All people should have Universal Basic Income.

[onomatopoeia]

Again, why I don't support UBI.

Regarding the points I was attributing my own to, I don't believe in welfare for people able to work. I believe in unemployment benefits for those looking for work and have no yet found it.
And I believe in universal education up to the Ph.D level for those whose grades merit it. None of this "no one left behind" horseshit that just drags everyone else down.

Sponsoring 'the best and brightest' yields more dividends than giving a free carton of milk and a banana to every child.

If you're not familiar with it already, read the article on IQ Classification on Wikipedia; the way Intelligence Quotient is determined today is very different than it was fifty years ago. In the past, IQ tests measured an individual's performance vs the test itself, taking into account the test taker's age and the time it took to complete the test, (or the time limit). Today the IQ score is based on an individual's score compared to other people taking the test.

Example: In 1970, on an IQ test with 50 questions, 60% of the test takers get between 22 and 32 correct answers. 27 correct answers would be considered an IQ of 100, 22 would be 90, and 32 110. If an equal number of test takers took the same test today, and the middle 60% answered 19-29 questions correctly, 24 correct would now be considered to be an IQ of 100.

I first noticed this when I had a house guest try a small .exe IQ test that I downloaded from a games website around 2001. He was screwing around on the test, and got 22/50. The app said his IQ was 95.

I believe, on average, people are less intelligent than they used to be, but many of them don't know that, because they are about as intelligent as their age peers. Many modern computer programs seem to be designed for people to have minimum creative input of their own; instead the program does most of the work, and the user is limited to choosing from the options provided. Our schools today seem designed to turn out graduates who will feel lots of self esteem while performing menial, low paying jobs with fancy titles for the majority of their work careers.

My joke, which could be a little too close to the truth:

I think people are less intelligent today than they used to be. I blame in vitro fertilization. All sperm are NOT created equal. I see a huge difference between one that wins a race against tens of millions of competitors, and one that gets a participation trophy for being present when the gun went off.

 

[jeff2]

I'm glad that I won't be around when the people born after Gen X will be on the hook for paying for all the perks the Canadian Government bought on credit on behalf of their ancestors.

Canadians born around 1925 got the best deal:

1) They were a little too young to be drafted into World War II,

2) Many of the men just slightly older than they were were killed or injured in WW2. At the age when they joined the full time job market, the post war economy was booming, and many could and did chose a single employer, for which they worked their entire Career.

3) Interest rates for mortgages and taxes were very low when they were old enough to buy a home.

4) Before computers, businesses did a lot of mathematical work manually, with many more workers needed to perform routine tasks. Well paying blue-collar jobs were also plentiful for those with less education.

5) Most women were at home popping out the Baby Boom generation, so there was less competition for jobs.

5) They might have worked half of their career before the Canada Pension Plan was introduced, but they got full credit for all their Employment years during which they made no contributions.

6) Inflation and wage increases in the 1970's greatly increased the value of their company pensions, often based on number of years worked and highest average salary for X number of years.

7) They were nearing early retirement age when companies started to downsize in the early 1980's.

8) They were often able to retire early, and live many years after their retirement, with increases to human longevity spawned by medical advancement.

9) They were able to provide an even higher standard of living for their children.

My father was born in 1923. He was drafted into World War II, but was injured in boot camp, and saw no action in the European Theater. He did, however, receive generous funding for his University education for being a 'veteran'. He took a job with an Insurance Company straight out of the U of T, and never worked for anyone else. He retired in 1984 at age 61, with indexed company and Canadian pensions.

I was born in 1961. When I was College age, a recession was starting, and interest rates were very high, (20% on my student loan). Companies were starting to downsize, and most of the better jobs were held by Baby Boomers a few years older than I was. Things got progressively worse for many of the people born later than I was. As a perk, I got to be a teen in the 1970's.

I wouldn't want to be twenty now, and have to live another sixty or more years in the world that's coming.

This is right on the mark. I was born at the end of 1965. My dad was born in 1918 and was a world war 2 bomber pilot.

 

[wigglee]

This is such an old fallacy. The vast majority of people want more for themselves than just enough money to pay the bills and rent. It's not like people will be drinking champagne for breakfast on a UBI.

no... but many will smoke a reefer and watch the Beverly Hillbillies or compose their punk rock 2 chord masterpiece entitled "Screwin' the Pooch"

 

[JeanGary Diablo]

no... but many will smoke a reefer and watch the Beverly Hillbillies or compose their punk rock 2 chord masterpiece entitled "Screwin' the Pooch"

Yes, just exactly as they do now. Who cares? That's a teeny tiny minority of people.

 

[Enonymouse]

If you hand people money, what incentive will they have to get a job?

zero.

 

[rhuarc29]

Yes, just exactly as they do now. Who cares? That's a teeny tiny minority of people.

Growing every day. My childhood neighborhood had two such families like that, one right beside my parent's house. Two parents that stayed at home and smoked weed and drank booze, who subsequently taught the four children they pumped out to smoke weed and drink booze, who in turn had more children...you see where this is going? That neighborhood has dozens of families like that now that I'm in my 30s, and driving down that road it's appalling the condition of the yards and houses.

 

[jeff2]

Growing every day. My childhood neighborhood had two such families like that, one right beside my parent's house. Two parents that stayed at home and smoked weed and drank booze, who subsequently taught the four children they pumped out to smoke weed and drink booze, who in turn had more children...you see where this is going? That neighborhood has dozens of families like that now that I'm in my 30s, and driving down that road it's appalling the condition of the yards and houses.

Even if they go straight and get jobs, there has not been a lot of half decent jobs for the unskilled(except government)since the 1980s started. Maybe they could get master's degrees or become underwater welders.

 

[JeanGary Diablo]

Growing every day. My childhood neighborhood had two such families like that, one right beside my parent's house. Two parents that stayed at home and smoked weed and drank booze, who subsequently taught the four children they pumped out to smoke weed and drink booze, who in turn had more children...you see where this is going? That neighborhood has dozens of families like that now that I'm in my 30s, and driving down that road it's appalling the condition of the yards and houses.

Still, it's not everyone or even most people. And shall I assume you're in the US, since you spell neighboUrhood as "neighborhood"?

 

[danmand]

Growing every day. My childhood neighborhood had two such families like that, one right beside my parent's house. Two parents that stayed at home and smoked weed and drank booze, who subsequently taught the four children they pumped out to smoke weed and drink booze, who in turn had more children...you see where this is going? That neighborhood has dozens of families like that now that I'm in my 30s, and driving down that road it's appalling the condition of the yards and houses.

That is what you should expect without a functioning welfare system. Only a welfare system can prevent children from being left behind because of unfit parents.

It is MUCH more cost efficient for society to break the circle.

 

[poker]

zero.

what jobs will we have in 20 years? The rise of A.I. will mean cars and trucks can drive themselves. Drones. Warehouses will be robots in various forms. Right now the robots developed have some issues identifying some packages, but better bar coding will correct that.

Financial services, accounting, Investing can all be done with Apps today. The algorithms of tomorrow will be more accurate and outpace what people can do.

Stores will have self checkouts, if they checkouts at all. Robots already manufacture. Soon they will design too. We will no longer need to outsource to China.

 

[onomatopoeia]

That is what you should expect without a functioning welfare system. Only a welfare system can prevent children from being left behind because of unfit parents.

It is MUCH more cost efficient for society to break the circle.

An education system with a focus on learning marketable rather than social skills can do THAT job better.

If you set a limbo bar at four feet high, just about everyone can go under it, most with no effort. Nothing is achieved because the task is too easy. Spelling and grammar checking programs allow people who are functionally illiterate to produce written work that is beyond their ability, if acting alone. This can give them the skills to be an entry level minimum wage office clerk, without having the skills to develop beyond that.

The group that @rhuarc29 described in post #26 was the first target of the Nazi party in 1930's Germany. They were called Beschwerliches Leben or Unnütze Esser, ("useless eaters"); the people who drain resources, but contribute little in return. I get the impression that current government policies WANT to have a certain percentage of the population in this demographic, because they consume the surplus goods and services produced by the companies that fund political parties.

The next group targeted was the group with low intelligence and high birth rates; many of them were sterilized by order of the Hereditary Health Court. Targeting Jews came much later, and was very much tied to seizing their financial assets to fund military expansion.

I am IN NOW WAY suggesting that Canada adopt these aspects of National Socialism, I merely state that the self interests of individual citizens and the collective interests which best serve society as a whole are sometimes conflicting, and sometimes they evolve over time, and other times they don't. Canada is a bit like the office where there is a snack box with payments made on the honour system. Some people pay for what they eat. Some people take a snack without paying, put another one in their pocket, then eat someone else' lunch that's in the snack room fridge, in a paper bag with the owner's name on it. Canada is one of the nations that welcomes THIS group with open arms, and it's no wonder that some of them come here with the specific goal of profiting personally from a generous social safety net.

Here are some good examples: Uneaten meals from the first class section of VIA Rail trains, or food from Starbucks that is still edible, but past the point at which it can be sold are donated daily to The Good Shepherd mission in Regent Park. They are meant to be consumed immediately. The alternative would be to add them to a landfill, as they no longer have any commercial value. Prescription drugs that are covered by OHIP or other Provincial health plans are effectively purchased in bulk by the government, (the pharmaceutical industry are major contributors to political parties). This promotes the "Health Maintenance" policies that differ from those of a classic Hospital - Hospitals are designed to attempt to cure medical conditions. Health Maintenance Organizations are designed to have patients become dependent on taking prescription medications that alleviate symptoms and slow degradation, but they do not cure any medical conditions. Former opiate addicts are given free methadone forever, or as long as they want it. The smart solution would be to wean the former addicts from methadone over time, but that would be detrimental to the profit ledger of the company that makes methadone.

 

[rhuarc29]

That is what you should expect without a functioning welfare system. Only a welfare system can prevent children from being left behind because of unfit parents.

Our current welfare system perpetuates it. Have another child? Here, have more money! No, we won't ask how you spend it, or make sure you're properly caring for the needs of your new child, that would be insensitive!

There's another guy I knew from school, real problem kid, always getting in fights, including with the school staff. Think he was suspended 4-5 times. Threw a rock through a bus window once, showering a little girl with glass shards.
He's with another girl I know from the same school, and they currently have six kids. SIX! With the cost of living what it is, I can't see how responsible parents can even afford three kids, but these two unemployed parents have six. And young enough to pump out plenty more. I can't imagine that's anything but an abusive household to grow up in, unless the guy changed radically after 18.

My point being, the cost to raise a child responsibly has skyrocketed, and the cost to raise one irresponsibly, abusively, or negligently, is being subsidized. Basic logic tells us that the former behavior is being stymied, and the latter encouraged, which is the opposite of what we want.

 

[rhuarc29]

Still, it's not everyone or even most people. And shall I assume you're in the US, since you spell neighboUrhood as "neighborhood"?

Nah, I'm Canadian, I just work with a lot of Americans.
Even if those people are a minority, the system is set up for that demographic to grow. And at some point it's so damaging, there's no reversing the trend without a whole lot of tragic circumstance.

 

[rhuarc29]

Even if they go straight and get jobs, there has not been a lot of half decent jobs for the unskilled(except government)since the 1980s started. Maybe they could get master's degrees or become underwater welders.

Yep, that's another societal problem we have to fix, largely tied to globalization and technology. The only people truly coming out ahead are the wealthy under the current system. The middle class has a higher standard of living than they did in the 1980s, but they're overworked, overtaxed, and with both parents working aren't raising their kids optimally.

 

[onomatopoeia]

One of my sisters has lived in the United States almost exclusively for almost 50 years. She studied nursing at the University of Alaska during the oil boom there in the early to mid 1970's, and only lived in Canada for about eighteen months after that, a few years later. Her two children were born in the USA, and her husband is American, but because she is a Canadian citizen, she received baby bonus cheques from the Canadian government until her children were eighteen.

Certain ethnic groups frequently sponsor their parents to emigrate to Canada, often to provide in-house daycare for their grandchildren. These elderly people benefit from the free health care provided by Canada, without ever paying any Income Tax from gainful employment. Often they return to their former countries after living in Canada long enough to qualify for a government old age pension, and they can live very comfortably where the cost of living is significantly lower. Meanwhile, elderly Canadians who had low paying jobs during their working years, or didn't work for a company that had a pension plan, are eating cat food or having to get free groceries from food banks. Some ethnic groups say "Canada is a free country", and they interpret that as meaning they can come here to live and eat for free, at someone else' expense. This is the 'dark side' of diversity that the Left likes to sweep under the rug.

 

[|2 /-\ | /|/]

 

[six_pac]

I do not believe in that. I want:

1. Extensive employment support, with short term unemployment benefits and re-education for unemployed workers.
2. Welfare system to ensure that no children are left behind because of unfit parents.
3. Government supplied education to the Ph.D level for everyone capable.

That will accomplish what a guaranteed minimum income will do, and more.

You are describing comunisam, nothing wrong with it, but like any other system humans fuck it up....

 

[six_pac]

One of my sisters has lived in the United States almost exclusively for almost 50 years. She studied nursing at the University of Alaska during the oil boom there in the early to mid 1970's, and only lived in Canada for about eighteen months after that, a few years later. Her two children were born in the USA, and her husband is American, but because she is a Canadian citizen, she received baby bonus cheques from the Canadian government until her children were eighteen.

Certain ethnic groups frequently sponsor their parents to emigrate to Canada, often to provide in-house daycare for their grandchildren. These elderly people benefit from the free health care provided by Canada, without ever paying any Income Tax from gainful employment. Often they return to their former countries after living in Canada long enough to qualify for a government old age pension, and they can live very comfortably where the cost of living is significantly lower. Meanwhile, elderly Canadians who had low paying jobs during their working years, or didn't work for a company that had a pension plan, are eating cat food or having to get free groceries from food banks. Some ethnic groups say "Canada is a free country", and they interpret that as meaning they can come here to live and eat for free, at someone else' expense. This is the 'dark side' of diversity that the Left likes to sweep under the rug.

Old age security only applys for the canadians living in canada, only cpp can be received abroad.... well there is th famous 6 month exception for old age security.

 

[jeff2]

Old age security only applys for the canadians living in canada, only cpp can be received abroad.... well there is th famous 6 month exception for old age security.

Receiving your OAS pension outside of Canada
You can qualify to receive Old Age Security pension payments while living outside of Canada if one if these reasons applies to you:

• you lived in Canada for at least 20 years after turning 18
• you lived and worked in a country that has a social security agreement with Canada. The time you lived or worked in that country and Canada must be at least 20 years

If you do not qualify to receive your Old Age Security pension while outside of Canada, your payments will stop if you are out of the country for more than 6 months after the month you left.

You cannot collect the Guaranteed Income Supplement if you are outside Canada for more than 6 months.

 

[Carvher]

veryone in a society — rich or poor — gets a monthly cheque for the same amount. At the end of the year, the government uses the tax system to balance out the scales and recoup that extra cash from the higher income earners who didn't end up needing it.-sounds good to me

You are only saying that because you don't want to "work" anymore.