2020-21 Maple Leafs Thread

[Fun For All]

I think you‘re underestimating Nylander’s value more so than the “haters” on this board, which I don’t believe you’re one of them. Contrary to what Shack believes, I don’t think I’m the only “Nylander haters” that feels Nylander has value in what he brings, i.e. offence which is premium in today’s NHL and what Ottawa sorely lacks.

Nylander doesn’t bring the missing elements for the Leafs to win in the playoffs. The younger Tkachuk still has to prove what he can bring in playoff hockey but it’s safe to assume that he’ll be very effective. The Senators can’t worry about the playoffs until they get in. Nylander on the other hand is a much better player in the regular season and that should help Ottawa getting closer to a playoff spot.

I like Nylander, he's a good player...if I'm Ottawa I'm not trading my best player and major building block for him...what a bad trade that would be for Ottawa, I can't imagine any Ottawa fan supporting that trade.

If Toronto want's Brady Tkachuk they'd have to offer Marner...and I'm not sure Ottawa would make that deal.

Check the numbers out...Nylander has 2 more points than Brady Tkachuk playing with Tavaras and a better power play...Tkachuk is Ottawa's leading scorer, play's balls out and is future captain...

 

[gcostanza]

Participating in Maple Leafs practice today (in regular, not non-contact sweaters),
Wayne Simmonds & Alex Galchenyuk.

 

[superstar_88]

Vesey is gone. No loss there.

 

[John Wick]

Tom Wilson (27 in 10 days)
William Nylander (25 in 6 weeks)
Wilson, a goal every 6.9 games
Nylander, a goal every 3.4 games
Wilson, a point every 2.6 games
Nylander, a point every 1.4 games
Wilson, p.i.m./game = 1.94
Nylander, p.i.m./game = 0.24
Wilson, highest 1 season total, 22G, 44P.
Nylander, highest 1 season total, 31G, 61P (twice).

So, the Maple Leafs should trade a younger, faster, more skilled player and a high draft pick (a 1st? a 2nd?) and a prospect (Nick? Rasmus? Timmy? S.D.A.? Semyon?) for a player 2+ years older, is prone to acts that get him suspended by the NHL, plays a type of game that tends to lead to a steep decline.

This may be the 1st time I've written this on this forum: If Kyle Dubas did this, he should be immediately fired.

But, grit, grinder, amirite?

Tom Wilson is widely considered as one of the best all around RW in the NHL based on the complete nature of his game. He's only two years older than WN, but definitely plays a different game than Willie does. Even so his points production this season is close at 7/10/17 vs. WN at 12/12/24 and he's only played 21 games vs WN's 30gp. Plus he comes cheaper than WN salary-wise at $5.1M vs. $6.9M.

Coming to TML I would expect that although his potential for scoring is a bit less than WN, the real value is in the compete level and what he can do to open up the ice and create chances for the other players on the team who's role is primarily scoring. He certainly brings more playoff experience to the table, and has won a Cup. Will he get injured? Who can say. You might have to roll the dice there, but if he does miss a few games, how is that any more impactful than the frequent games where Willy simply doesn't show up to play? Everyone says TML need another Hyman. There he is.

Wilson is a valuable asset to the CAPS and you wouldn't pry him loose 1:1 with just Nylander on offer, and IMO there aren't any highly probable 'future stars' in the Leafs prospect pool, so what are you really losing if you have to offer one up? If you're Dubas and you really are all in for THIS season, maybe you throw in a 2nd round pick. If you're right and you win it all, it was worth it. If you don't think this is your year, then you don't waste your time doing a WN deal at all right now, and settle for moving some lesser edge pieces around the board and hope the horses you have can at least take you deeper than previous years.

 

[Fun For All]

Tom Wilson is widely considered as one of the best all around RW in the NHL based on the complete nature of his game. He's only two years older than WN, but definitely plays a different game than Willie does. Even so his points production this season is close at 7/10/17 vs. WN at 12/12/24 and he's only played 21 games vs WN's 30gp. Plus he comes cheaper than WN salary-wise at $5.1M vs. $6.9M.

Coming to TML I would expect that although his potential for scoring is a bit less than WN, the real value is in the compete level and what he can do to open up the ice and create chances for the other players on the team who's role is primarily scoring. He certainly brings more playoff experience to the table, and has won a Cup. Will he get injured? Who can say. You might have to roll the dice there, but if he does miss a few games, how is that any more impactful than the frequent games where Willy simply doesn't show up to play? Everyone says TML need another Hyman. There he is.

Wilson is a valuable asset to the CAPS and you wouldn't pry him loose 1:1 with just Nylander on offer, and IMO there aren't any highly probable 'future stars' in the Leafs prospect pool, so what are you really losing if you have to offer one up? If you're Dubas and you really are all in for THIS season, maybe you throw in a 2nd round pick. If you're right and you win it all, it was worth it. If you don't think this is your year, then you don't waste your time doing a WN deal at all right now, and settle for moving some lesser edge pieces around the board and hope the horses you have can at least take you deeper than previous years.

If Wayne Simmonds comes back and plays at a decent level they will have that going for them and won't have to trade anyone.

Tom Wilson is prone to bad penalties and suspensions.

 

[smuddan]

Despite what I said about my concern on Wilson’s high mileage, if he can help bring the cup to Toronto within the next 2-3 years, it would be perfectly acceptable to take whatever decline he may have thereafter.

Would Washington do it though ? Unlike the Senators the Caps pretty much have a playoff spot locked up so they may want to hang on to Wilson for another run. They had won with Wilson so they know what he brings in the playoffs. One reason that they may consider this trade is that Backstrom and Nylander have been quite a dynamic duo in international competition. Reuniting them may be a spark they’re looking for.

 

[Fun For All]

Despite what I said about my concern on Wilson’s high mileage, if he can help bring the cup to Toronto within the next 2-3 years, it would be perfectly acceptable to take whatever decline he may have thereafter.

Would Washington do it though ? Unlike the Senators the Caps pretty much have a playoff spot locked up so they may want to hang on to Wilson for another run. They had won with Wilson so they know what he brings in the playoffs. One reason that they may consider this trade is that Backstrom and Nylander have been quite a dynamic duo in international competition. Reuniting them may be a spark they’re looking for.

Washington is sitting in first place...they don't need the spark.

You're talking Nylander up as such a great acquisition for Ottawa and Washington, if he's that good why are you looking to trade him? Those trades you propose would be terrible for Ottawa and Washington.

 

[smuddan]

Washington is sitting in first place...they don't need the spark.

You're talking Nylander up as such a great acquisition for Ottawa and Washington, if he's that good why are you looking to trade him? Those trades you propose would be terrible for Ottawa and Washington.

The spark I talked about referred to the success Nylander and Backstrom had playing for Sweden and I already said Washington was unlikely to make that trade. Try to read and respond to my post in totality rather than just picking a line to earn points in your argument. I’m only acknowledging Nylander’s strength which is offence and what Ottawa lacks and somewhere there may be a fit for a trade. You may not agree with that and that’s your opinion which like they say, is just another asshole that we all have one. Nylander’s shortcomings are well talked about and that’s the reason why they should trade him for a playoff run, not repeating them by no means talking him up.

 

[Fun For All]

The spark I talked about referred to the success Nylander and Backstrom had playing for Sweden and I already said Washington was unlikely to make that trade. Try to read and respond to my post in totality rather than just picking a line to earn points in your argument. I’m only acknowledging Nylander’s strength which is offence and what Ottawa lacks and somewhere there may be a fit for a trade. You may not agree with that and that’s your opinion which like they say, is just another asshole that we all have one. Nylander’s shortcomings are well talked about and that’s the reason why they should trade him for a playoff run, not repeating them by no means talking him up.

Think about what you're saying, split up the Backstrom-Wilson-Ovechkin line so Nylander and Backstrom can play together...Nylander's strength maybe offence but you seem to think it would be a good deal for Ottawa to trade your leading scorer and best player for him, there is no fit for a trade...what Ottawa lacks is someone that can stop a puck.

Ottawa and Calgary wouldn't trade a Tkachuk for Marner...

Teams are not going to make a bad deal for themselves just to help the Leafs out.

 

[glamphotographer]

Think about what you're saying, split up the Backstrom-Wilson-Ovechkin line so Nylander and Backstrom can play together...Nylander's strength maybe offence but you seem to think it would be a good deal for Ottawa to trade your leading scorer and best player for him, there is no fit for a trade...what Ottawa lacks is someone that can stop a puck.

Ottawa and Calgary wouldn't trade a Tkachuk for Marner...

Teams are not going to make a bad deal for themselves just to help the Leafs out.

Stop giving players to Ottawa, what are we, the farm team for the Sens? LOL!

 

[smuddan]

Think about what you're saying, split up the Backstrom-Wilson-Ovechkin line so Nylander and Backstrom can play together...Nylander's strength maybe offence but you seem to think it would be a good deal for Ottawa to trade your leading scorer and best player for him, there is no fit for a trade...what Ottawa lacks is someone that can stop a puck.

Ottawa and Calgary wouldn't trade a Tkachuk for Marner...

Teams are not going to make a bad deal for themselves just to help the Leafs out.

Ok I give up, my head begins to hurt like banging into a wall trying to argue with you, but

How do you know that “Ottawa and Calgary wouldn’t trade a Tkachuk for Marner” ? Other than your own opinions do you have some inside information ?

 

[Fun For All]

Ok I give up, my head begins to hurt like banging into a wall trying to argue with you, but

How do you know that “Ottawa and Calgary wouldn’t trade a Tkachuk for Marner” ? Other than your own opinions do you have some inside information ?

I'm just giving you a viewpoint if I was the Flames or the Senators..."You want our best forward and are offering your 4th best forward and an AHL player, no thanks."

Maybe they might make a Tkachuk for Marner deal...I wouldn't...Marner makes way too much money just on first thought.

 

[smuddan]

I'm just giving you a viewpoint if I was the Flames or the Senators...

There lies the problem, you express your opinions in absolute terms like you know it all.

 

[Fun For All]

There lies the problem, you express your opinions in absolute terms like you know it all.

I don't know it all, probably more than you.

I believe I think thing's out a lot more thoroughly than you do...what do expect of me, agree with everything you say when I can easily prove it's silly?

There's two sides...you're looking at how great these trade proposals would be for Toronto, and they would be great...look at it from the other side, Ottawa and Calgary would rather have their Tkachuk than Nylander for all the same reasons you would.

 

[smuddan]

I don't know it all, probably more than you.

I believe I think thing's out a lot more thoroughly than you do...

Like you know the difference between an AHL prospect and a NHL prospect ?

Look, I brought it up because there was a conversation going on regarding trade deadline deals and I only mentioned that ” I’d be delighted if....” and I prequalified it by saying that the chances we’re slim, yet you made it sound like I was demanding that trade to happen and talking down on it like it’s the stupidest idea you’ve heard. There’ve been trades made that didn’t make sense to a lot of fans yet they happened because of certain reasons.

 

[Fun For All]

Like you know the difference between an AHL prospect and a NHL prospect ?

Look, I brought it up because there was a conversation going on regarding trade deadline deals and I only mentioned that ” I’d be delighted if....” and I prequalified it by saying that the chances we’re slim, yet you made it sound like I was demanding that trade to happen and talking down on it like it’s the stupidest idea you’ve heard. There’ve been trades made that didn’t make sense to a lot of fans yet they happened because of certain reasons.

I know the difference between an NHL player and an AHL player.

You suggested a trade and I gave you my opinion on it.

 

[smuddan]

I know the difference between an NHL player and an AHL player.

That’s quite an accomplishment you think ? A grade school kid knows that too.

 

[Fun For All]

That’s quite an accomplishment you think ? A grade school kid knows that too.

That’s what Sandin and Robertson are AHL players, Ottawa doesn’t need more of those.

So that’s where you’re going to now...insults...you didn’t take getting schooled very well.

 

[smuddan]

That’s what Sandin and Robertson are AHL players, Ottawa doesn’t need more of those.

So that’s where you’re going to now...insults...you didn’t take getting schooled very well.

Schooled ? No, You didn’t tell me anything that I didn’t already know. You expressed Your options like you were a fly on the wall in the gm’s war room and thought you were so much smarted than everyone else. If telling you that you couldn't differentiate between an AHL prospect and a NHL prospect was an insult then you’ve got a heart of glass and I wouldn’t apologize for breaking it.

 

[Fun For All]

Schooled ? No, You didn’t tell me anything that I didn’t already know. You expressed Your options like you were a fly on the wall in the gm’s war room and thought you were so much smarted than everyone else. If telling you that you couldn't differentiate between an AHL prospect and a NHL prospect was an insult then you’ve got a heart of glass and I wouldn’t apologize for breaking it.

You thinking that anybody talks in terms such as "NHL prospect or AHL prospect" is insulting to yourself...I'm just using common sense, Ottawa is not going to trade their best player in a deal that is sweetened by adding an AHL player, you Leaf fans dream all the the time like that.