Do you get jealous of her yearly earnings? Most escorts make more then thier clients?

[fall]

Actually, I think another issue is in the question "do you like your job". I guess, most doctors, engineers, scientists, etc. really like what they do, so, they can easily work 40 hours a week (or more) without considering it to be hard labour. But they did sacrifice a lot (4 years or partying in high school, 4 years of partying at College, 2-6 years of no income in grad school, 2-6 years of low income as interns). Most electricians, plumbers, etc. are OK with their job: they prefer not to, but they are getting good money, so,they work. Walmart cashiers, Tim Horton employees hate their jobs: they make little money but have to work full-time to support themselves. Miners and other hard labour jobs: they realise that their job is hard but they want to do it anyway since they have families to support, so, they do work full time although working part-time can be sufficient to earn enough money to live on. IMHO, SPs are like miners: their job is hard if you do it full-time, but the pay is good too. However, they have different life priorities and, as a result, value their leisure more and chose to work less. And, just to be clear, what SPs job is: to pretend to be happy (not being happy).

 

[StillROAMing]

See, now if I reply the ***** 'win'. If I give them the answer they are looking for the ****** 'win'. So I'm not going to give them what they want.

 

[fall]

See, now if I reply the ***** 'win'. If I give them the answer they are looking for the ****** 'win'. So I'm not going to give them what they want.

:first:

 

[fall]

On the subject matter. I think that many clients have given up on escorts in Ottawa, and I think that has to have an effect on the rates in this city.

Yep, I think it is true. Definitely true for me. No good agency to go to. All independent require pre-booking and they are way older than my desired age range. Pleas, please, please, somebody, open an agency with girls like in Brass. have a steady last-minute availability and good location and I'll be the first one to pay high premium for it.

 

[fall]

A++++
Put your money where your mouth is!

I am afraid, there is no demand for me as an SP . But, I guess, there are not many hospitals that want to hire you as a doctor either. And when people look at stock market returns, they are not interested in daily returns (one day different from another), but at average annual return. Same here: yes, SP income fluctuate on daily/weekly/monthly basis. What we are talking about annual income range or average annual income over 5 years. Yes, everybody different, we got it. Now, how many clients a week SP should see to have a job difficulty compared to a hard full-time manual job (note that we are trying to compare hard emotional job to a hard labour job since many hard emotional job requires more education). And do not say me we cannot make a comparison: everything can be compared at some level and $$$ is a common denominator.

 

[OttawaDude6969]

Nobody especially us, the clients, are jealous of the money that any providers make.

If we are thinking this way, then we should also so jealous of how much our neighbors or our friends make. We simply don't care. If you can make or charge as much as you can, then all the POWER to you. I would do the same thing if I can bill my customers more.

Sex work is real work. There is nothing wrong in discussion about average salary or cost of a business or a job. Sex work is real work or real job.

 

[Inara]

I am afraid, there is no demand for me as an SP . But, I guess, there are not many hospitals that want to hire you as a doctor either. And when people look at stock market returns, they are not interested in daily returns (one day different from another), but at average annual return. Same here: yes, SP income fluctuate on daily/weekly/monthly basis. What we are talking about annual income range or average annual income over 5 years. Yes, everybody different, we got it. Now, how many clients a week SP should see to have a job difficulty compared to a hard full-time manual job (note that we are trying to compare hard emotional job to a hard labour job since many hard emotional job requires more education). And do not say me we cannot make a comparison: everything can be compared at some level and $$$ is a common denominator.

I would sure hope no one wants to hire me as a doctor since I never went to school for it. But I’m not sitting around on private forums to give scholarly advice and suggestions to doctors and hospitals on how to run their operations. Since you have so many great advices and seem to know much better than the actual workers, apply it to yourself. Why not start an agency? There is clearly demand for one. Sign on a lease with 2-3 girls operating out of one place and report back here with your success.

 

[fall]

I would sure hope no one wants to hire me as a doctor since I never went to school for it. But I’m not sitting around on private forums to give scholarly advice and suggestions to doctors and hospitals on how to run their operations. Since you have so many great advices and seem to know much better than the actual workers, apply it to yourself. Why not start an agency? There is clearly demand for one. Sign on a lease with 2-3 girls operating out of one place and report back here with your success.

Please, read carefully and try to find if I ever gave any advice on how to run the business. I just point out possible inefficiencies (relative to agency business model) and incorrect definition of full-time employment. What I am puzzled with is why Toronto and Montreal have so many agencies and we have none. I think, it is time for us, clients, to take a stand and stop visiting indi SPs (Biz, it is your fault we have such poor SP scene here, stop patronising indis!!!) so that they will have incentives to finally form an agency . All power to the customers, let's get rid of mom-and-pop stores and finally have our Walmart .

 

[fall]

Since you have so many great advices and seem to know much better than the actual workers, apply it to yourself. Why not start an agency? There is clearly demand for one. Sign on a lease with 2-3 girls operating out of one place and report back here with your success.

I think, you make another mistake equalising ability to spot inefficiencies and opportunities with ability to take advantage of them. I can do the first, but I am not good at second. This is why I make $170K, not $500K a year . But the fact that I cannot do it and the fact that the only counterargument I hear from SPs is "it is impossible because we know better" makes me think that I am right and there is a better model. We just need a good entrepreneur to do it. Like it was done with CMJ at its early days.

 

[Inara]

I think, you make another mistake equalising ability to spot inefficiencies and opportunities with ability to take advantage of them. I can do the first, but I am not good at second. This is why I make $170K, not $500K a year . But the fact that I cannot do it and the fact that the only counterargument I hear from SPs is "it is impossible because we know better" makes me think that I am right and there is a better model. We just need a good entrepreneur to do it. Like it was done with CMJ at its early days.

All this talk to say you can’t actually put your money where your mouth is. Got it.

 

[fall]

All this talk to say you can’t actually put your money where your mouth is. Got it.

And this is another example of faulty logic. I'll be happy to invest money in such enterprise assuming a proper mechanism exist that makes the manager to maximise the profit and guarantee that he will not steal, I do not want to be the manager myself since I will not be a good one. The fact that you can recognise a bad painting has nothing to do with the fact that your painting will be even worse, it simply means that his one is crappy. If I see an SP and had a bad experience with her, I am pretty sure what exactly she did wrong, but it does not mean that I could do it better, it means that other SPs do it better. And indis who cannot net $100K+ a year are either bad at their job as SW, or at their job as their own manager, or just do not want to work full-time. Renting an apartment that will be used only 15 days a month is an example of such inefficiency that agencies do not have: agencies use their (studio) apartments 7 days a week and have 6-10 clients per apartment, hence, their major fixed costs are a third of what indi's have to pay for the convenience of working on their own terms.

 

[Inara]

And this is another example of faulty logic. I'll be happy to invest money in such enterprise assuming a proper mechanism exist that makes the manager to maximise the profit and guarantee that he will not steal, I do not want to be the manager myself since I will not be a good one. The fact that you can recognise a bad painting has nothing to do with the fact that your painting will be even worse, it simply means that his one is crappy. If I see an SP and had a bad experience with her, I am pretty sure what exactly she did wrong, but it does not mean that I could do it better, it means that other SPs do it better. And indis who cannot net $100K+ a year are either bad at their job as SW, or at their job as their own manager, or just do not want to work full-time. Renting an apartment that will be used only 15 days a month is an example of such inefficiency that agencies do not have: agencies use their (studio) apartments 7 days a week and have 6-10 clients per apartment, hence, their major fixed costs are a third of what indi's have to pay for the convenience of working on their own terms.

Your business model only exists in theory. You’ve never implemented it in the real world and do not have any data to back up that in reality it’ll work as well as you’ve claimed. Without any proven data to back up your theories, your business model is completely useless, no matter how sure you are that they work. I’ve asked you to implement your business models and come back with how well it works.. After you prove your methods work as you say they will with verified data, I’ll give you a listen. Until then, is all nonsense to me.

 

[Inara]

agencies use their (studio) apartments 7 days a week and have 6-10 clients per apartment, hence, their major fixed costs are a third of what indi's have to pay for the convenience of working on their own terms.

All of these are unverified claims.
6-10 clients per apartment? 1/3 of the fixed expenses of an independent SP? Where are you pulling your numbers from?

Most agencies don’t bother to stick around for long in this city, whereas independents do. But you’re claiming agencies have lower operating costs and work more efficiently. Back up your words please.

 

[fall]

All of these are unverified claims.
6-10 clients per apartment? 1/3 of the fixed expenses of an independent SP? Where are you puling your numbers from?

Most agencies don’t bother to stick around for long in this city, whereas independents do. But you’re claiming agencies have lower operating costs and work more efficiently. Back up your words please.

Well, the fact that agencies exist and prosper in Toronto and Montreal is an evidence it works fine. The question is: what is so different about Ottawa? Any thoughts?

 

[Inara]

Well, the fact that agencies exist and prosper in Toronto and Montreal is an evidence it works fine. The question is: what is so different about Ottawa? Any thoughts?

Operating costs I assume. The demands you speak of at 4x simply aren’t real.

Montreal and Toronto are different cities with different clientele. You can’t compare them to Ottawa even if you bought services there. I’ve worked in many intl cities but just because I’ve done so, I can’t compare them to Ottawa or each other. Each city has its own model that works best. Toronto and Montreal are way more entertainment based. And agencies running is still not enough evidence as to how you came up with your numbers. Unless you sat outside each agency door 7 days a week, counting heads and talking to the landlords about the rent price, I call bullshit on your numbers.

For the record, I totally think $150k net is possible, but imo they’re in a high percentile (can’t give you a definite number), and nowhere near the average incomes of career based providers who are in it full time. I mostly pop in and out when I can, but I know ladies who only work in this industry and have mortgages, investments in properties and the bank, great credit so whatever they earn, it must be working well for them. Doesn’t gotta be 150k+ net to be “successful”. And making less than 100k+ doesn’t mean they’re doing something wrong//not working full time/“terrible managers”.

 

[Jasmine Raine]

And this is another example of faulty logic. I'll be happy to invest money in such enterprise assuming a proper mechanism exist that makes the manager to maximise the profit and guarantee that he will not steal, I do not want to be the manager myself since I will not be a good one. The fact that you can recognise a bad painting has nothing to do with the fact that your painting will be even worse, it simply means that his one is crappy. If I see an SP and had a bad experience with her, I am pretty sure what exactly she did wrong, but it does not mean that I could do it better, it means that other SPs do it better. And indis who cannot net $100K+ a year are either bad at their job as SW, or at their job as their own manager, or just do not want to work full-time. Renting an apartment that will be used only 15 days a month is an example of such inefficiency that agencies do not have: agencies use their (studio) apartments 7 days a week and have 6-10 clients per apartment, hence, their major fixed costs are a third of what indi's have to pay for the convenience of working on their own terms.

Please start an agency in Ottawa. Please invest all the money you can and use your numbers to ensure yourself that you can make all this money.

We won't laugh when you have to fold up shop because your numbers are off.

Or because the guys in Ottawa are apparently to rude, wastes to much time, to many no shows, or those who simply refuse to pay a good average rate. At least is what you guys have been told over and over by many providers about the issues with Ottawa. It is why many escorts stopped touring Ottawa.

Not my experience. I am fully booked when I'm in Ottawa, but this has been repeatedly said about Ottawa.

 

[Readr]

There was two starting questions: (1) Are you jealous and (2) Do providers earn more than their clients (notice the question marks at the end of each questions at the first post). But right after the discussion about the second topic starts, some SPs, instead of either participating or not participating in respectful discussion, jump in trying to close this discussion ("not your business"), claim that they know better but do not want to listen to clients' arguments and suggestions and do not provide an arguments and facts to support their position (except for Ali), and, finally, side-railed into discussion about "high vs. low fees"

No SP still provided any arguments against these points:

1) Agency girl can easily have 4 hours of clients in 8 hour shift getting paid $160 per hour net (no expenses)
2) Full time is 5 days a week with generous 8 weeks a year vacation/holiday (i.e., 48 total work weeks)
3) (1) & (2) gives $153,600 net a year
4) If indi cannot make $150,000 net (after all expenses) per year, why they work as indi and not for an agency? If they chose to worlas indi, it means one or more of (a) they do not work ful time (b) indi work is less demanding than agency girl work or (c) their business is not run efficiently or (d) The indi model of business is not efficient as a class

And do not give me a BS that 4 hours of clients per day 5 days a week 10 month a year is too hard and emotionally stressful. Of course it is hard and stressful - it is part of the job (this is why it is a job for SPs, not a hobby) This is why SPs are paid so well without having to get a degree first.

Great thread!

1. Depends on the rate, city, service and attitude. For Ottawa, it is possible. For this to happen, she needs to gradually increase her customer base. It won't happen in day one! So given a year or two in Ottawa with consist quality services with the right middle ground price and she should be set. This also includes top reviews all year round.

2. I can agree on that if she works 5 days a week IN the agency. Meaning, even if she doesn't receive a client in a given working day, she must still remain in the premise.

3. Maybe not in her first year, but gradually I can see this income for a AGENCY girl. If variables x, y, z are consistent.

4. Agree with (a). The more you work, the more money you're going to make. I don't agree with (b). There is a demand for indies with great body, attitude, and PSE service. Just look up that cuddlebuddy thread lmao! I don't agree with (c). They can work from home and gradually become the biggest Indy escort in the city (as long as she's not in any serious danger or risk). Assuming everything goes smoothly. As for (d) we have to consider that agency girls will always draw the biggest crowd. So more eyes on them but a Indy can always increase her customer base over the years.

 

[medalllione]

All the strident calls for folks to shut up has not and will not work, they're being directed to folks that don't take well to being told to shut up. So, spare your breadth. Apparently, the Mod has let be this thread regardless of whether certain people feel it should be shut down, unlike other threads on SP or MA rates. Let those that want to have their say do so, it's a free world afterall, the thread will die out when there are no rebuttals to every opinion or calls for people to shut up or mind their damn business.

That said , I'm glad that the discussion is now being more civil and on point and I'm glad Mod decided to leave the thread as it's a useful resource, great information being shared, newbies can learn ( unfortunately all of the insightful information that was shared in the deleted threads are gone) . So keep the free flow of ideas churning.

 

[FlorenceYi]

For those of you who haven't already, incorporate your business to bring your taxes down from 30-40% to 16%. I'm all for cash but buying power when it comes to claiming income is powerful. These days, they want us to show NET income on our NOAs to purchase property. And, where you gonna stash all the cash anyway?

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cd-dgc.nsf/eng/cs06939.html

Only $200 and takes like 15 minutes. Ask your accountant to back-track all your earnings for the year. Get it done before 2020. If you need help text me.

647.487.7071

 

[Inara]

I agree with fall that the concept make sense, but I agree with Inara that stating actual numbers isn't appropriate.

Yes the unit can be used 7 days a week if the agency has enough escorts to sustain that.

Yes the fix cost of the unit will be lower, that's a given.

As for clients, yes there are LIKELY more that will visit the unit.

It doesn’t matter how much a concept makes sense on paper. Communism is fantastic on paper but applied to the real world, it’s disastrous. If his concepts make sense to you, by all means apply it to the real world and come back with verified proof showing that it works. Until then, claiming it makes sense is useless.