administer sedatives. Or, sometimes someone is a danger to themselves or others, and needs to be restrained.

Who has the authority to make this decision? We used to lock people up ALL THE FUCKING TIME for mental health reasons. That was changed in the 70s-80s....We've grown as a society and understand that really, medical treatment is a decision that can only be properly left to the individual in all but the most extreme situations (I mean we let people die of exposure because they wish to sleep outside...)

2) 100%. People should be allowed to live there lives without “unnecessary” government t rules. I will say, Liberals are guilty of this one from time to time.

Since we are talking about Pandemic restrictions… I would argue measures taken last year were spot on, and necessary. I think of both the Federal and Provincial governments had spent more money on facilities and bed to treat the sick, many of todays mandates could have been avoided.

Public safety does trumps individual rights. If I came back from Africa having contracted Ebola, it would not be reasonable for me to say “the gov’t don’t have the right to make me quarantine”, and show up at your office to say hi to you. Since we have City, Provincial, Federal, and Global medical professionals all agreeing we are in a Global Pandemic… Certain restrictions were justified. I do not believe it to be a global cabal of elitists taking control.

I don't believe there is some global cabal taking control either. I do believe that as a society we have become so risk adverse that we're willing to sacrifice far too much in the name of perceived safety and security (Thank you 9/11 overreaction). Risk is part of life and it is surely required for progress.

We are required by our benevolent government to seek healthcare ONLY from the sources that they fund and run. It costs us (in Ontario 47% of program spending)....and I'm supposed to put life on hold to protect this giant, unaccountable super ministry, that zI already pay an outrageous tax burden (plus a health care supplement) to support? The system is supposed to serve the citizens, who are the masters. Not the other way around.

I believe the restrictions have been outrageous and practically useless in the long game.

Forced Quarantining those without symptoms is wrong and should be against the Charter (The Quarantine Act brought in by Harper is insane overreach)

3.). You are being vague. I work in transport. If you get in one of my vehicles and assert your right to not be vaccinated or wear a mask, I will politely ask you to exit. I have to follow both Provincial regulations, and keep my drivers safe. Even if this variant is not deadly, my guys can’t miss 14 days of work for quarantine. They have families, and bills to pay.

Is it your transportation vehicle? If so, I'm of the opinion that you can deny service if you see fit.

I already wrote that forced quarantine of healthy people is wrong. The government requirement that your people are off work for so long is again, something that should be eliminated.

Many of the things you talking about are not really rights though.

You should aim your anger in the right direction. The government did not want a pandemic any more than you or I did. I am trying to survive financially too. It sucks. Not JT’s or DF’s fault.

You are correct about that (other than the constant badgering from all levels of government that we were certainly all going to die from Covid.

Our political masters are following the panicked electorate. (Why we've become so afraid of the realities of living on this planet, I'm not sure)

 

[jalimon]

The right wingers believe so much in liberty that:

- they are on a path to destroy democracy to achieve it
- they will oblige young girl have babies against their will
- they are removing books so kids stop learning about the US slaves history
- they believe free speech is without consequences..
- they prefer to endoctrinate people that a school shooting never happened then facing reality

List could go on and on...

 

[ottawa_cuck]

The far left has never bullied anyone.

it was just one example from official sources...there are much more of those. I know some nurses here in Toronto area, who mentioned many didn't want to do the jab but had no choice
or lose the job. In my place of work, not healthcare related, many guys took the jab just to be able to travel freely but wouldn't take it otherwise

 

[jalimon]

Justin Trudeau - Wikipedia

www.liar.com

You should not edit my post in the quoted sections. That is wrong.

And if you think those are lies please take your med. Come back with us John.

 

[silentkisser]

So, you agree then that

1)People should be at liberty to make their own medical choices?

2) People should be able to live their lives without unnecessary government rules and regulations?

3) Citizens should not be demonized, singled out, or provoked for just living their lives, and being themselves? Citizens should also be treated equally under the law, and be given the same benefit of the doubt when standing against the government machine?

Seems like it's not too far a leap of logic (or consistency) to suggest that mandates might just violate a couple of the above.

1) Yes, people are allow to make their own medical choices and live by those consequences. I mean, don't get vaxxed, but don't expect that you can just carry on like everyone else. There is also freedom for people to not get sick by the unvaccinated who are spreading the disease. Now, I know the vaxxed can spread it, but it is significantly less likely.

2) What you call unnecessary rules and regulations are actually designed for protecting the most vulnerable and prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. Why do the unvaccinated feel that they can put people in harms way for no reason? And why do they feel they don't need to mask up?

3) How are people not being treated fairly? Do you think it would be unfair to not allow someone to fly a plane just because they didn't get a pilot's license? I mean, you can't just do anything you want because you feel like it. Again, that isn't government overreach, it's there to protect people.

We are not American. We don't have the same "rights" that they do. Our charter is superior in a number of ways, but it does impose restrictions for the greater good. That means in times of a fucking pandemic, we don't just allow people the right to spread it to any Tom, Dick or Harry. That's why we outlaw hate speech.

 

[mandrill]

Sure. But a classical liberal would never suggest that another citizen has to take said vaccine or loose his/her job.

Sure he would. You think any of those Nineteenth Century factory owner dudes would go to a restaurant where the staff had smallpox or to a high-class bordello where the women clearly had syphilis scars?

Rich, top-hat wearing fucker would have those people fired on the spot.

 

[bl00math]

The Liberals aren't liberal.
The Conservatives don't conserve.
The New Democrats are neither new, nor democratic.

We need new terms to describe modern politics. We can't keep using the same terms we've been using since the 1850s. Canadian politics is getting less Canadian every day.

 

[poker]

"1) Yes, people are allow to make their own medical choices and live by those consequences. I mean, don't get vaxxed, but don't expect that you can just carry on like everyone else. There is also freedom for people to not get sick by the unvaccinated who are spreading the disease. Now, I know the vaxxed can spread it, but it is significantly less likely." - I got infected by a fully vaccinated guy, so that's just fine ? But if I would infect him that is a crime ?

I am fully Vaxxed. I got infected the last day restaurants were open from the table next me. 3 of the 4 had tested positive, but said fuck it, and went out dinner anyway. That should be a crime.

Did the fully Vaxxed person know they had it when they infected you? We’re they supposed to be quarantined?

Gotta love when “New” members show up on a message board with an agenda. Lol. Just here to Troll the Anti-Vaxx propaganda

 

[ottawa_cuck]

They knew they were infected and went to a restaurant anyway. Wow, that would be Cbc dream story!

https://www.cbc.ca/mediacentre/contact

I am fully Vaxxed. I got infected the last day restaurants were open from the table next me. 3 of the 4 had tested positive, but said fuck it, and went out dinner anyway. That should be a crime.

 

[Male4Strapon]

They knew they were infected and went to a restaurant anyway. Wow, that would be Cbc dream story!

https://www.cbc.ca/mediacentre/contact

Being a selfish asshole isn't really newsworthy.

 

[mandrill]

"1) Yes, people are allow to make their own medical choices and live by those consequences. I mean, don't get vaxxed, but don't expect that you can just carry on like everyone else. There is also freedom for people to not get sick by the unvaccinated who are spreading the disease. Now, I know the vaxxed can spread it, but it is significantly less likely." - I got infected by a fully vaccinated guy, so that's just fine ? But if I would infect him that is a crime ?

Since when is it a crime for an unvaxxed person to infect someone else w COVID-19 in Canada?

People might think you're an asshole when dear old Granny Elsie dies in the ICU because you didn't give enough of a shit about her health and safety. But the cops aren't going to put you in jail.

 

[Male4Strapon]

can you read ?

john.dough said:
I got infected by a fully vaccinated guy, so that's just fine ? But if I would infect him that is a crime ?


Mandrill's reading skills seem okay to me.

 

[Male4Strapon]

are you his Dad ? or may be you sit in one cubicle

No relation. We may work in the same office but I wouldn't know since I only know him by his user name but he seems like he'd be a great colleague, comes across as well thought out and logical. There's not enough of that these days.

 

[poker]

It doesn't matter what this guy knew about his condition, he assumed ...thanks for all the propaganda...that nothing going
to happen if he's vaccinated and he infected 3 people including me. Should I beat him into the pavement now ? or assume
may be it's someone else fault, may be those who jabbed him with this crappy chemical

No. You should not beat him into the pavement.

And yes, it does matter.

And vaccines are a god send.

 

[silentkisser]

"1) Yes, people are allow to make their own medical choices and live by those consequences. I mean, don't get vaxxed, but don't expect that you can just carry on like everyone else. There is also freedom for people to not get sick by the unvaccinated who are spreading the disease. Now, I know the vaxxed can spread it, but it is significantly less likely." - I got infected by a fully vaccinated guy, so that's just fine ? But if I would infect him that is a crime ?

Is it a crime? I mean, accidental spreading is not criminal. But if you were coughing in people's faces, then that would definitely be a crime. The point is, for the greater good, people should either be vaxxed and masked (for now) or not engage in risky behaviour. Do you think they would allow someone with potential exposure to ebola to just run around at a restaurant or sporting event? As I said, the consequence of not getting vaxxed (besides a higher change of covid, death or other health issues) is you don't get to go around. Partly to protect you, partly to protect others, and partly to protect our healthcare system.

 

[poker]

the message was - we all should be treating each other equally, regardless of the vaccination status. As you can kill someone who's vaccinated
and vice versa. And decisions related to a person's health are personal and not subject to government control.

The courts disagree with you. Stop being so selfish and get vaccinated please.

 

[poker]

you may believe in the vaccines or not, but what you can't do is to force others into it, and if they refuse, to punish them

Nobody is being punished. Everybody is faced with exact same choice, and the exact same consequences. I made my choice… I am at a bar now enjoying a cold beer. Had I made the choice not to get vaxxed, Then I would be at home.