I know, but it is a joke that depends on the fake narrative that crime is going up - which it isn't, really.
(Homicides are and that is a real thing that needs to be paid attention to.)
Will There Be Another American Revolution?
- Thread starter oil&gas
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(Homicides are and that is a real thing that needs to be paid attention to.)
We can argue this all day long. I'll keep it short by focusing one major change. When I was younger, we didn't have sanctuary cities. You can twist that for sure. For many, the concept is confusing. They're doing something illegal, but a city says hey we got your back. We won't enforce the law. That doesn't sound like there in the U.S. illegally at all. It's all political word play.
In the past, I'm sure enforcement varied by jurisdiction. We just didn't have these public declarations of "sanctuary" that were broadcasted.
We've been down this very exact topic before and I have presented objective information to you. Frank, there's a very big difference parroting what you read about the world and critically thinking about the world. I even gave you the question to ask to fact check and you ignored me. How is Guatemalan agricultural output trending? And you wonder why people get frustrated with your posts.
The article you posted is the worst form of yellow journalism. Climate change is not fueling the migration crisis in Guatemala. It's a bullshit story.
Your link doesn't prove that climate change is fuelling climate change refugees out of Guatemala.We've been down this very exact topic before and I have presented objective information to you. Frank, there's a very big difference parroting what you read about the world and critically thinking about the world. I even gave you the question to ask to fact check and you ignored me. How is Guatemalan agricultural output trending? And you wonder why people get frustrated with your posts.
The article you posted is the worst form of yellow journalism. Climate change is not fueling the migration crisis in Guatemala. It's a bullshit story.
Its been happening for years, Syria's troubles started with farmers protesting over climate change drought.
Same as it is in Afghanistan.
Same as its causing troubles in Canada.
That's not trying to redefine the meaning of "illegal" though. And if it's being done by a city, that also doesn't sound like it's being done by the "Far Left" - although I'm sure that's how Fox News calls them.
Here's the definition of Sanctuary Cities in Wiki. It appears simply to be a refusal cooperate with ICE because the cities think this leads to greater municipal benefits.
Every time I call you out on something, you can't answer me.
Sanctuary city - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
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Seriously, Wyatt.We've been down this very exact topic before and I have presented objective information to you. Frank, there's a very big difference parroting what you read about the world and critically thinking about the world. I even gave you the question to ask to fact check and you ignored me. How is Guatemalan agricultural output trending? And you wonder why people get frustrated with your posts.
The article you posted is the worst form of yellow journalism. Climate change is not fueling the migration crisis in Guatemala. It's a bullshit story.
I'm going to directly link the two scientific pieces that Franky's NBC piece linked, so you can notice them. The best you did on that is find a very brief chart from the WB that might - perhaps - be interpreted as contradicting Franky's more detailed links, with no further explanation.
Radware Bot Manager Captcha
iopscience.iop.org
You're now expanding your argument rather than admit the article is probably yellow journalism. The very argument of the article was that Guatemalan refugees can't produce enough agriculture output because of climate change. This doesn't should show up in data on agricultural output. In fact, it shows production is climbing.
The reality is the liberal journalists wanted to make some point that tied Guatemalan poverty and climate change. I could smell the bullshit through my computer screen. No one is disputing poverty in Guatemala.
Likely the same thing is happening there to agriculture as is happening here in Ontario. Big agriculture is coming in and buying up land while traditional family farming is being wiped out.
Regardless, agricultural output in some areas doesn't mean other areas aren't being wiped out.
This is absolutely not yellow journalism.
Climate Extremes, Food Insecurity, and Migration in Central America: A Complicated Nexus - Guatemala
Analysis in English on Guatemala and 3 other countries about Agriculture, Climate Change and Environment, Drought, Flood and more; published on 18 Feb 2021 by MPI
Regardless of one's beliefs on the degree and danger of climate change, there is a big, big audience for climate change propaganda and a big desire to write it. Think of the lengths you would go if you believed the world was coming to an end and you could be a part of saving it.Likely the same thing is happening there to agriculture as is happening here in Ontario. Big agriculture is coming in and buying up land while traditional family farming is being wiped out.
Regardless, agricultural output in some areas doesn't mean other areas aren't being wiped out.
This is absolutely not yellow journalism.
Climate Extremes, Food Insecurity, and Migration in Central America: A Complicated Nexus - Guatemala
Analysis in English on Guatemala and 3 other countries about Agriculture, Climate Change and Environment, Drought, Flood and more; published on 18 Feb 2021 by MPIreliefweb.int
If you don't recognize that fear is part of the messaging, then why even have this discourse. You'll just say it's impossible that anyone would exaggerate or make up half truths about climate change.
I found this quote in a Guatemalan climate change/emigration piece. It's actually enlightening because the World Food Programme advisor is downplaying the effects of climate change on emigration.
Marc-Andre Prost, a WFP regional nutrition adviser, told Reuters: “Climate change is not responsible for this situation but it’s definitely exacerbating a situation where people don’t have the capacity to cope.”
This is how I would rank the factors behind the border crisis in recent years. It's a subjective ranking, but I would say chronic poverty is firmly the first and foremost reason.
1) Poverty (This is and has always been the major problem. Attempts to draw in climate change as a major factor amount to manipulation.)
2) Mobility (Smartphone technology gives migrants an easier way to communicate, mobilize and travel long distances.)
3) Drug trafficking (This contributes to political instability, crime and violence.)
4) Climate change (Of course somewhere in Guatemala, someone is not getting the same amount of rain as previous years.)
No, that's just wrong.
Its like arguing that scientists are in it for the money and faked research for the big bucks of research grants while ignoring the billions the oil industry makes and actually spends on the disinformation you eat up continually.
Other than Phil McNasty's expert grandfather, the rest of the world is just noticing the massive changes as we learn about new things we never heard of before.
Bomb storms
bomb cyclones
fire tornadoes
polar vortex
Get out of your basement and look around you for a change.
Its here.
85% of the world is experiencing it, not being an 'audience' for doomer stories.
Scientists estimate 85% of world's population affected by climate change
Over 60,000 studies were crunched by researchers in Germany using machine learning. The findings aren't comforting.
www.cnet.com
I thought we were talking about the non-existent Guatemalan agricultural depression that you believed was caused by climate change because you read some articles on the internet that said so and I was simply trying to explain why journalists and activists would want to jump on the opportunity to make a tangential point.No, that's just wrong.
Its like arguing that scientists are in it for the money and faked research for the big bucks of research grants while ignoring the billions the oil industry makes and actually spends on the disinformation you eat up continually.
Other than Phil McNasty's expert grandfather, the rest of the world is just noticing the massive changes as we learn about new things we never heard of before.
Bomb storms
bomb cyclones
fire tornadoes
polar vortex
Get out of your basement and look around you for a change.
Its here.
85% of the world is experiencing it, not being an 'audience' for doomer stories.
Scientists estimate 85% of world's population affected by climate change
Over 60,000 studies were crunched by researchers in Germany using machine learning. The findings aren't comforting.
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We were talking about your refusal to accept facts that conflict with your confirmation bias, which makes you ignore news because you disagree with it.
So 'articles on the internet' aka 'the news' just won't make it past what you think should really be happening.
But then you claimed that there the news about climate change isn't driven by the actual events in the world like 'bomb storms' but instead the stories are there only because people really, really want to read stories about climate change disasters.
So yeah, you did sidetrack the discussion.
It's just an isolated quote (without any further quotes from this WFP advisor) that offered a tempered view of the effects of climate change. I ignored the article because it was more of the same that has been posted by Frank. Mostly anecdotal and opinionated pieces on the cause of Guatemalan emigration.
It's not really a radical view that Guatemalan emigration is primarily caused by chronic poverty and political instability in the region doesn't help. The articles don't even touch upon the extensive permanent aid missions established in Central America to combat food insecurity.
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Ok..... So you ignored the piece that didn't agree with your pre-formed views?
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Drought and hunger: why thousands of Guatemalans are fleeing north
The threat of famine and the battle for dwindling natural resources are increasingly being recognised as major factors in the exodus
www.theguardian.com
The threat of famine and the battle for dwindling natural resources are increasingly being recognised as major factors in the exodus
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About this content
José García Escobar and Melisa Rabanales in Jocotán
Fri 7 Feb 2020 08.00 GMT
Last modified on Thu 15 Oct 2020 14.19 BST
Martina García grinds just enough maize kernels to make a handful of tortillas which she serves to her children and grandson for breakfast with a sprinkling of salt.
García, 40, must ration the family’s last few sacks of tiny corncobs after drought and prolonged heatwaves linked to the climate emergency devastated crops across Guatemala.
'People are dying': how the climate crisis has sparked an exodus to the US
Read more
As a result, record numbers of subsistence farming families are going hungry: health officials registered more than 15,300 cases of acute malnutrition in children under five last year – up nearly 24% from 2018. It’s the highest number of acute malnutrition cases since 2015, when a severe drought destroyed harvests across Central America.
Rural communities in the Dry Corridor – a region which stretches through Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua – are bearing the brunt, with impoverished indigenous families like García’s in Jocotán, among the hardest hit.
“I’m lucky if I can find pumpkin flowers,” said the emaciated García. “But we mostly just eat tortillas.”
After an irregular rainy season and an unpromising harvest, almost 80% of maize grown in Guatemala’s highland region was lost, according to Oxfam. All that remains for many families are tiny corncobs studded with discoloured grains that look like rotten teeth.
A child plays with a plastic bag in October 2019, where the drought causes dozens of cases of child malnutrition. Photograph: Esteban Biba/EPA
In October 2109, a baby in a nearby community died after not eating for many days. At least 33,000 children need urgent medical treatment due to acute malnutrition, according to Oxfam Guatemala.
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Central America is one of the world’s most dangerous regions outside a warzone, where a toxic mix of violence, poverty and corruption has forced millions to flee north in search of security.
Now, drought, famine and the battle for dwindling natural resources are increasingly being recognized as major factors in the exodus.
And it seems to be getting worse: 2019 was the driest year in a decade with only 65 days of rain, according to Guatemala’s National Institute of Seismology, Volcanology, Meteorology and Hydrology. Guatemala’s subsistence farmers depend on rainfall – which is increasingly erratic – and most lack alternative sources of water.
Around one million Guatemalans – 15% of the population – are currently unable to meet their daily food requirements, according to the World Food Programme (WFP).
Amid the growing threat of famine, almost 265,000 Guatemalans migrants searching for work, safety and food security were detained at the US southern border in 2019 – a 130% increase on the previous fiscal year.
Worsening hunger across the region is a factor in the rise in migrant caravans trying to reach the US overland, according to both analysts and migrants themselves.
View of crops and a forest on a hillside damaged by deforestation, pests and prolonged droughts in the La Ceiba Talquezal village in the municipality of Jocotán in eastern Guatemala. Photograph: Marvin Recinos/AFP/Getty Images
The caravans have been met with repression and hostility by Mexican and American authorities who accuse the migrants and refugees of political subversion and criminality.
Hunger is not a new phenomenon in Guatemala: at least 60% of the population live in poverty, hundreds of thousands rely on food aid, and almost 50% of children suffer stunted physical and cognitive development due to chronic malnourishment.
But experts warn that the additional burden of extreme weather is overwhelming these communities, which have been long ignored and repressed by the government.
Marc-Andre Prost, a WFP regional nutrition adviser, told Reuters: “Climate change is not responsible for this situation but it’s definitely exacerbating a situation where people don’t have the capacity to cope.”
Guatemala’s new president, Alejandro Giammattei, like numerous predecessors, has pledged to make child malnutrition a national priority, but the 2020 budget proposed a decrease of $27m to the ministry of health and a $13m increase for defense. (Congress failed to approve the budget in November, and details of the new budget have not yet been released.)
For García, the situation is desperate: food aid has yet to reach her canton, so once the maize runs out in March, she must find backbreaking work picking coffee – or else risk starvation. There’s no guarantee she’ll even find work, as a leaf-eating fungus known as roya – which thrives in warm conditions – has also devastated coffee crops.
García, who’s weak from chronic hunger, said: “I’ll get paid $4 a day. But if I pick less than 46kg, I won’t get paid.”
… congratulations on being one of o
So you read a heart-rending piece about kids starving to death in a zone of violence, malnutrition, instability and crushing poverty and your takeaway is that you've found an isolated quote that you can take out of context and use to fight with Frankie, because you don't like him.
You're quite the guy, aren't you?
You'd be wrong.
Of course, you'd have to actually read the stories and respond to the facts presented instead of surfing for charts that correlate.
‘So many have gone’: storms and drought drive Guatemalans to the US border
The climate crisis has made life in many villages more precarious, leading some to risk joining an exodus
www.theguardian.com
I have debated this point about the impact of climate change on Central America with Franky.before.
People can make points with heart-rending, emotional appeals. I am simply cynical of the emphasis on climate change. In the political context because that's really the point of this part of the forum, there is not enough support in the U.S. for taking in more Central American refugees. There is a lot of support for aid missions to help with food insecurity. Anyone involved with church groups know there is a lot of private aid in the region. However if you are a journalist or activist who supports Central American immigration to the U.S. (and many do), the climate change argument would appeal to you.
Another factor for Guatemalan emigration to the U.S. is the network effect. We have had a steady increase in Guatemalan emigration for forty years. Many Guatemalans likely know immigrants in the U.S.
