76th Victory Day parade

[Insidious Von]

Hitler was a Big Dummy, he made a massive mistake right from the start. The plan was to partition Russia between Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

An obscure but critically important battle, eventually General Paulus wanted a retreat from Stalingrad knowing he would be over-run by the Siberian Divisions.

 

[Leimonis]

The Soviet Union had a non-aggression pact with Germany, so did the UK remember? They were never on "Germanys side." The level of assistance from the Polish resistance remains controversial. Many say they could have done more. Yes Germany committed a lot of war crimes, as did Russia, but no one has clean hands in WWII. I don't see how the Soviet Union made the war possible, It was always possible. Tthe war was made likely by the WW1 Amistice agreement, some say a certainty.

Russia and Germany attacked Poland in 1939 and split it in half. That’s how Russia made the war possible.

 

[nottyboi]

Russia and Germany attacked Poland in 1939 and split it in half. That’s how Russia made the war possible.

So if Russia refused to agree there would be no war? I highly doubt that.

 

[nottyboi]

Most Canadians miss an important issue: these parades are not cheap and Russia is not a very wealthy country. The amount of money spent each year in Moscow just on avoiding the rain during the parades was an internet joke for many years now. Most Russians would prefer these money spent on social payments instead of parade, but, unfortunately, noone believes in Russian government anymore. You know that Russia spent very little on social payments during COVID despite almost no government debt and huge positive balance in the "Russian national wealth fund and Russian reserve fund". In fact, they even start to increase them recently. But make no mistakes: these funds will never be used to benefit the citizens, it will only be used to pay Putin's friends.

P.S.: there is no reason to talk about what happened 80 years ago: what is happening now is more important. Unfortunately, the internal politics of Russian government is to talk about WW2, not about its economical, political, and freedom problems. Just keep in mind: if you talk about Russia and discuss WW2 instead of current situation - you play their game. If you want to talk about Russia - talk about Navany, Navalny's fund, Ukraine, poisoning, Russian money abroad. This is what is important. WW2 ended 76 years ago and talk about it is just a diversion from the crimes that Putin is committing now.

Military parades don't really cost much because all the elements are already there. All there is is fuel and transport, some money for logistics. Its a deployment exercise anyway. One of the problems with Russia is when the govt hands out money it all gets stolen before the people get it. The Russian govt allocated a lot of money for economic dev but Medvedev was unable to deploy it, which is why he is gone and there is a new guy. The new guy is the former minister of revenue that built one of the most advanced tax collection systems in the world for Russia, so we shall see how he does in this role.

 

[Darts]

Hitler was a Big Dummy, he made a massive mistake right from the start. The plan was to partition Russia between Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

So, that 1939 battle in the Far East and the pact afterwards allowed Russia to focus its war efforts on the western front (Germany's eastern front). Russia and Japan met again in 1945.

 

[Leimonis]

So if Russia refused to agree there would be no war? I highly doubt that.

I guess we will never know. But sure as hell Russia and Germany were big buddies when they fucked Poland over in 1939

Soviet invasion of Poland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[nottyboi]

I guess we will never know. But sure as hell Russia and Germany were big buddies when they fucked Poland over in 1939

Soviet invasion of Poland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 45744
View attachment 45742

So what choice did Russia have? Poland and Russia have been fucking each other for centuaries. Here is a list:

List of armed conflicts involving Poland against Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[fall]

Military parades don't really cost much because all the elements are already there. All there is is fuel and transport, some money for logistics. Its a deployment exercise anyway. One of the problems with Russia is when the govt hands out money it all gets stolen before the people get it. The Russian govt allocated a lot of money for economic dev but Medvedev was unable to deploy it, which is why he is gone and there is a new guy. The new guy is the former minister of revenue that built one of the most advanced tax collection systems in the world for Russia, so we shall see how he does in this role.

You forgot:
Closing half the city
Military spend months preparing for it instead of doing something useful (well, it may not be relevant to Russia where military do not do many useful things)
Transportation costs
Weather control costs (In 2017 $1,300,000 USD was spent just to spike clouds to avoid rain during the parade)
The fact that the budget is 10 times higher then it should be because on;y 10% are actually spend on it, others are diverted to private businesses of people who manage the money (this is how most of the Russian government spending is stolen with full support of all government officials)

So, maybe in Israel parades are cheap, in Russia they are expensive.

 

[nottyboi]

You forgot:
Closing half the city
Military spend months preparing for it instead of doing something useful (well, it may not be relevant to Russia where military do not do many useful things)
Transportation costs
Weather control costs (In 2017 $1,300,000 USD was spent just to spike clouds to avoid rain during the parade)
The fact that the budget is 10 times higher then it should be because on;y 10% are actually spend on it, others are diverted to private businesses of people who manage the money (this is how most of the Russian government spending is stolen with full support of all government officials)

So, maybe in Israel parades are cheap, in Russia they are expensive.

1.3M is a tiny amount of money. Soldiers are much better of praticing for a parade then marching in some camp. Its a HUGE moral booster and a huge honor to get to march at the V Day parade. All the logistics equipment is already there, all the pilots get training anc currency hours that need to be flown anyway. The whole military gets a small logistics exercise to prepare for a secruity emergency in Moscow. Some sections on the route are closed of course but its not that long. Military do not have that many "useful things" to do during peace time. They train and prepare, this is a small part of that. Just like we send the snowbirds and do display flying. the extra cost is really minimal, vs the huge boost to militray morale and public support for the military.

 

[danmand]

Hitler was a Big Dummy, he made a massive mistake right from the start. The plan was to partition Russia between Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

Newer historical research shows that Stalin was preparing to attack Germany and overrun Europe. Hitler started the war preemptively before Stalin was ready.

 

[y2kmark]

Newer historical research shows that Stalin was preparing to attack Germany and overrun Europe. Hitler started the war preemptively before Stalin was ready.

Any authors I should look up? Stalin was worse than Hitler in some ways (is letting people starve to death any better than exterminating them outright?) Certainly easy to envision each of them ready to stab the other in the back...

 

[jcpro]

So what choice did Russia have? Poland and Russia have been fucking each other for centuaries. Here is a list:

List of armed conflicts involving Poland against Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nice thing about the history of WW2 is that it has been very well documented and there are very few blank spots. The point you are arguing is NOT one of them. Hence, I must assume, you are motivated by other things than the historical accuracy. Maybe you should write a book presenting your "findings" and see how it goes under the scholarly scrutiny.

 

[nottyboi]

Nice thing about the history of WW2 is that it has been very well documented and there are very few blank spots. The point you are arguing is NOT one of them. Hence, I must assume, you are motivated by other things than the historical accuracy. Maybe you should write a book presenting your "findings" and see how it goes under the scholarly scrutiny.

Ok I can see you are struggling with the uncomfortable realization that the USSR invading Poland actually saved millions of Polish lives, and I see you have no answer for my questions. I guess its not possible to overcome a lifetime of indoctrination in one thread. Hundreds of thousands of jews were saved by the Soviets actions. I am not saying even that this was intentional, but it happened. None of what I said contradicts any "fact" its only a closer examination of the facts.

 

[jcpro]

Ok I can see you are struggling with the uncomfortable realization that the USSR invading Poland actually saved millions of Polish lives, and I see you have no answer for my questions. I guess its not possible to overcome a lifetime of indoctrination in one thread. Hundreds of thousands of jews were saved by the Soviets actions. I am not saying even that this was intentional, but it happened. None of what I said contradicts any "fact" its only a closer examination of the facts.

And all of that is beside the point that the WWII kicked off in 1939 because of the Russian-German cooperation.

 

[nottyboi]

And all of that is beside the point that the WWII kicked off in 1939 because of the Russian-German cooperation.

Ahh so the invasion of Czechoslovakia was not an act of war then? A friendly invasion lol. And if Russia did not agree then Germany would not have invaded Poland LMAO. So then you believe that Neville Chamberlain's deal was a legit peace agreement. And you believe that Germany would have just scrapped its plans for war and Hitler would have been content with what he had. Enjoy your facts.

 

[nottyboi]

Any authors I should look up? Stalin was worse than Hitler in some ways (is letting people starve to death any better than exterminating them outright?) Certainly easy to envision each of them ready to stab the other in the back...

Tough to choose from those monsters. Perhaps we are luckly it played out as it did. Then there was MAO.. another POS.

 

[jcpro]

Ahh so the invasion of Czechoslovakia was not an act of war then? A friendly invasion lol. And if Russia did not agree then Germany would not have invaded Poland LMAO. So then you believe that Neville Chamberlain's deal was a legit peace agreement. And you believe that Germany would have just scrapped its plans for war and Hitler would have been content with what he had. Enjoy your facts.

Now, you're just being silly. Answer a simplest of questions- why Hitler sealed his and the Germany's faith the moment he agreed to the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact?

 

[nottyboi]

Now, you're just being silly. Answer a simplest of questions- why Hitler sealed his and the Germany's faith the moment he agreed to the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact?

Germanys fate was sealed when Hitler was elected. The Pact had no impact. If the pact was not signed, Germany would have invaded and conqured all of Poland. Its possible the German-Soviet war would have started earlier with very unpredictable outcomes. Hundreds of thousands more Poles (likely millions more) would have been killed.

 

[jcpro]

Germanys fate was sealed when Hitler was elected. The Pact had no impact. If the pact was not signed, Germany would have invaded and conqured all of Poland. Its possible the German-Soviet war would have started earlier with very unpredictable outcomes. Hundreds of thousands more Poles (likely millions more) would have been killed.

Don't know , eh?

 

[nottyboi]

Don't know , eh?

Hitler was not ready to fight the USSR YET, he probably knew war was inevitable between them. He also had no expectation that Poland would be so easy to defeat, and that its army would be so incompetently commanded. His fear was, if the war with Poland went badly, the USSR would take the opportunity to attack and steamroll Germany. By giving them half of Poland he hoped to buy some time while both sides were consolidating their gains. And when Germany had consolidated their gains, they attacked the USSR.

if you have some other theory I am happy to shoot it to pieces.