Federal government faces imminent lawsuit over unlawful confinement of returning Canadian travelers

[squeezer]

I can’t believe that after almost one year, you’re still this gullible.

I can't believe that after almost a year . You're still this dense.

 

[fall]

The quote is from Benjamin Franklin, and it's way, way, way out of context. Which isn't surprising because over the last few decades with the increased emphasis on rights without the acknowledgement of the necessary responsibilities that have to accompany rights, Franklin's words have been abused and twisted to make them say something they didn't actually say. So, a little history.

The actual and full words were in a letter Franklin wrote on behalf of the Pennsylvania General Assembly in 1755: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

It was in the context of a tax dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the Penn family - the descendants of the founders of the Pennsylvania colony. The General Assembly wanted to tax the Penn family lands, which, out of deference to the founding family, they had never done. They wanted the tax money to pay for defence on the colonial frontier against native tribes during the French and Indian Wars. Not surprisingly, the Penn family was opposed to this. They still held great sway in the colony and were able to pressure the colonial governor into repeatedly vetoing the tax bill, which the Assembly would then re-pass, and the Governor would re-veto, etc. etc. At one point, the Penn family tried to end the cycle by offering a voluntary lump sum payment to help fund the militia and construction of forts in exchange for the Assembly dropping the tax bill. They wanted to essentially get the Assembly to give up its position that it had the authority to levy taxes against them. The Assembly refused.

The letter written by Franklin is defending the Assembly's right to tax - the point is that the Assembly (ie, legislature & government) should not give up its freedom to tax in order to gain temporary security through the one time payment the Penns offered for colonial defence. So it's not a defence of the rights of individual citizens against government over-reach; it's defending the rights of the government to raise taxes and pass laws in the interest of the collective security of the people.

To the extent that it would apply to our current situation, the quote defends the right of the government to take measures for the collective well being of the people.

Thank you for the history lesson. Unfortunately, too often this quote could be applied to people's liberty. Take Russia for example. 20 years ago Russian people traded their newly obtained liberty for a bit of financial stability that Putin brought to them. Can you see what Russia become now? To understand how much liberty is important, you should experience the life without it. Canadians and Americans always enjoyed the freedom, so, you think it is OK to give up a bit of it just this time, just because it is needed now. But piece by piece, the freedom will be gone and, after it is gone, the things that you got for giving it up will be taken away too. A more terrifying example when people gave up their freedom for financial stability is Nazi Germany.

As for the COVID situation: education, incentives, lockdown of government services (including schools) is OK. Strict health regulation for businesses is OK. Restricting entry of foreign nationals is OK. Personal freedom (including the freedom of movement within your own country or ability to return to your own country) is something the government should never interfere with.

 

[jetwolf]

Or it's like saying the 0.00018% of the world's population who die in road traffic accidents every year we should not do anything about.

I don't think this analogy helps your argument the way you think.

A lockdown is a drastic measure, akin to, say, banning cars from the road altogether.

The actual rules we have in place for cars are more minimally invasive (e.g. wear a seat belt, obey speed limits). The analogy for covid that would be more like stores and businesses are open but you have to wear a mask.

The lockdown skeptic argument is that our measures should be less drastic and more minimally invasive.

 

[sp free]

I can't believe that after almost a year . You're still this dense.

I’m still waiting for exponential spread, the hospitals to be overrun, and masses of people collapsing on the street.

I know, I know, it’s two weeks away.

 

[squeezer]

I’m still waiting for exponential spread, the hospitals to be overrun, and masses of people collapsing on the street.

I know, I know, it’s two weeks away.

Um, DUH,, use your common sense. WE ARE IN A LOCKDOWN!!! Numbers are going down!!! The government acted!!!!

Lockdowns and if you ever want things to reopen take the damn vaccine when it's your turn. REMEMBER, common sense is not an enemy of the people

 

[squeezer]

Who said that? I posted about freedom and constitutional rights.Where I misinformed you or anyone in this topic? You see COVID everywhere.
MISINFORMATION:
The world most deadliest virus has a 0.0003% death rate of the population now. Call it "world deadliest virus" using big words like (catastrophic, last chance, it kill everyone) are misinformation.

We could stop the virus with this laws! That's a misinformation!

Just to be clear:
I'm not asympthomatic! I'm healthy! I'm not a virus denier but not a brainwashed either!

Serious question. What do you do to protect yourself and others from COVID? I ask since you claim in be red bolded letters you are not a denier.

 

[sp free]

Um, DUH,, use your common sense. WE ARE IN A LOCKDOWN!!! Numbers are going down!!! The government acted!!!!

Lockdowns and if you ever want things to reopen take the damn vaccine when it's your turn. REMEMBER, common sense is not an enemy of the people

So much fail.

 

[doggystyle99]

Here we go again. Anger because I have a different opinion. When you don't have anything to say, you always play this racist, homophobe, right wing, nazi....etc. card. Boring..... Take your medication and go to sleep.

You are a hateful and bigoted person and your posts continually have shown that. Your racist opinions are just that "racist".

 

[doggystyle99]

I don't think this analogy helps your argument the way you think.

A lockdown is a drastic measure, akin to, say, banning cars from the road altogether.

The actual rules we have in place for cars are more minimally invasive (e.g. wear a seat belt, obey speed limits). The analogy for covid that would be more like stores and businesses are open but you have to wear a mask.

The lockdown skeptic argument is that our measures should be less drastic and more minimally invasive.

It absolutely does.
Using the argument that the 2,200,000+ COVID deaths with preventive measures in place only represent 0.0003% of the worlds population and we should not worry about the virus is an assinine argument.

Car accidents deaths worldwide account for 0.002% of the worlds population and every year car manufacturers spend Billions of dollars on R & D to make car safer, governments from around the world spend Billions of dollars to make sure roads are safer and car manufacturers and drivers are abiding by these safety protocols and are aware of it.
Again these things are done because in the western world we like our quality of life, otherwise we'd still be driving without seatbelts on, no airbags, and at the speeds we choose to with a beer in our hand.

Wearing seat belts is minimally invasive and so is putting on a mask, or socially distancing yourself from people, or not congregating with people out of ones household, but unfortunately some "Very Stable Geniuses" keep trying to argue this is violation of their personal liberty and do not abide by it. hence the more drastic measure of lockdowns.
Also main difference between wearing a seat belt and adhering to COVID preventive measures is this.
If one doesn't wear a seat belt and gets into an accident one only kills themselves, if one doesn't adhere to the COVID preventive measures one is putting other people's like at risk.

 

[TeeJay]

Um, DUH,, use your common sense. WE ARE IN A LOCKDOWN!!! Numbers are going down!!! The government acted!!!!

Lockdowns and if you ever want things to reopen take the damn vaccine when it's your turn. REMEMBER, common sense is not an enemy of the people

Its funny the 1984 doublespeak you covidiots use

So according to you:
lockdowns are working because a few chickens sit at home?

Despite daily protests numbering in the thousands walking our streets without masks
Despite tens of thousands gathering at churches in defiance of lockdown orders (Hillier posted pics of over 6000 confirmed maskless people at last weekends service even)
Despite hundreds going store to store deliberately entering stores and defying mask requests
Even according to cellcos they estimate approx 40% are defying orders (compared to last Mar when only 15% were defying)

Have you looked at a park or tobbagan hill in past week? Have you seen the coffee shops? Even the LIBRARY has a lineup if you bother to look (essential my ass)

I walked maskless into a Dairy Queen yesterday (again essential eh)
Oh and the have lineups at Canada Post (most of them look to be returning Amazon merch in my view)


So how can you have this both ways?

There is no lockdown since noone is listening
YET despite a growing majority disregarding Ford and Trudopes suggestions you claim the lockdown is responsible for reducing covid cases?


I would suggest the fact they vaccinated a few thousand carriers had a far more obvious effect than any lockdown did
Coupled with the fact we already killed off 15,000 old people in first wave


We both know you wont respond with any logic or facts but it would be interesting if you tried for once

 

[squeezer]

Its funny the 1984 doublespeak you covidiots use

So according to you:
lockdowns are working because a few chickens sit at home?

Despite daily protests numbering in the thousands walking our streets without masks
Despite tens of thousands gathering at churches in defiance of lockdown orders (Hillier posted pics of over 6000 confirmed maskless people at last weekends service even)
Despite hundreds going store to store deliberately entering stores and defying mask requests
Even according to cellcos they estimate approx 40% are defying orders (compared to last Mar when only 15% were defying)

Have you looked at a park or tobbagan hill in past week? Have you seen the coffee shops? Even the LIBRARY has a lineup if you bother to look (essential my ass)

I walked maskless into a Dairy Queen yesterday (again essential eh)
Oh and the have lineups at Canada Post (most of them look to be returning Amazon merch in my view)


So how can you have this both ways?

There is no lockdown since noone is listening
YET despite a growing majority disregarding Ford and Trudopes suggestions you claim the lockdown is responsible for reducing covid cases?


I would suggest the fact they vaccinated a few thousand carriers had a far more obvious effect than any lockdown did
Coupled with the fact we already killed off 15,000 old people in first wave


We both know you wont respond with any logic or facts but it would be interesting if you tried for once

Facts, reality and common sense eludes you. You live in a world of bullshit and nonsense, therefore you deserve to be responded to in one fashion as originally posted by Fun For All.


"FALSE AND MISLEADING INFORMATION"

# BULLSHIT # NONSENSE #MISINFORMATION

 

[IRIS]

Serious question. What do you do to protect yourself and others from COVID? I ask since you claim in be red bolded letters you are not a denier.

I use only half amount of saliva for blowjob than I used before ( except if a risk-taker requested more. That's call the free choice). As you see it works. No client complaining about any virus . I hope your sexlife is beautiful too, in 3 masks and doggy-style only!

 

[squeezer]

I use only half amount of saliva for blowjob than I used before ( except if a risk-taker requested more. That's call the free choice). As you see it works. No client complaining about any virus . I hope your sexlife is beautiful too, in 3 masks and doggy-style only!
View attachment 32326

I saw you many years ago. Your blowjob wasn't bad, not that I haven't had better but nonetheless, it wasn't bad and your answer although shows you think COVID is a hoax, it is funny.

 

[Uniforms Please]

Who said that? I posted about freedom and constitutional rights.Where I misinformed you or anyone in this topic? You see COVID everywhere.
MISINFORMATION:
The world most deadliest virus has a 0.0003% death rate of the population now. Call it "world deadliest virus" using big words like (catastrophic, last chance, it kill everyone) are misinformation.

We could stop the virus with this laws! That's a misinformation!

Just to be clear:
I'm not asympthomatic! I'm healthy! I'm not a virus denier but not a brainwashed either!

Everyone can have freedom right up until they infringe on the freedom of others. If traveling to Mexico/Caribbean is so important to you in the middle of a pandemic, you should expect to fined heavily and be required to quarantined upon return. We need this pandemic over and to get the economy and business back operating. People need to stop being selfish for their own petty interest. Obviously you do not care or have not experienced financial hardship, mental or health issues or the past 9 months. Consider yourself one of the lucky few.

 

[fall]

Thankfully, I haven't had the experience. But I have a friend who grew up in Ukraine in the Soviet Union (mostly under Brezhnev) before coming to Canada in the mid 80's. She's appalled at the arguments being made against the current public health measures on the basis of defending "freedom."


I think sometimes we all have to make sacrifices for the sake of the greater good. But unlike many I'm open to contrary opinions and so my real plea to you is to make your own arguments because if the only way you can support your arguments is by taking someone else's argument out of context and making it say something he didn't say, then your own argument must be pretty weak.


The slippery slope argument is a weak argument made primarily by people who can't find better arguments.


Although there had been a fair bit of freedom in Germany during the Weimar Republic, there was actually no history or tradition of freedom in Germany. Germany (especially Prussia, which was the heart of the German state) had traditionally been a fairly authoritarian society without much democratic tradition. The rise of Hitler and the Nazis was at one and the same time both a simple and complex process, but it was driven by the desire of many Germans at the time to return to an authoritarian type of rule after the relative political and economic chaos that had always afflicted the Weimar Republic. Germans were ripe for a "strongman" to take control of things. It was also a yearning for a return to German greatness, which Hitler appealed to by his promise to "free" Germany from the restrictions imposed by the Treaty of Versailles. Sorry, but to sum up the rise of Nazism in 9 words ("when people gave up their freedom for financial stability") is ridiculous.


That's an ideological position on your part, which is quite valid. It's a variant of libertarianism. Whether it stands up to legal scrutiny is something the courts may have to decide.

It is never easy to balance individuals rights with the rights of society as a whole - because the two aren't always in agreement. The historical parallel would be the pandemic of 1918-1920, in which many of the same restrictions were put in place by government, and many of the same arguments against the restrictions were made. Once the pandemic was over, life went largely back to normal in spite of all the fears. Why? Because it's hard to erase the now centuries long ongoing development of the western concept of human rights. Few countries with long traditions of "freedom" as we understand the word have ever given those freedoms up. Why? Because, for all the fear that "we'll never get back to normal" human society is remarkably resilient.

Thank you. While we may disagree in the weight of each individual measure, I appreciate your point of view. The problem with your friend, who left Soviet Union before it collapsed, he lived without freedom and got it freedom back. He never experienced losing the freedom that happened in Russia in the last 20 years. And losing freedom when you are used to does not worth the free food you get along the way.

Yes, I am more of a libertarian, but in a sense that the government should educate but not interfere in people's life. Explain, encourage,provide incentives, explain again. I believe most people are good people and, when properly informed, will follow the rules, but full information about how these specific rules can help and why they are the best rules should be given. When the government wants to quarantine all people on arrival in a special facilities but, at the same time, the public transportation still works, grocery stores are open (and not restricted to pick-up only), and opening of the schools are discussed - one will wonder why such strange policy choice. The government fails to inform and educate, fails to show all research, it provides only a part of the relevant information - this government has no rights to tell people what to do.

 

[IRIS]

I saw you many years ago. Your blowjob wasn't bad, not that I haven't had better but nonetheless, it wasn't bad and your answer although shows you think COVID is a hoax, it is funny.

It's not a HOAX but far not that dangerous as the media and our politicans try to suggest.

Everyone can have freedom right up until they infringe on the freedom of others. If traveling to Mexico/Caribbean is so important to you in the middle of a pandemic, you should expect to fined heavily and be required to quarantined upon return. We need this pandemic over and to get the economy and business back operating. People need to stop being selfish for their own petty interest. Obviously you do not care or have not experienced financial hardship, mental or health issues or the past 9 months. Consider yourself one of the lucky few.

I didn't say I want to go to the caribbean area. I don't know where you read it. I didn't leave the country since the pandemic started. I am exercising, learning , walking with my puppy, take my time and erased everyone from my life who pessimistic with negative thoughts. I grow up a country where the life were much worse than you ever imagined. So this Canadian tragedy what make lots of people sick, not affect me the same way as those who born here and never see empty shells in the food store, or die almost in the line for a kilo orange. If you obey all the rules you will miss all the fun!

 

[squeezer]

It's not a HOAX but far not that dangerous as the media and our politicans try to suggest.
If you obey all the rules you will miss all the fun!

So a mask in public and social distancing are rules that ruins all your fun?

Hmmm, how do you feel about not being able to peek through windows at night?

 

[Malibuk]

Transport Minister Omar Alghabra has warned that Canada’s new travel restrictions could kick in as early as Thursday next week.
In an interview with Rosemary Barton Live on January 31, per CBC News, the federal official urged travellers to be prepared for new rules to come into place as of February 4, 2021.
While he was unable to reveal the exact start date for the new protocol, which includes mandatory quarantine at government-approved hotels, Alghabra said Canadians should be “ready for it as soon as possible."
More specifically, he suggested being prepared for the restrictions to start as of February 4.

 

[fall]

It's not a HOAX but far not that dangerous as the media and our politicans try to suggest.

I didn't say I want to go to the caribbean area. I don't know where you read it. I didn't leave the country since the pandemic started. I am exercising, learning , walking with my puppy, take my time and erased everyone from my life who pessimistic with negative thoughts. I grow up a country where the life were much worse than you ever imagined. So this Canadian tragedy what make lots of people sick, not affect me the same way as those who born here and never see empty shells in the food store, or die almost in the line for a kilo orange. If you obey all the rules you will miss all the fun!

Iris, how old are you? The empty shelves in Russia ended 30 years ago and were replace by empty wallets and freedom. Then people traded their freedom to put a bit of money in in their wallets 20 years ago (note that these amounts were less than the welfare in Canada). Now they have neither money nor freedom.

 

[IRIS]

Iris, how old are you? The empty shelves in Russia ended 30 years ago and were replace by empty wallets and freedom. Then people traded their freedom to put a bit of money in in their wallets 20 years ago (note that these amounts were less than the welfare in Canada). Now they have neither money nor freedom.

Never ask a lady how old she is really. You can read my SP age on my site. That's all. Old enough to remember the Caeusescu era and my grandma told lots of stories about disappeared people, just because they said something wrong against the dictator or just because they were Hungarians or for no reason. Unfortunately the same is starting in Canada. Everything is checked. Facebook, Twitter....etc. I have a fuck....ing bet, the big brother read our words here always. We are on the way to a Chinese style government . They just take small things from you first unlawfully, but when you don't do anything against it, they will take more and more. It will become worster every week. Today maybe other people but tomorrow it will be you. Maybe you don't believe me, but the History repeat itself always. Dark ages are coming and you cherish for them. It's a shame.