What To Do about Gun Violence in Toronto?

[JuanGoodman]

Well, the point of mandatory minimums is that they’re are no exceptions. I could see maybe something like if you’re arrested for committing a crime, your sentence is doubled if you were carrying a gun at the time. Gives judges a little more wiggle room to work with. Even that’s a pretty imperfect solution, though. Really, we just need judges to enforce the law properly and give appropriate sentences rather than trying to activists and giving violent thugs light sentences because “they can be rehabilitated”.

I think you are the most levelheaded person in this debate so far. I'm just angry at the current state of affairs and would like to make some drastic changes. On the surface it seems easy to come up with a new law that would address this issue once and for all but I guess we should let cooler heads prevail. As long as they do something meaningful instead of the same routine of banning guns. witch will accomplish nothing except make the politicians look like they care.

 

[WULA]

Re-instate carding.

It is not pretty and it is not nice, but it seemed to work.

 

[Darts]

Let's see what sentence Christopher Husbands gets. His conviction has already been reduced from 2nd degree to 3rd degree murder (manslaughter).

 

[wilbur]

No new laws are needed. They just have to enforce the ones that already exist.

Posecutors routinely offer plea bargains. For gun crimes, they offer to plea bargain the gun charges away (possession of a restricted/prohibited firearm, use of a firearm in the commission of a crime, pointing a firearm etc etc, for a guilty plea of simple robbery or assault. Then, they get a slap on the wrist and they are soon on the street again, and the Crown, can process these as quickly as they can to get to the next one: good for statistics.

I think it's because the system is overwhelmed, and the Crown cannot deal with the sheer number of gun crime with full trials: not enough money for fully prosecuting gun crimes., except for the most egregious ones.

They should put more money into prosecuting, convicting and keeping these sociopaths away from society.... but it takes money to hire more Crown Prosecutors, Judges, Court time, prisons etc.

 

[wilbur]

I think you are the most levelheaded person in this debate so far. I'm just angry at the current state of affairs and would like to make some drastic changes. On the surface it seems easy to come up with a new law that would address this issue once and for all but I guess we should let cooler heads prevail. As long as they do something meaningful instead of the same routine of banning guns. witch will accomplish nothing except make the politicians look like they care.

The issue of banning guns or not should be seen as a matter of cost-benefit:

Banning them does have a cost: police resources for enforcement and prosecution, possible buy-back and disposal.

Australia spent half a billion (not million) dollars on its buy-back program. Unless that is rolled into a bigger deficit, other programs wind up getting cut back.

How many lives are saved with a gun ban? probably too low to count because only the licensed owners will be affected, not the actual criminals who are in illegal possession.

Money diverted from other sources would result in loss of life, like cut backs in mental health treatment, and the general health care system.

Say instead of a half billion dollar buy-back, that money was used to expand the number of diagnostic imaging machines, cutting back some of the very long waiting lists, how many lives would that save, giving these people more rapid treatment? Quite a lot; mental health services are in a misreable state, and a lot of desperate people wind up in jail or commit suicide. The waiting lists for detox are huge, and a lot of people overdose in the meantime.

You want an example of an underfunded decrepid health care system: look at Quebec.... it's atrocious and I'm glad I don't live there; but they have money for a useless gun registry.

 

[curr3n_c1000]

I'll post this here. There are certain places in the world that understand the importance of censorship. Yes you need stiff laws, but laws don't prevent crimes, they just punish you for breaking them.

 

[curr3n_c1000]

 

[HEYHEY]

Sentencing does not deter it in the States. I doubt it will here as well. The people who live the high risk lifestyle know they will end up in jail, dead, or paralyzed.

Whether it deters or not is debatable, but the fact that its nearly impossible to shoot more innocent people when you're locked up in jail isn't.

 

[HEYHEY]

What To Do about Gun Violence in Toronto?

Can we agree that one way to address the issue of gun violence right away, would be to change the sentencing of the people that are responsible. If you get caught carrying a loaded gun in public , that is an automatic 10 years sentence. No parole, no excuses no leniency. You will STAY in jail for 10 years!!! And courts would treat those charges immediately, it would be priority number one trial. No bail, straight to jail.( that has a nice ring to it, don't you think? Almost like an election slogan "NO BAIL, STRAIGHT TO JAIL") I'm sure it would make at least some of the folks think twice about playing with guns.

It might not be a deterrent for all, but possibly for some and anyway the once that were caught wouldn't be around us for a long time.


That is something we could do right away, tomorrow! If only there was political will. It would not be cure for all but at least it would be a start. A first step in the right direction. At least it would answer some of the victims family's cry's "DO SOMETHING !!!"

Agree 100%

 

[SQUAD51]

The gun issue is very complex with too many facets for the average "I can fix that-one liner politician" to solve.
In Toronto and Hamilton last weekend the shootings were at specifically targeted people.
That means thug on thug over drugs or other criminal activity. Criminal control, not gun control is the solution. If caught increase the incarceration, and bring back work prisons. Northern Manitoba is very suitable. Given a big rock and small hammer and start making small rocks.
In one case guns were owned and registered legally but security was lacking. Could the mental health of the shooter be at issue? Perhaps, but nowhere is there the political will or the expertise to reach out and certify the masses to determine who could snap. These will be very hard to get a grip on. Families and friends need to watch for behavioral clues and red flags.
In the US the mass shootings are a societal issue. Hate crimes occur where the first amendment allows the philosophy of the truly stupid to inspire more of the unwashed morons to do more truly stupid things.
In Canada it happens when Muslims are radicalized. Is there any stomach any anywhere to lean on the imams?
Incels (Involuntary celibate...aka....haven't clued in to go see an SP) used rented vehicles for their mass murder.
I don't see anyone rushing to regulate the car rental industry, and given current laws and punishmnets on firearms, it doesn't make sense to add any.

The path to change is not going to occur overnight and will be challenging.
People have to respect the rule of law and the police more than the glamorous thugs in the 'hood.
Neighbors need to watch out for each other and report crimes, criminals and criminal activity.
If you see something, SAY something. The neighborhood is only as safe as you make it.
The community wants more from the police, but wont give up the criminals or report anything and don't want 24 hr patrol presence because "they feel threatened"
You cant have it both ways ( aka suck and blow at the same time). Either report crap as it happens and the criminals will relocate and cops wont need to be there, or protect the neighbor thugs, and when a child gets shot, you will have more cops there than at the Pride Parade.

 

[kherg007]

In some places the laws are draconian. In singapore...use a gun in a crime...20 years. Fire the weapon...death sentence. Don't have to hit anyone. Not necessarily advocating for this, but will say 5.5m people in Singapore usually about 15 homicides per year.

 

[HEYHEY]

In some places the laws are draconian. In singapore...use a gun in a crime...20 years. Fire the weapon...death sentence. Don't have to hit anyone. Not necessarily advocating for this, but will say 5.5m people in Singapore usually about 15 homicides per year.

Sounds like a reasonable law

 

[hamermill]

Bring back TAVIS. Start collecting race based data.

 

[catman42]

What about the 326 gang bangers out on bail for " gun related charges" ???????

 

[Robert Mugabe]

What To Do about Gun Violence in Toronto?

Can we agree that one way to address the issue of gun violence right away, would be to change the sentencing of the people that are responsible. If you get caught carrying a loaded gun in public , that is an automatic 10 years sentence. No parole, no excuses no leniency. You will STAY in jail for 10 years!!! And courts would treat those charges immediately, it would be priority number one trial. No bail, straight to jail.( that has a nice ring to it, don't you think? Almost like an election slogan "NO BAIL, STRAIGHT TO JAIL") I'm sure it would make at least some of the folks think twice about playing with guns.

It might not be a deterrent for all, but possibly for some and anyway the once that were caught wouldn't be around us for a long time.


That is something we could do right away, tomorrow! If only there was political will. It would not be cure for all but at least it would be a start. A first step in the right direction. At least it would answer some of the victims family's cry's "DO SOMETHING !!!"

It's been proven. The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to have a good guy with a gun.

 

[shai]

Here's one idea to lessen it. It worked in Montreal, an unpublished policy, that if a liquor serving establishment had more than one weapon crime in or near it, it lost its liquor licence and the city went after its license to operate.

Another, publish who is shooting at whom. And why.

 

[whiteshaft]

Anyone with a License can get ammunition from a store or on line. There is no way to trace ammunition.

When time comes to elections, political candidates never fail to highlight the importance of implementing tougher, much more effective/innovative gun-control policies. It appears a stronger sense of urgency and commitment is currently still badly needed if government is serious about controlling this problem.

 

[brian44]

What about just stop the selling of guns, especially hand guns and assault rifles?

 

[JuanGoodman]

What about the 326 gang bangers out on bail for " gun related charges" ???????

It's hard to believe that's true. Its just crazy. The Police chief pointed it out and immediately this was the reply:

"Claims by Toronto's police chief and mayor that a too-lenient bail system for people accused of gun-related offenses is one of the causes for the rash of shootings in the city "is complete and utter nonsense," the head of the Criminal Lawyers' Association says."

Sure, what else are they going to say.

 

[JuanGoodman]

What about just stop the selling of guns, especially hand guns and assault rifles?

Guns are already illegal. You can't buy a gun, if you don't have a license. Criminals buy illegal guns. Stopping to sell guns legally is not going to change that.