Michael Jackson - Leaving Neverland on HBO

icespot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2005
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So we'll put you squarely in the "Michael Jackson didn't do it category".

And I assume that you would be completely comfortable letting your 7 year old son sleep in the same bed as Michael Jackson if he were still alive. After all, "present tense" clearly dictates that these 2 men are lying.
Back up a bit there chief, like I said usually it indicates.....

Additionally earlier I told you we need more before destroying Michaels legacy.

We don't have a pure version of the statement.
We don't have a time/date stamp during the interview.
There was editing filling in the story in a certain direction.
It would take weeks to do an analysis on that doc.

What I'm getting at is we don't have more than manipulated suspicion at this moment.

We most follow the evidence where ever it lead us, but by following evidence.

Lastly, we all know he was fucked in the head, he thought he was a man child.

What kind of fucking patent knowing full well that the dude had major psychological/psychiatric problems would let their child sleep with him in the same bed.

If you had a fully grown tiger that grew up believing he was a dog, acted like a dog and was friendly and loving to every kid that pet him. Would you let your kids sleep in the same bed as the tiger? "Fuck no, it's a fucked up tiger that still a tiger and can devourer your children.

No excuses for this gready parents,.

Guy had major issues, you don't leave him alone with your kids. What kind of good parents do that. I know you wouldn't.
 

Smallcock

Active member
Jun 5, 2009
13,697
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Here's part 3 of a critique of the movie which points out so many stark fallacies in it:


I don't think the film is going to age well nor stand up to even modest scrutiny. I understand HBO and other media, including Oprah, wanting to run with it and create another lucrative circus off MJ, but what this really is an example of is #metoo gone full circle. But worse. Make a claim, have your day in court, get the verdict. Do this multiple times and the same verdict is rendered after years of FBI investigations. Come back to it over a decade later when your life hasn't gone anywhere with the same claims without any evidence and re-prosecute the target via mass media. This is really next-level ridiculousness and it's actually quite dangerous.
 

icespot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2005
1,692
84
48
Here's part 3 of a critique of the movie which points out so many stark fallacies in it:


I don't think the film is going to age well nor stand up to even modest scrutiny. I understand HBO and other media, including Oprah, wanting to run with it and create another lucrative circus off MJ, but what this really is an example of is #metoo gone full circle. But worse. Make a claim, have your day in court, get the verdict. Do this multiple times and the same verdict is rendered after years of FBI investigations. Come back to it over a decade later when your life hasn't gone anywhere with the same claims without any evidence and re-prosecute the target via mass media. This is really next-level ridiculousness and it's actually quite dangerous.
It's modern day, perfect example of Moral Panic. Like the Spanish Inquisition
 

Smallcock

Active member
Jun 5, 2009
13,697
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I watched the second half of the documentary, and it's much more emotional than the first half. The men fight back tears and nearing the end it shows their own families with young children and the men talking about how innocent children are. It definitely pulls at the heart strings, and is very convincing. But even amateur escorts can be convincing in making you feel things that aren't real. These men's claims can't be taken in isolation. When taken in context and fact checked, it's impossible to know whether they're lying (again) about all events or just some events. As the videos cited above indicate, the men continue to blatantly lie in the movie.

What we know from the perspective not shown in the movie:
1) Both men aren't doing well financially.
2) HBO isn't doing well financially. They're losing out to streaming.
3) Both men lied (i.e. are established perjurers); they've changed their stories multiple times (they explain this by arguing they had conflicting emotions about MJ), so there is no way to know what story is legit
4) Prosecutors argued that the allegations would lead to a landslide of similar accusations against Jackson. No such thing has happened in 20 years.
5) MJ was investigated by the FBI for a decade, raided dozens of times, and exonerated in courts of law. If accusers are allowed to defame those found not guilty we might as well throw out the judicial system.
6) Others under MJ's care as children (Feldman, Caulkin, Brett, Mark Lester) all say that MJ treated them just like James & Wade sans molestation; therefore as strange as it is for a man to sleep in the same bed as kids, it clearly doesn't mean he will molest them.
7) None of the accusers can describe MJ's genitals after having dozens of interactions and oral sex into their teens over many years
8) Wade describes himself as a "master of deception", something Jussie Smollett clearly aspired to
9) Wade and James have appealed a $1.5 billion lawsuit and the movie is intended to raise their public profile; money as motivation is a constant in all MJ cases even to the point where these guys forego criminal suits (where there is no money) for civil litigation (where the money is)
10) I've never followed MJ's court cases closely but the videos linked above indicate that the movie is big on omissions, defamation, emotion while void of evidence, facts, findings

I'm sure this list is longer but I don't follow this stuff enough to know all the details.

The lawsuit against HBO by MJ's Estate is an interesting read: https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/mj-arbitration-doc-1.pdf

I think that Wade and James will lose in court because the legal system relies on evidence and credibility, not carefully crafted narratives in a movie that fall flat under cross examinations.

All that said, I don't know if MJ molested these men, and we'll never know due to lack of any shred of physical evidence, and in part because they've muddied the waters so much over the years by establishing themselves as untrustworthy. The evidence trail, though, points to Jackson's innocence.
 
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icespot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2005
1,692
84
48
I watched the second half of the documentary, and it's much more emotional than the first half. The men fight back tears and nearing the end it shows their own families with young children and the men talking about how innocent children are. It definitely pulls at the heart strings, and is very convincing. But even amateur escorts can be convincing in making you feel things that aren't real. These men's claims can't be taken in isolation. When taken in context and fact checked, it's impossible to know whether they're lying (again) about all events or just some events. As the videos cited above indicate, the men continue to blatantly lie in the movie.

What we know from the perspective not shown in the movie:
1) Both men aren't doing well financially.
2) HBO isn't doing well financially. They're losing out to streaming.
3) Both men lied (i.e. are established perjurers); they've changed their stories multiple times (they explain this by arguing they had conflicting emotions about MJ), so there is no way to know what story is legit
4) Prosecutors argued that the allegations would lead to a landslide of similar accusations against Jackson. No such thing has happened in 20 years.
5) MJ was investigated by the FBI for a decade, raided dozens of times, and exonerated in courts of law. If accusers are allowed to defame those found not guilty we might as well throw out the judicial system.
6) Others under MJ's care as children (Feldman, Caulkin, Brett, Mark Lester) all say that MJ treated them just like James & Wade sans molestation; therefore as strange as it is for a man to sleep in the same bed as kids, it clearly doesn't mean he will molest them.
7) None of the accusers can describe MJ's genitals after having dozens of interactions and oral sex into their teens over many years
8) Wade describes himself as a "master of deception", something Jussie Smollett clearly aspired to
9) Wade and James have appealed a $1.5 billion lawsuit and the movie is intended to raise their public profile; money as motivation is a constant in all MJ cases even to the point where these guys forego criminal suits (where there is no money) for civil litigation (where the money is)
10) I've never followed MJ's court cases closely but the videos linked above indicate that the movie is big on omissions, defamation, emotion while void of evidence, facts, findings

I'm sure this list is longer but I don't follow this stuff enough to know all the details.

The lawsuit against HBO by MJ's Estate is an interesting read: https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/mj-arbitration-doc-1.pdf

I think that Wade and James will lose in court because the legal system relies on evidence and credibility, not carefully crafted narratives in a movie that fall flat under cross examinations.

All that said, I don't know if MJ molested these men, and we'll never know due to lack of any shred of physical evidence, and in part because they've muddied the waters so much over the years by establishing themselves as untrustworthy.
Very impressive.....well said.

For 1.5 billion yeah, MJ molested me 2, this guys are telling the full truth.

That is very troubling, why make a special if you have a 1.5 billion law suit. Oh yeah to get public support and taint a potential jury.
 

penelopebloom

Active member
Mar 18, 2014
445
23
28
Here's part 3 of a critique of the movie which points out so many stark fallacies in it:


I don't think the film is going to age well nor stand up to even modest scrutiny. I understand HBO and other media, including Oprah, wanting to run with it and create another lucrative circus off MJ, but what this really is an example of is #metoo gone full circle. But worse. Make a claim, have your day in court, get the verdict. Do this multiple times and the same verdict is rendered after years of FBI investigations. Come back to it over a decade later when your life hasn't gone anywhere with the same claims without any evidence and re-prosecute the target via mass media. This is really next-level ridiculousness and it's actually quite dangerous.
ok i finally finished both parts of doc. i can't believe it was that fucking long! but i also watched the razörfist video (lol, a metal-themed MJ supporter video) and i TOTALLY noticed that it was weird for the mom to say "i was so glad when MJ died" because how the fuck would she have known if safechuck never said anything about it until much later???

i don't know. i definitely don't believe wade robson. and like, can his sister please blow her nose or take a decongestant before being interviewed for a 4-hour documentary, because that was annoying.
 

WarGames

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Mar 26, 2018
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Maybe you should watch it so you might learn a thing or two rather than just being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.
Now watch this

 

WarGames

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Mar 26, 2018
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|2 /-\ | /|/

Well-known member
Mar 5, 2015
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People are savages and not in a good way. These guys are the true monsters. Disgusting!!! Don’t contribute to this. Imagine if you were the daughter.

Response from Paris Jackson:
fuck you you fucking liars

https://twitter.com/parisjackson/status/1107009409136246784
 

Smallcock

Active member
Jun 5, 2009
13,697
21
38
People are savages and not in a good way. These guys are the true monsters. Disgusting!!! Don’t contribute to this. Imagine if you were the daughter.
When Trump first called out 'Fake News' several years ago, he was ahead of his time. They'll run with anything that brings the most eyeballs, with few exceptions. The more outlandish, the better and no critical analysis needed nor desired. The organizations (primarily liberal) that build people up - they used to love Trump and MJ - are the same ones that'll try to bring them down for the almighty dollar. This is why I hope that Covington kid gets a massive settlement out of CNN et al.

The only bulwark against the fake media in America is the judicial system. Pray that it never becomes compromised.
 
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