Only 22% of Russians believe Navalny poisoned by state

[mandrill]

Except I have not read any Russian corroborations of poisoning and this is not the Dr. who treated Nevalny in emergency. The reuters article I quoted was from the toxicologist and you can see a lot of subtle spin even in that article. Atropine is not just used for Novichok it is used for a lot of situations, you can check. If it was Novichok they suspected (and there is no way to know this instantly or very quickly) then the way Atropine would have been used is VERY different and in massive doses. This guy MAY have treated Nevalny only after he was stabailized by emergency.

Russian doctor who treated Navalny after poisoning has died

The deputy chief physician of the Russian hospital where opposition leader Alexey Navalny was treated immediately after his poisoning "suddenly" died, according to a statement published by the hospital on Thursday.

www.cnn.com

Leonid Volkov, Navalny's chief of staff, confirmed Maximishin was in charge of treating the opposition leader. "Sergey Maximishin was the head of department that treated Alexey Navalny and was in charge of his treatment — specifically his medically induced coma," Volkov told CNN.
"(Maximishim) knew more than anyone else about Alexey's condition so I can't dismiss possibility of foul play," he added.

It wasn't the emergency ward doctor. It was the supervising doctor of the team that assessed him and put him into a coma. So this argument gets you nowhere.

 

[mandrill]

The OPCW identified the toxin as a cholinesterase inhibitor structurally resembling the known Novichok variants, but one that was not included in the list of banned nerve agents updated after the Skripal poisoning in 2018. This implied that the agent used on Navalny was of a more recent, previously unknown type.

Ok so why then does this automatically mean its the Russian State when even the OPCW has not identified the chemical . Also you know where you can get cholinesterase inhibitor? THE DRUG STORE... yes I kid you not. lol

The OPCW identified the chemical. It says so. The chemical simply doesn't have a familiar name to the general public and is a new chemical compound..

Please explain how you can get this chemical at the drug store. Without a prescription? In a lethal dose? The same novel variant as is described in the article?

 

[mandrill]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-politics-navalny-health-idUSKBN25X0MA

he was only give 3mg not a dose you would use for Novichok. To counter novichok: "

To treat exposure to Novichok agents, doctors should immediately start IV atropine, as they would with other organophosphate exposure, administering 2 to 6 mg every 5 to 10 minutes, according to Dr. Chai's article.

Atropine is has many uses.

The Russian doctor who denied that Russian security poisoned Navalny didn't die suddenly a couple of days ago. Join the dots.

 

[mandrill]

The agenda (if you look at the timing) is to put pressure on Germany to cancel Nord Stream 2. Who says the consipracy is airtight? there are holes in it you could drive a truck thorough. It only appears airtight because you are receptive to the argument. They are preaching to the choir and you don't really need to be that convincing.

If Germany wants Nordstream, they'll bite the bullet and get Nordstream. The amount of $ is too large for the fact that Putin killed another opposition figure to have an impact.

How do you explain the other poisonings of Russian dissidents? Innocent accidents? You don't see a pattern here?

 

[Leimonis]

If Germany wants Nordstream, they'll bite the bullet and get Nordstream. The amount of $ is too large for the fact that Putin killed another opposition figure to have an impact.

How do you explain the other poisonings of Russian dissidents? Innocent accidents? You don't see a pattern here?

meanwhile Navalny is now being prosecuted for some fairly minor slandering a military vet on social media in relation to the vet supporting changes in constitution allowing Putin to stay in power indefinitely.

Criminal case opened against Kremlin critic Navalny for slander

Russian authorities said on Monday they had opened a criminal investigation for suspected slander against Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny for comments he made on social media.

www.reuters.com

There is, however, NO slander/defamation charges in relation to Navalny calling Putin personally a murderer "who will be known in history books as "UNDERPANTS POISONER" on live Russian TV, as well as naming 20 or so officers from the murder squad and calling them murderers.
Can this by any chance be because truth is a defence to defamation which may make this trial a bit uncomfortable?

 

[nottyboi]

meanwhile Navalny is now being prosecuted for some fairly minor slandering a military vet on social media in relation to the vet supporting changes in constitution allowing Putin to stay in power indefinitely.

Criminal case opened against Kremlin critic Navalny for slander

Russian authorities said on Monday they had opened a criminal investigation for suspected slander against Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny for comments he made on social media.

www.reuters.com

There is, however, NO slander/defamation charges in relation to Navalny calling Putin personally a murderer "who will be known in history books as "UNDERPANTS POISONER" on live Russian TV, as well as naming 20 or so officers from the murder squad and calling them murderers.
Can this by any chance be because truth is a defence to defamation which may make this trial a bit uncomfortable?

Slander never happens in the west? Dissidents never die in the west? Why is Assange still in jail? Why are 200 people arrested for the capitol protest, why have Proud Boys been designated a terror entity, how many Yellow Shirt in France were killed and maimed by Frech police. What happened to the British Scientist David Kelly? etc etc. You don't think there is an equally massive amount of $ incentive to kill Nord Stream 2? You really think its about "energy security"lol Do you also think killing KXL was about the environment?

 

[nottyboi]

The OPCW identified the chemical. It says so. The chemical simply doesn't have a familiar name to the general public and is a new chemical compound..

Please explain how you can get this chemical at the drug store. Without a prescription? In a lethal dose? The same novel variant as is described in the article?

Can you not read, they could only classify it, not identify it. Do you understand what "previously unknown type" means? It means they have never seen it before, which is very convenient when you don't want to say what it is. A lethal dose of these drugs would just require you to take a weeks or 2 at once, and the symptoms would be pretty much the same as any military chemical weapon and the antidote would be the same. The main difference in the military versions is they are highly concentrated, and transdermal.Of course there are other differences but the killing mechanism is the same. It shuts down your nervous system.

 

[nottyboi]

Russian doctor who treated Navalny after poisoning has died

The deputy chief physician of the Russian hospital where opposition leader Alexey Navalny was treated immediately after his poisoning "suddenly" died, according to a statement published by the hospital on Thursday.

www.cnn.com

Leonid Volkov, Navalny's chief of staff, confirmed Maximishin was in charge of treating the opposition leader. "Sergey Maximishin was the head of department that treated Alexey Navalny and was in charge of his treatment — specifically his medically induced coma," Volkov told CNN.
"(Maximishim) knew more than anyone else about Alexey's condition so I can't dismiss possibility of foul play," he added.

It wasn't the emergency ward doctor. It was the supervising doctor of the team that assessed him and put him into a coma. So this argument gets you nowhere.

You really think Navalnys chief of staff is not part of the program? Its possible they killed him to make the Kremlin look bad. I don't see how it would help the Kremlin to kill this Dr. He was NOT making any noise. No one knew who he was until he died.

 

[mandrill]

There's a lot of conspiracy theory and What-about-ism there. But little else, Notty.

Putin has a track record of killing and injuring people with poison and this seems to be yet another attempt to do the same.

 

[nottyboi]

There's a lot of conspiracy theory and What-about-ism there. But little else, Notty.

Putin has a track record of killing and injuring people with poison and this seems to be yet another attempt to do the same.

Its not a conspiracy, you can see how it is written to try and fudge the gaps to present allegations as hard facts. If it was really Novichok, Nevalny would be dead, if he was alive he would be a destoryed person.
Its very easy to blame Putin, but Navalny is essentially a western spy and in Stalins day he'd have long disappeared. His chief of staff was recorded asking the British for 20M in funding. There are a lot of shady characters in Russia and a lot of powerful and dangerous people. When the USA kills the Iranian defence minister and a bunch of iraqis and pals up with MBS after he has a dissidents dissected in the Saudi embassy, and when the UK has an Austrialian Citizen in jail with NO UK charges and extradition quashed, there is no moral high ground for the West. Especially after 4 years of Trump. Hey you just had the US President incite a mob to attack the legislature and 5 people died. And we are upset that Putin had a guy arrested? ROLL EYES. !!! BTW the Russians informed him he would be arrested when he returned, and look at the timing, just in time for a new President!!! BTW if he had returned on Dec 29th he would NOT have been arrested.

 

[mandrill]

Its not a conspiracy, you can see how it is written to try and fudge the gaps to present allegations as hard facts. If it was really Novichok, Nevalny would be dead, if he was alive he would be a destoryed person.
Its very easy to blame Putin, but Navalny is essentially a western spy and in Stalins day he'd have long disappeared. His chief of staff was recorded asking the British for 20M in funding. There are a lot of shady characters in Russia and a lot of powerful and dangerous people. When the USA kills the Iranian defence minister and a bunch of iraqis and pals up with MBS after he has a dissidents dissected in the Saudi embassy, and when the UK has an Austrialian Citizen in jail with NO UK charges and extradition quashed, there is no moral high ground for the West. Especially after 4 years of Trump. Hey you just had the US President incite a mob to attack the legislature and 5 people died. And we are upset that Putin had a guy arrested? ROLL EYES. !!! BTW the Russians informed him he would be arrested when he returned, and look at the timing, just in time for a new President!!!

When Biden has Fox News commentators novichocked, I'll hate on Biden as well.

In the meantime, I can hate on Putin all I want.

 

[mandrill]

Vladimir Kara-Murza Tailed by Members of FSB Squad Prior to Suspected Poisonings - bellingcat

Open source data reveals that Vladimir Kara-Murza, was followed by a specialist FSB team prior to his suspected poisonings in 2015 and 2017.

www.bellingcat.com

 

[basketcase]

Slander never happens in the west? Dissidents never die in the west? ...

When was the last person (other than in Butler's conspiracy theories about Hillary) that the US or other Western power openly assassinated or tried to assassinate a political opponent? Seems to happen somewhat regularly in Russia.

People in the US get arrested because of the laws (or their flawed enforcement) while in Russia, the laws don't apply to Putin and the other oligarchs.

 

[Leimonis]

Vladimir Kara-Murza Tailed by Members of FSB Squad Prior to Suspected Poisonings - bellingcat

Open source data reveals that Vladimir Kara-Murza, was followed by a specialist FSB team prior to his suspected poisonings in 2015 and 2017.

www.bellingcat.com

imagine now that Russians are likely just as sloppy in their internet war against the west as they are about these poisonings, i.e. fairly sloppy and there is a lot of room for improvement. What if they do improve a little?
Like a half of terb righties have already referred to RT or sputniknews at one point or another. The poison is out there and it reaches its targets.
I would not be surprised if all the cherished views and principles of one of them were completely a result of Russian propaganda, which may sound offending for them but is statistically possible

 

[Frankfooter]

When was the last person (other than in Butler's conspiracy theories about Hillary) that the US or other Western power openly assassinated or tried to assassinate a political opponent? Seems to happen somewhat regularly in Russia.

Soleimani, of course.

 

[basketcase]

Soleimani, of course.

Only you would try to compare a terrorist leader to members of the media or opposition parties.

 

[Frankfooter]

Only you would try to compare a terrorist leader to members of the media or opposition parties.

Only you would criticize something done by Putin and then cheer it when its done by Netanyahu.

 

[basketcase]

Only you would criticize something done by Putin and then cheer it when its done by Netanyahu.

You really are pathetic for many reasons.

1) You once again push your anti-semitic theories that Israel controls the US. Do you really believe Trump had Solemeini killed because Israel ordered him to?

2) Solemeini was a terrorist leader. You sadly attempt to claim Putin having opposition politicians and media members killed is in any way comparable because of your hate-filled agenda.

 

[Frankfooter]

You really are pathetic for many reasons.

1) You once again push your anti-semitic theories that Israel controls the US. Do you really believe Trump had Solemeini killed because Israel ordered him to?

2) Solemeini was a terrorist leader. You sadly attempt to claim Putin having opposition politicians and media members killed is in any way comparable because of your hate-filled agenda.

1) WTF are you talking about? Are you having imaginary dialogs again? Get yourself tested.
2) So is Israel, they've committed way more acts of terrorism, have more UN and UN SC resolutions and are currently occupying parts of 3 countries.

Don't blame me for pointing out your hypocrisy here, basketcase.
You're against assassination except when Trump or Netanyahu do it.
Just don't pretend you have any moral ground on the issue.

 

[danmand]

There's a lot of conspiracy theory and What-about-ism there. But little else, Notty.

Putin has a track record of killing and injuring people with poison and this seems to be yet another attempt to do the same.

Come on. Do you really think Putin would poison somebody, then give him good medical care and send him to Germany for further treatment? Even M16 would not bungle a job that bad.