The Trial of Derek Chauvin

[Darts]

Three more question for the audience. Let's assume legal proceeding will take place in Minnesota.

1) Why isn't C out on bail? Is he considered too much of a menace to society? Is he a flight risk?

2) What exactly is 3rd degree murder and manslaughter under Minnesota law?

3) Does C have a choice of jury or judge only?

 

[mandrill]

1. I don't think defence are allowed their own autopsy. They can cross examine the coroner. DA must prove beyond a reasonable doubt and so any doubt goes to the defence.

2. Civilian videos are allowed if the person who took them testifies.

3. I don't think he's had his bail hearing yet. It can take a while in a murder case. It's tough to get bail in a murder case, more the exception than the rule.

4. I extracted a definition of 3rd degree murder in the other thread.

5. He would in Canada. Not sure about MN.

 

[The Oracle]

1. I don't think defence are allowed their own autopsy. They can cross examine the coroner. DA must prove beyond a reasonable doubt and so any doubt goes to the defence.

2. Civilian videos are allowed if the person who took them testifies.

3. I don't think he's had his bail hearing yet. It can take a while in a murder case. It's tough to get bail in a murder case, more the exception than the rule.

4. I extracted a definition of 3rd degree murder in the other thread.

5. He would in Canada. Not sure about MN.

Counsellor if you were C and given the choice what would you pick? Judge or Jury?

 

[xmontrealer]

Three more question for the audience. Let's assume legal proceeding will take place in Minnesota.

1) Why isn't C out on bail? Is he considered too much of a menace to society? Is he a flight risk?

2) What exactly is 3rd degree murder and manslaughter under Minnesota law?

3) Does C have a choice of jury or judge only?

Bail was set a couple of days ago at $500,000, from what I read. Even if he can come up with whatever money is required, do you think he really wants to be out of safe custody and back in public?

 

[black booty lover]

I enjoy these threads exchanges where everyone is sticking to facts and speculating honestly and not name calling. Onya everyone.

.

I swear to god if there was a TERB award for nicest guy and most gentlemanly you get the award(s) hands down....lol.

 

[kherg007]

Counsellor if you were C and given the choice what would you pick? Judge or Jury?

Here is the USA logic. If guilty, get a jury trial. If innocent, waive that right and do a judge trial.

The logic is you stand a much better chance to bamboozle one or more of a group of 12 citizen-peers, than to bamboozle a judge who knows all the tricks of the trade, so to speak. Thus if innocent a judge will see through any of the prosecution shenanigans, and less likely to react on emotion.

 

[kherg007]

I swear to god if there was a TERB award for nicest guy and most gentlemanly you get the award(s) hands down....lol.

Aww thanks BBL. And if there was an award for the best handle that also causes me to become aroused, it's you lol. But you're also fun to yabber with.

 

[kherg007]

Three more question for the audience. Let's assume legal proceeding will take place in Minnesota.

1) Why isn't C out on bail? Is he considered too much of a menace to society? Is he a flight risk?

2) What exactly is 3rd degree murder and manslaughter under Minnesota law?

3) Does C have a choice of jury or judge only?

1) bail usually gotta come up with 10% cash or some asset that meets the bail (e.g. your home). But there are state by state variations. So maybe he just hasn't got the funds yet. Or they might have to wait until the arraignment. More lawyerly types would know this.
2). In MN 3rd degree means you don't have to prove any planning or intent to kill. I think in MN 1st degree is premeditated murder or the murder of a cop ...2nd degree also means you intended to kill but not premeditated. Thus choosing third degree means the prosecution does not have to prove C had intent to kill.
3). One can waive their right to a jury trial in US of A.

 

[mandrill]

Autopsy Finds George Floyd's Death Due To 'Homicide By Asphyxia'
The independent autopsy was conducted at the request of Floyd's family.

An independent autopsy on George Floyd conducted at the request of his family has concluded his cause of death was “homicide caused by asphyxia due to neck and back compression that led to a lack of blood flow to the brain.”

The report by Dr. Michael Baden and Dr. Allecia Wilson concluded Floyd likely died at the scene. Baden formerly worked as New York City’s chief medical examiner and conducted the autopsy of Eric Garner, a Black man who was put in a fatal chokehold by police in 2014.

Floyd, 46, died last week after a Minneapolis police officer knelt on his neck for nearly nine minutes. Video of the arrest shows Floyd repeatedly telling the officer he couldn’t breathe.

The doctors found that weight on Floyd’s back from other officers, handcuffs and his positioning all also contributed to his death by impairing the proper function of his diaphragm.

“What we found is consistent with what people saw,” Dr. Baden said in an emailed release. “There is no other health issue that could cause or contribute to the death. Police have this false impression that if you can talk, you can breathe. That’s not true.”

The new report contradicts preliminary results from the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office, which said in a criminal complaint against officer Derek Chauvin that “no physical findings” supported “a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation.”

Chauvin, the officer who knelt on Floyd’s neck, was taken into custody last Friday by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension and has been charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter, Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman said. The police were responding to a call of Floyd having used a counterfeit $20 bill.

Outrage over Floyd’s death has sparked a wave of protests across the country, some of them violent. Family attorney Ben Crump ended his statement on the autopsy results with an appeal for calm.

“We understand the righteous anger we see playing out on streets across the country,” Crump said. “We support the activism and energy of the people who want to make sure we achieve change, and we hope those efforts continue, but looting and violence are absolutely unacceptable.”

“They were unacceptable to George, and they must be unacceptable to us,” he said. “The way to honor George is to achieve justice. As a country, we need to take a deep breath. George Floyd wasn’t allowed that, but we must.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry...sphyxia_n_5ed551bcc5b6dbec8578c330?ri18n=true

 

[mandrill]

1) bail usually gotta come up with 10% cash or some asset that meets the bail (e.g. your home). But there are state by state variations. So maybe he just hasn't got the funds yet. Or they might have to wait until the arraignment. More lawyerly types would know this.
2). In MN 3rd degree means you don't have to prove any planning or intent to kill. I think in MN 1st degree is premeditated murder or the murder of a cop ...2nd degree also means you intended to kill but not premeditated. Thus choosing third degree means the prosecution does not have to prove C had intent to kill.
3). One can waive their right to a jury trial in US of A.

Bail is usually refused for any murder charge.

There can be exceptions with a heavy surety.

 

[kherg007]

Now we gotta see what the county ME/coroner comes up w vs the victim's family's ME for cause of death. But the private ME report does not help the defence.

 

[mandrill]

Now we gotta see what the county ME/coroner comes up w vs the victim's family's ME for cause of death. But the private ME report does not help the defence.

Not at all.

Plea bargain time. DA will want a lot of years.

 

[Valcazar]

1. I don't think defence are allowed their own autopsy. They can cross examine the coroner. DA must prove beyond a reasonable doubt and so any doubt goes to the defence.

I can't find any reason they couldn't bring in an expert witness as part of that cross examination. It may well be they can't though. It is unclear to me.

Neither has released a full report though, so the two may not conflict as much as is being first reported.

2. Civilian videos are allowed if the person who took them testifies.

I'm not even sure they need to testify. That probably helps establish the validity of the evidence but I don't think it is absolutely necessary.

3. I don't think he's had his bail hearing yet. It can take a while in a murder case. It's tough to get bail in a murder case, more the exception than the rule.

$500,000 bond from what I have seen reported but I don't know how solid that reporting is.

5. He would in Canada. Not sure about MN.

Seems like you *can* but mostly if you are pleasing guilty. There does seem to be some weird edge cases, though.

https://casetext.com/rule/minnesota...trial/rule-2601-trial-by-jury-or-by-the-court

 

[The Oracle]

Autopsy Finds George Floyd's Death Due To 'Homicide By Asphyxia'
The independent autopsy was conducted at the request of Floyd's family.

An independent autopsy on George Floyd conducted at the request of his family has concluded his cause of death was “homicide caused by asphyxia due to neck and back compression that led to a lack of blood flow to the brain.”

The report by Dr. Michael Baden and Dr. Allecia Wilson concluded Floyd likely died at the scene. Baden formerly worked as New York City’s chief medical examiner and conducted the autopsy of Eric Garner, a Black man who was put in a fatal chokehold by police in 2014.

Floyd, 46, died last week after a Minneapolis police officer knelt on his neck for nearly nine minutes. Video of the arrest shows Floyd repeatedly telling the officer he couldn’t breathe.

The doctors found that weight on Floyd’s back from other officers, handcuffs and his positioning all also contributed to his death by impairing the proper function of his diaphragm.

“What we found is consistent with what people saw,” Dr. Baden said in an emailed release. “There is no other health issue that could cause or contribute to the death. Police have this false impression that if you can talk, you can breathe. That’s not true.”

The new report contradicts preliminary results from the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office, which said in a criminal complaint against officer Derek Chauvin that “no physical findings” supported “a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation.”

Chauvin, the officer who knelt on Floyd’s neck, was taken into custody last Friday by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension and has been charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter, Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman said. The police were responding to a call of Floyd having used a counterfeit $20 bill.

Outrage over Floyd’s death has sparked a wave of protests across the country, some of them violent. Family attorney Ben Crump ended his statement on the autopsy results with an appeal for calm.

“We understand the righteous anger we see playing out on streets across the country,” Crump said. “We support the activism and energy of the people who want to make sure we achieve change, and we hope those efforts continue, but looting and violence are absolutely unacceptable.”

“They were unacceptable to George, and they must be unacceptable to us,” he said. “The way to honor George is to achieve justice. As a country, we need to take a deep breath. George Floyd wasn’t allowed that, but we must.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry...sphyxia_n_5ed551bcc5b6dbec8578c330?ri18n=true

I would think that the road to a more serious charge being laid has now been forged. Also to a conviction.

This of course assumes that this finding is corroborated by the ME/Coroner.

If it isn't what then?

 

[mandrill]

 

[kherg007]

Well there ya go. But see also fentanyl and meth. I'm sure defence will find some expert witness to say that caused the death...or introduce enough doubt...which is all they have to do.

Noticed his C's wife filed for divorce a couple of days ago. She'll get everything. Then when he gets sued in civil court he'll have no assets. Knew a case like that man arrested for threatening others and wife divorces cuz she can see where it might go but they still functioned as hubby-wife. Not sure if that would play in Canada.

 

[TeeJay]

Even I think it was a bit much
Having said that

1- he was resisting arrest (you can see them fighting him to try and put him in back of car; he claims he was "claustrophobic")
2- he appears to have already been in medical distress (even store clerk before cops came said he was "drunk"; I am betting coroner comes back with heart and stroke issues)

The issue is (imo) the cop went too long / too far
I am unsure if they can prove murder since he likely would have died even if cop never showed up, but the lack of regard for life by the cop is going to seriously hurt the defence

Counsellor if you were C and given the choice what would you pick? Judge or Jury?

Jury
Always Jury

Only time I would ever go judge route is a guilty with explanation type plea

 

[TeeJay]

Only charged with 3rd degree Murder

 

[mandrill]

Well there ya go. But see also fentanyl and meth. I'm sure defence will find some expert witness to say that caused the death...or introduce enough doubt...which is all they have to do.

Noticed his C's wife filed for divorce a couple of days ago. She'll get everything. Then when he gets sued in civil court he'll have no assets. Knew a case like that man arrested for threatening others and wife divorces cuz she can see where it might go but they still functioned as hubby-wife. Not sure if that would play in Canada.

It's such an obvious ploy, I'm sure even an American judge would figure it out.

A Canadian judge would laugh it out of court

 

[basketcase]

I don't think so. ....

White cop, black victim statistically turns out well for the cop.

In this case, there is so much video we've already seen plus all the bodycam and dash cams. This will make the actual events pretty clear and not debatable. from a purely legal point of view, I would expect the case to come down to how justifiable Chauvin's actions were and to what extent his unjustifiable actions led to the death.

From a non-legal standpoint, even if the guy had a heart condition that caused a heart attack, standing on his neck for several minutes after he stopped breathing is inexcusable.