Besides a location I'd imagine the start up capital would be pretty low.ShowBizz, he literally quoted one of my tweets, hence me "taking it personally".
The biggest thing needed to start a good agency would be solid people willing to risk a lot law-wise.. Managing an agency and profiting off it puts you very much at risk for being charged with some of the more serious sex work laws.. A lot of people aren't willing to put themselves in that position unfortunately!
Personally I would love to build an agency up, but would need partners and sponsors for that! I loved working in Ottawa for an agency, those were the golden days
What Happened tp the Ottawa Scene?
- Thread starter Dodd2016
- Start date
Very good points made by all.
There are certain aspects of this that will never change.
Men crave (variety) in sexual partners. Even if we find a "favorite", we still want to try someone new.
The consumer in us wants a fair price. I think we have all seen prices go up, as well as restrictions going up (or being extra charge).
Service providers want to make money. I get it. We all want more money, but your "customers" are most likely not getting the "raises" in their pay at the same rate you are raising yours.
Fakes a-plenty. Thank goodness for this forum, where we can investigate and warn each other about the fakes and/or dangerous providers.
There are many more factors that are at play here, but suffice it to say that it is a complex combination that determines if a customer ultimately chooses to go see a provider.
For me, lately - I almost have a debate with myself every time --- trying to figure out if I "really" want to spend (all that money) on a half-hour fling - or just use my right hand and spend (all that money) on something more rewarding or "tangible".
I can tell you that my right hand has been winning most of the debates lately.
One last thing. If I am going to pay (highly) for an encounter - it had better be a good experience that leaves an awesome impression in my mind (afterwards).
All too often, you will pay a high price, only to get a wham-bam-in-and-out-the-door type of service. There is no consistency between price paid and the quality of the services rendered.
If anyone else is like me, and is holding onto his money for the "best option", then this means less money is going to SPs, which means a decline in demand for these services, resulting in fewer SPs in business, as there are not enough customers. A vicious circle for sure.
What is the best price for services ?
That is a debate for a different thread, perhaps, but in my opinion, it is (not) the rates that I have been seeing on leolist over the last while - which tend to be over-priced and under-delivered - (in general, of course).
One issue with rates is that they are published online - for all to see - (although I don't see any other way to do it, mind you).
Therefore, let's say that "the best of the best" publishes a high rate (because maybe they deserve to charge a premium, as they are SOOO good).
The end result is that all the "other" providers see that online posted rate, too - and will interpret it as being the "new-normal" rate to charge for a given appointment duration - regardless of the actual quality of service that they, in fact, provide.
Now, the customers are expected to pay higher rates for absolutely everyone.
Obviously, this does not help the situation, as there is no differentiation between price and quality.
I do agree that seeing an escort is a luxury.
The problem is that if you pay for luxury, you should be guaranteed to receive something luxurious in return.
90% of the time, (as the content of this whole review board should make abundantly obvious) - customers do not receive anything even remotely "close" to luxury.
Once, twice, or more "burned" - a customer will absolutely hold onto their money more tightly, and increase their scrutiny to find a provider that will actually deliver on the agreed-upon expectations that are being fully paid-for.
I can count on one hand (no, not my right hand), the amount of truly memorable experiences I have had - as they were awesome, and still leave me smiling as I remember them.
As I have said before, the best providers out there are good people with giving hearts, combined with a personality which truly enjoys pleasing others.
(Some of them actually participate on this board, and you can tell by their interactions that they are special).
There are certain aspects of this that will never change.
Men crave (variety) in sexual partners. Even if we find a "favorite", we still want to try someone new.
The consumer in us wants a fair price. I think we have all seen prices go up, as well as restrictions going up (or being extra charge).
Service providers want to make money. I get it. We all want more money, but your "customers" are most likely not getting the "raises" in their pay at the same rate you are raising yours.
Fakes a-plenty. Thank goodness for this forum, where we can investigate and warn each other about the fakes and/or dangerous providers.
There are many more factors that are at play here, but suffice it to say that it is a complex combination that determines if a customer ultimately chooses to go see a provider.
For me, lately - I almost have a debate with myself every time --- trying to figure out if I "really" want to spend (all that money) on a half-hour fling - or just use my right hand and spend (all that money) on something more rewarding or "tangible".
I can tell you that my right hand has been winning most of the debates lately.
One last thing. If I am going to pay (highly) for an encounter - it had better be a good experience that leaves an awesome impression in my mind (afterwards).
All too often, you will pay a high price, only to get a wham-bam-in-and-out-the-door type of service. There is no consistency between price paid and the quality of the services rendered.
If anyone else is like me, and is holding onto his money for the "best option", then this means less money is going to SPs, which means a decline in demand for these services, resulting in fewer SPs in business, as there are not enough customers. A vicious circle for sure.
What is the best price for services ?
That is a debate for a different thread, perhaps, but in my opinion, it is (not) the rates that I have been seeing on leolist over the last while - which tend to be over-priced and under-delivered - (in general, of course).
One issue with rates is that they are published online - for all to see - (although I don't see any other way to do it, mind you).
Therefore, let's say that "the best of the best" publishes a high rate (because maybe they deserve to charge a premium, as they are SOOO good).
The end result is that all the "other" providers see that online posted rate, too - and will interpret it as being the "new-normal" rate to charge for a given appointment duration - regardless of the actual quality of service that they, in fact, provide.
Now, the customers are expected to pay higher rates for absolutely everyone.
Obviously, this does not help the situation, as there is no differentiation between price and quality.
I do agree that seeing an escort is a luxury.
The problem is that if you pay for luxury, you should be guaranteed to receive something luxurious in return.
90% of the time, (as the content of this whole review board should make abundantly obvious) - customers do not receive anything even remotely "close" to luxury.
Once, twice, or more "burned" - a customer will absolutely hold onto their money more tightly, and increase their scrutiny to find a provider that will actually deliver on the agreed-upon expectations that are being fully paid-for.
I can count on one hand (no, not my right hand), the amount of truly memorable experiences I have had - as they were awesome, and still leave me smiling as I remember them.
As I have said before, the best providers out there are good people with giving hearts, combined with a personality which truly enjoys pleasing others.
(Some of them actually participate on this board, and you can tell by their interactions that they are special).
I've gotta say this made me laugh my ass off. Young, fit, and conventionally attractive girls are obviously going to be the most popular. When you are too busy as an SP you raise your rates, that's just good business. You can't expect to see the most commonly sought after girls for a low rate, they charge what they charge not because of quality of service but because of demand. Perhaps you're the one who should lower your expectations if you're looking to pay less. As for screening, many terbites seem to be a lost cause. Screening is only going to become more popular as the police in Ottawa don't take us seriously when we are hurt. If we can't use a reference from another escort, which is anonymous, to see if you are a safe client then we simply move on. No money is worth the risk in safety for me and I would love to hear an alternative for screening that would still keep us safe.
Wishing you luck on your search for a young fit hottie with rock bottom rates who is always available and who isn't being exploited by a pimp
what is an acceptable rate to you people! first I see complaints for girls charging over 300, which I guess is fair enough but those are clearly luxury rates for girls who are in high demand. now 260 is too much? I get whiners at 240 as well. 200 is the lower end of what I see advertised before you start getting into sketchy territory. if you're already paying hundreds of dollars for sex what difference does 20-60 dollars make? seeing an escort isn't a human right, it's a treat and a luxury!!
It's hard to evaluate rates without also considering what is offered at a particular rate. Lady A might offer a completely different overall experience when compared to lady B, even though their rates might be identical. I think it's fair to say that most SPs in Ottawa fall in the range of $200-$250/hour although there are some higher and some lower as well. In another thread I put together a list of local SPs and most are in that range.
It's true that $20-$60 really isn't significant if you see providers infrequently. However, I suspect many clients calculate the difference based on how often they visit providers. For example, a client who sees one lady per week might see that difference as 1K to 3K/year, which can be more significant.
No question seeing an escort isn't a human right. I do think that clients generally consider the impulse to visit a provider as more of a basic need than providers do. To be clear, I am not at all suggesting this should have any impact on rates. I'm sure an entire thread could be written on this topic...
I just do not think that clients should feel entitled to cheap sex. Seeing an escort is a privilege and luxury. If you want a cheap date use tinder but if you want to de a pro then I dont see why 20-60 dollars makes a difference. I've had all kinds of clients and trust me, there are guys who will save their money to see a specific provider because they feel it's worth it.
What other safety precautions can escorts take besides screening? If I am assaulted at work how can I seek justice? How can SWs share bad date information when clients are obsessed with anonymity and using text apps? Hiring security is both highly illegal and frowned upon by clients as they dont want a man in the vicinity.
What other safety precautions can escorts take besides screening? If I am assaulted at work how can I seek justice? How can SWs share bad date information when clients are obsessed with anonymity and using text apps? Hiring security is both highly illegal and frowned upon by clients as they dont want a man in the vicinity.
Definitely agree. From your knowledge of the Ottawa scene, what rates do you think the majority of local SPs consider fair and appropriate?
Can't speak for everyone but I mind my own business and don't focus on what other girls are charging. If they're making money at that rate then they're happy, if they arent then they'll change their business model, the market works these things out.
I couldn’t agree more. It’s one thing to say a fee is not in your budget and another to say it’s unfair. Is the price of Raptors tickets fair? An Opus One? Not really, but people save up for these treats because they value them. Fair is whatever a SW wants to offer services for and people run successful businesses at both $200 & $400.
I worked a higher volume, lower fee business initially to learn, establish myself & develop my niche but I have to say that, although many were wonderful, I also had my worst clients when my rate was lower. It just seemed to attract those who wanted more for less. For myself, moving up a price point was not just about earning more, although that’s important too, but about accessing more respectful clients who can truly afford to see a provider and also being treated with greater respect in general. More resources means I can devote more of myself to improving Ruby and having the energy for those who truly deserve it.
In terms of what has happened to the market since BP went down, my own perception was that clients decreased, many switched to text apps which then empowered all kinds of bad behaviour and then more spas opened and also increased the roster of MAs working each shift. As a result providers left and stopped touring here. Over and above that Twitter has taken off for advertising & LL became overpriced and flooded with fakes, so many don’t use it as much.
Now things are shifting again, fees do seem to be moving up due to natural market forces & just regular cost of living increases. I would not describe this as ruining Ottawa though any more than having expensive restaurants ruins a city. Don’t we want thriving industries? To attract talent? For more incalls, more touring here, more good vibes all around?
Most providers spend a lot of time researching & contemplating fee structures & I wish there was greater respect for our business acumen. We don’t just pull these numbers out of hats! When I look at MA fees of $180 & $200, it only makes sense to me that full service should be at least $80 or $100 more. Another old school rule of thumb is to compare escort fees to lawyers fees in a given city. Here in Ottawa that’s at least $300-$350/hr. And established lawyers are more.
I’m not sure where this arbitrary $250 hr number comes from but there are great providers on either side of it with just different business models. I would appreciate if there was less pressure on SWs to reduce fees and standards to match the few it doesn’t suit. Just book someone within your budget and be supportive of SWs being happy & successful. And maybe show more appreciation to those whose fees are a little less by booking ahead, following screening, showing up on time, following other policies like hygiene & not pushing boundaries. Remember that we live in a country where you can still see a SW for less than $500USD and without being arrested. Be happy, muah!
For me, lately - I almost have a debate with myself every time --- trying to figure out if I "really" want to spend (all that money) on a half-hour fling - or just use my right hand and spend (all that money) on something more rewarding or "tangible".
I can tell you that my right hand has been winning most of the debates lately.
When few flings per month will get you a lease on a luxury car, you start wondering if it is really worth it.
I can tell you that my right hand has been winning most of the debates lately.
When few flings per month will get you a lease on a luxury car, you start wondering if it is really worth it.
Haha. That is the exact same debate that I have, with the exact same result.
Fling (with a very high risk) or one of a thousand other more permanent things. If the cost was lower, the result would be different.
Respect is a two way street.
Enquiring about the rates and services, when I have encountered rates higher than I can / am willing to pay, my usual line to the provider is, "Thank you, but too dear for me". Then I get called all sorts of nasty names. This is from the providers that are charging more than the 220hr or 250hr average range, and me not haggling in any way.
Where's the respect in that?
Wow. Well stated Kay! This kind of calm cool temperament is what I prefer. You can disagree with someone without having to completely hijack threads. And I’m not speaking about SPs.
Guys, you’re taking things too seriously if you have to go tit (hahaha) for tat with a poster on a message board. Just let it go!
Guys, you’re taking things too seriously if you have to go tit (hahaha) for tat with a poster on a message board. Just let it go!
Spot on. That's why I only entertain it when I have time. Gotta treat them animals nice sometime tho.
A thankless job I must say but someone's gotta do it.
My handle on here hasn’t changed to match me new name, but I’ll start my response by clarifying that my name is Kaia Sophia. I am one of the earliest members of OIC and rarely comment on here. But gods help me here I am.
Before contributing to this thread I would like to ask that if you’re going to criticize or critique OIC then at the very least be honest about what you’re saying and why. If you were denied entry to OIC it is either because of a refusal to adhere to our very liberal codes of conduct (summed up: don’t be bigoted towards potential clients or other providers,) or proof of you causing harm in the community/ there being someone in the collective who would feel unsafe with your inclusion- at which point it is on you to mend bridges and reapply at a later date. Not having a website is not something that will result in your membership application being denied. We have members at every price point and members who don’t have websites, or professional photos, or social media. I don’t know what your ‘difference of opinion’ was but if you were denied entry it’s definitely not as simple as you’re implying. Nice try though.
We don’t charge for “services,” but like many collectives we have membership dues that are used to cover our expenses: the emergency fund (that any member can access) and our operating costs (like our website where any member who wants to be listed is listed.)
We are decidedly not an agency (that is kind of one of the fundamental aspects of what OIC is) and OIC was created before Nat conceived, so whatever you’re trying to suggest there about Nat and her profiting off of the collective, and her time on maternity leave...... *shrug*
As for transparency- there is complete transparency within the collective. We are accountable - to our membership.
I would suggest that the fact that there are board members who choose to only see OIC members is simply a product of the fact that every single member of OIC is vetted and when applying either already knew at least one existing member personally or met with one of our elected committee members. We don’t guarantee services since every single member is self-managed, but everyone is real and expected to conduct themselves respectfully and professionally.
As for drama, I can’t say I’m bothered by it completely. It gets exhausting seeing some of the toxic nonsense some more active members post on here. Some of us engage because frankly it gets annoying sitting by and watching some of the more active members spouting dangerous filth. (I will never ever ever forget that sugaring thread where people were suggesting and encouraging specifically seeking out women in poorer areas outside of the city because they would be easier to haggle down, not because of a limited budget on their part but due to the lack of options and higher vulnerability of said women....) And sometimes engaging is a good way to purge some of that frustration that has nowhere else to go. (Also watching them try to justify objectively problematic things can be entertaining.) A lot of members here don’t like being held accountable for what they say and do. Tough shit. Act right (read: don’t be an ass) or get called out.
I almost never engage on here but come on... you don’t want to screen (because your anonymity is apparently more important than our physical safety,) you don’t want to pay rates you deem too high (by some misguided belief that your personal budget is the only relevant standard,) you want Kim Kardashian or Gigi Hadid offering an exhaustive menu while being constantly accessible and having no screening and having below average rates (because obviously the only successful business model is super-high volume at low rates with no screening and no service limits,) you equate GFE with a checklist instead of the overall vibe and feeling... and you’re surprised that you’re being regularly disappointed with your encounters?
There are amazing providers at every price point, and providers who’s screening practices span the entire spectrum of nothing at all to real-world info only, but seeing providers is a luxury- and by that I mean a non-essential service - so instead of trying to bully people into the box of what you personally deem worthwhile and acceptable, go see someone who meets your criteria and stop complaining that your options are limited within the rigid box of acceptable business practices you’re focused on.
I would also remind those of you who seem to have forgotten that your personal budget is not representative of everyone who sees providers, your screening preferences are not the same as all other potential clients, your needing to have everything on a checklist ticked off to be satisfied is not the criteria that all clients use to gauge the value of an encounter. Clients come in all forms and are not limited to (or completely represented by) the most active members of this board.
If you want more variety, more frequently, but on a limited budget - work with what is available to you and stop complaining about things that are either not your choice (rates/screening,) or the product of the lack of respect show by you and your cohorts (lack of touring providers and i expect lack of agencies.)
Not directly related to OP’s concerns but this thread gave me a headache. I try to live my life with a “do no harm, but take no shit” mentality... I am tired of the crap I see on here way too often.
End of rant. May all the love and kindness you show others return to you tenfold.
Before contributing to this thread I would like to ask that if you’re going to criticize or critique OIC then at the very least be honest about what you’re saying and why. If you were denied entry to OIC it is either because of a refusal to adhere to our very liberal codes of conduct (summed up: don’t be bigoted towards potential clients or other providers,) or proof of you causing harm in the community/ there being someone in the collective who would feel unsafe with your inclusion- at which point it is on you to mend bridges and reapply at a later date. Not having a website is not something that will result in your membership application being denied. We have members at every price point and members who don’t have websites, or professional photos, or social media. I don’t know what your ‘difference of opinion’ was but if you were denied entry it’s definitely not as simple as you’re implying. Nice try though.
We don’t charge for “services,” but like many collectives we have membership dues that are used to cover our expenses: the emergency fund (that any member can access) and our operating costs (like our website where any member who wants to be listed is listed.)
We are decidedly not an agency (that is kind of one of the fundamental aspects of what OIC is) and OIC was created before Nat conceived, so whatever you’re trying to suggest there about Nat and her profiting off of the collective, and her time on maternity leave...... *shrug*
As for transparency- there is complete transparency within the collective. We are accountable - to our membership.
I would suggest that the fact that there are board members who choose to only see OIC members is simply a product of the fact that every single member of OIC is vetted and when applying either already knew at least one existing member personally or met with one of our elected committee members. We don’t guarantee services since every single member is self-managed, but everyone is real and expected to conduct themselves respectfully and professionally.
As for drama, I can’t say I’m bothered by it completely. It gets exhausting seeing some of the toxic nonsense some more active members post on here. Some of us engage because frankly it gets annoying sitting by and watching some of the more active members spouting dangerous filth. (I will never ever ever forget that sugaring thread where people were suggesting and encouraging specifically seeking out women in poorer areas outside of the city because they would be easier to haggle down, not because of a limited budget on their part but due to the lack of options and higher vulnerability of said women....) And sometimes engaging is a good way to purge some of that frustration that has nowhere else to go. (Also watching them try to justify objectively problematic things can be entertaining.) A lot of members here don’t like being held accountable for what they say and do. Tough shit. Act right (read: don’t be an ass) or get called out.
I almost never engage on here but come on... you don’t want to screen (because your anonymity is apparently more important than our physical safety,) you don’t want to pay rates you deem too high (by some misguided belief that your personal budget is the only relevant standard,) you want Kim Kardashian or Gigi Hadid offering an exhaustive menu while being constantly accessible and having no screening and having below average rates (because obviously the only successful business model is super-high volume at low rates with no screening and no service limits,) you equate GFE with a checklist instead of the overall vibe and feeling... and you’re surprised that you’re being regularly disappointed with your encounters?
There are amazing providers at every price point, and providers who’s screening practices span the entire spectrum of nothing at all to real-world info only, but seeing providers is a luxury- and by that I mean a non-essential service - so instead of trying to bully people into the box of what you personally deem worthwhile and acceptable, go see someone who meets your criteria and stop complaining that your options are limited within the rigid box of acceptable business practices you’re focused on.
I would also remind those of you who seem to have forgotten that your personal budget is not representative of everyone who sees providers, your screening preferences are not the same as all other potential clients, your needing to have everything on a checklist ticked off to be satisfied is not the criteria that all clients use to gauge the value of an encounter. Clients come in all forms and are not limited to (or completely represented by) the most active members of this board.
If you want more variety, more frequently, but on a limited budget - work with what is available to you and stop complaining about things that are either not your choice (rates/screening,) or the product of the lack of respect show by you and your cohorts (lack of touring providers and i expect lack of agencies.)
Not directly related to OP’s concerns but this thread gave me a headache. I try to live my life with a “do no harm, but take no shit” mentality... I am tired of the crap I see on here way too often.
End of rant. May all the love and kindness you show others return to you tenfold.
This is the answer ladies and gentlemen. The original topic question is what happened to the Ottawa Scene? This is it. Drama.
I'm a simple man (not intellectually but in terms of lifestyle). The arguing back and forth just kills my raging boner. I get not every letting someone get over on you, but on the internet? Most people on line are nuts, and most of the rest feel empowered behind the safety of their keyboard. So calling out liar seems, fruitless.
Anyways, I get how things go on message boards and my message will get wash away by the waves of whats "more intense". So I'll end it now by saying I'm a dude that has worked extremely hard to have disposable income even with a young family, and I'm sick and tired of strip clubs. Thought SP's was the way to go but when I read some of the threads and responses, the disdain that some Ottawa ladies have for some of the clients they see. I'm just at a loss here.
CleoP/Kaia Sophia - I saw you way back in the day and have no issues with you. My rant is more about the current state of the scene in Ottawa.
I'm a simple man (not intellectually but in terms of lifestyle). The arguing back and forth just kills my raging boner. I get not every letting someone get over on you, but on the internet? Most people on line are nuts, and most of the rest feel empowered behind the safety of their keyboard. So calling out liar seems, fruitless.
Anyways, I get how things go on message boards and my message will get wash away by the waves of whats "more intense". So I'll end it now by saying I'm a dude that has worked extremely hard to have disposable income even with a young family, and I'm sick and tired of strip clubs. Thought SP's was the way to go but when I read some of the threads and responses, the disdain that some Ottawa ladies have for some of the clients they see. I'm just at a loss here.
CleoP/Kaia Sophia - I saw you way back in the day and have no issues with you. My rant is more about the current state of the scene in Ottawa.
