Israel Haters Silent As Palestinians Gassed in Tunnel. Can You Guess Why?

[Frankfooter]

Funny.

Netanyahu is partnering with terrorists right now.
You've called Kahane and his supporters terrorists and now Netanyahu is partnering with them.
Are you backing terrorists or are you against terrorism?

Just asking...

 

[basketcase]

Netanyahu is partnering with terrorists right now.
You've called Kahane and his supporters terrorists and now Netanyahu is partnering with them.
Are you backing terrorists or are you against terrorism?

Just asking...

Actually not. He supports a different far-right party merging with the Kahanists. His political gamesmanship has been condemned by many Israeli and Jewish sources including AIPAC.

And still wondering why you have no issue referring to Kahanists as terrorists while refusing to do so for Hamas who continues to commit terrorism. Just asking.

 

[Frankfooter]

Actually not. He supports a different far-right party merging with the Kahanists. His political gamesmanship has been condemned by many Israeli and Jewish sources including AIPAC.

And still wondering why you have no issue referring to Kahanists as terrorists while refusing to do so for Hamas who continues to commit terrorism. Just asking.

Still wondering why you appear to support aligning with those who brought the US the Jewish Defense League.

The Otzma Yehudit Party is the latest incarnation of the Jewish National Front, a party that was established ahead of the 2006 elections, but its roots are in the Kach movement, which Kahane established in the 1970s.

Kach was a radical and racist right-wing movement with fascist characteristics; it called to expel Arab citizens from Israeli territory and promoted racist legislation against all non-Jews. It also believed in making Israel a Halachah state (ruled by Jewish law) and in annexing all parts of Greater Israel.

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5467651,00.html

I'll ask again, do you still support Netanyahu as he merges with Otzma Yehudit?

 

[basketcase]

Still wondering why you appear to support aligning with those who brought the US the Jewish Defense League.


https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5467651,00.html

I'll ask again, do you still support Netanyahu as he merges with Otzma Yehudit?

It's sad that you not only need to lie about my view but you can't even criticize Netanyahu for what he actually did and had to make stuff up. I have never supported Netanyahu and have openly criticized both him and the Kahanists in this thread. you just give more evidence of your bullshit double standard that you need to lie about everything.

Fact is Netanyahu pushed for a second and third party to merge because neither one would meet the minimum threshold for getting a seat in parliament. His party didn't merge with anyone. The second party is as racist as Southern Republicans and the third party is not much different from parties Israel has banned for terrorism.


Meanwhile Hamas is openly a terrorist group, far more deadly than the fringe Otzma and with a far bigger following, but you would never criticize Hamas, just Jewish terrorists.

 

[Frankfooter]

It's sad that you not only need to lie about my view but you can't even criticize Netanyahu for what he actually did and had to make stuff up. I have never supported Netanyahu and have openly criticized both him and the Kahanists in this thread. you just give more evidence of your bullshit double standard that you need to lie about everything.

Fact is Netanyahu pushed for a second and third party to merge because neither one would meet the minimum threshold for getting a seat in parliament. His party didn't merge with anyone. The second party is as racist as Southern Republicans and the third party is not much different from parties Israel has banned for terrorism.


Meanwhile Hamas is openly a terrorist group, far more deadly than the fringe Otzma and with a far bigger following, but you would never criticize Hamas, just Jewish terrorists.

So now Netanyahu is partnering with terrorists but you still think only Hamas is worth discussing.
This is getting depressing in your support of everything you criticize, as long as Israel does it.

 

[contact]

so your not denying firebombs explosives and small arms then.... exploding bullets NO such thing the military fields FMJ full metal jacket ammo or open tip match (OTM) its NOT a hollow point, there is hollow points they don't explode they expand and fragment (fmj fragments too) many sniper rifles or designated marksmen's rifles (DMR) are semi automatic. semiautomatic rifles can be picky with hollow points and give feeding problems fmj feed reliably as do OTM which is what they use.


Police around the word use hollow point bullets including Toronto because they are safer in a populated areas hollow points when they hit a hard surface (including a person) break up into small pieces so they wont hit someone else down the street or go through a wall, car or whatever in most cases, fmj will keep on going and go through many objects

weapons used

IDF

standard rifle Tavor 5.56mm sometimes scoped and used for short range sniping 62grn fmj bullet the 5.56mm round is high velocity IIRC m16a4 is at muzzle 3200fps (not sure of Tavor but would be close) so at ranges under 250-300m its moving so fast it will fragment on impact this ammo meets all international rules of war

sniper m24 bolt action .308 cal m118 or m852 match grade bullet it is open tip match (OTM) it is not designed to expand on impact like a hollow point us forces use same ammo again approved for war

sr25 semi auto same bullet as above both rifle are for use under 600-800 Meters

You are lying, there are no legit reports of RPG's in protests.

The protesters are for the most part peaceful and have never injured or posed serious threat to Israeli armed forces who are behind a wall.
Instead, Israeli snipers have killed 300 and injured thousands, having crippled children and women using exploding bullets on protesters who are hundreds of metres away from the prison wall.

Palestinians have a right to protest for basic human rights.
Israel does not have the right to use snipers to kill them for getting too close to the prison walls.


https://www.msf.org/palestine-msf-t...ually-severe-and-devastating-gunshot-injuries

Why do you support crippling children?

 

[Frankfooter]

so your not denying firebombs explosives and small arms then.... exploding bullets NO such thing the military fields FMJ full metal jacket ammo or open tip match (OTM) its NOT a hollow point, there is hollow points they don't explode they expand and fragment (fmj fragments too) many sniper rifles or designated marksmen's rifles (DMR) are semi automatic. semiautomatic rifles can be picky with hollow points and give feeding problems fmj feed reliably as do OTM which is what they use.


Police around the word use hollow point bullets including Toronto because they are safer in a populated areas hollow points when they hit a hard surface (including a person) break up into small pieces so they wont hit someone else down the street or go through a wall, car or whatever in most cases, fmj will keep on going and go through many objects

weapons used

IDF

standard rifle Tavor 5.56mm sometimes scoped and used for short range sniping 62grn fmj bullet the 5.56mm round is high velocity IIRC m16a4 is at muzzle 3200fps (not sure of Tavor but would be close) so at ranges under 250-300m its moving so fast it will fragment on impact this ammo meets all international rules of war

sniper m24 bolt action .308 cal m118 or m852 match grade bullet it is open tip match (OTM) it is not designed to expand on impact like a hollow point us forces use same ammo again approved for war

sr25 semi auto same bullet as above both rifle are for use under 600-800 Meters

Feel free to take a look at the MSF reports on injuries and make use of your superior weapon knowledge to tell us what type of bullet Israel prefers to use on children.

“In half of the injured we received… the bone has literally been turned into dust.”

Thierry Saucier is an orthopedic surgeon for MSF in Gaza. He explains the complexity of caring for the hundreds of people injured during protests in recent weeks. Very serious injuries pose significant challenges for the surgeons, and will require months or even years of care.

What kind of injuries do you currently see among the wounded in Gaza?

We are mostly seeing bullet wounds. In more than 95% of cases, bullet wounds are in the lower limbs, including knees. We also find some gunshot wounds to the abdomen and upper limbs.

What is the most impressive, in the patients we saw in the last three weeks, are the exit wounds of the bullets. When a bullet passes through a body, it always has an exit wound slightly wider than that the entry one. But in the patients we treat in our post-operative care clinics, the exit wound gives an indication of the unusual destruction of soft tissues and bones inside the wound. The exit wound is disproportionately wider. It can be the size of a fist, or even of an open hand. These impressive lesions are obviously difficult to repair and often require subsequent grafts. In half of the injured we’ve received, the bullet has reached the bone, causing multi-fragment fractures, which means the bone has literally been turned into dust.

The bullets also cause multiple and irregular tears in the soft tissues (skin, tendons, muscles, nerves, arteries). This leads to devascularisation, which is to say that the blood flow doesn’t reach these tissues anymore, which in turn creates high risks of infections. If the bullet touches the sciatic nerve, it causes paralysis, which can be irreversible, as the repair of the lesions cannot be done in an emergency setting. When it is an arterial lesion, we face an immediate life-threatening risk, as well as a devitalisation of the limbs, and therefore often an amputation.

What types of surgery do you perform for these injured?

In leg wounds, we mainly perform lesion trimming, which consists of removing dead tissue. When the bone is hit, we exclusively install external fixators. Nerves, muscles and tendons cannot usually be repaired in an emergency setting.

As injuries are very severe, the tissues are often difficult to recognise within the wound. Sometimes they are just not there, carried away by the bullet. We cannot always recognise the normal anatomical order, as the features we look for are no longer present. We have to incise, upstream or downstream of the wound, to find the base of a nerve, a tendon, a blood vessel. This is similar to surgeries that are conducted on war wounds.

Surgery is extremely complex to perform and operations can last several hours. They are also complicated by the lack of certain materials and equipment. Today, only one hospital in Gaza has the necessary equipment for skin grafts and I came with my own microsurgery kit, including sutures and magnifying glasses. The teams we work with at Al-Aqsa and Al-Shifa hospitals are qualified teams, with whom we have good collaboration.

What are some of the health risks and long-term consequences the wounded face?

First, the risk of complications, especially infections, is very high for these types of injuries. There is also a risk of loss of substance - when a bone which has been destroyed by a bullet is growing back, it always becomes shorter than that of the other limb.

Second, although patients are stabilized through emergency operations, most will require additional operations. And of course there will be months, or even years, of rehabilitation.

The majority of the wounded, those whose bones, joints, nerves and arteries have been hit by bullets, will have certain side effects and conditions as a result of these injuries for the rest of their lives. These can include shortening limbs due to fractures; stiffness due to joint injuries; paralysis for injuries involving nerves; and vascular distress for arterial wounds, sometimes requiring subsequent amputations.

The functional prognosis is very serious in all the patients we have seen. These injuries are undeniably destructive for the lives of wounded. They will live with them for the long term, with no guarantee of ever regaining full physical ability.

https://www.msf.org/palestine-half-injured-we-received-bone-has-literally-been-turned-dust

Palestinians face explosive bullets, dangerous gas bombs

Multiple sources report “devastating injuries” from “exploding bullets” among Gaza protesters

Its possible they are just using long range sniper rifles in close range, hopefully the ICC will look into this and see if this was a war crime.
https://972mag.com/whats-causing-unusual-bullet-wounds-among-gaza-protesters/136137/

 

[contact]

so you don't like facts? the bullets I listed are exactly what are used not these magical exploding bullets are not used(they did play with them ww1 and ww2 they were not that useful or common used by Germany eastern front mainly)

Have you ever seen what a 5.56mm round will do to a person? (any rifle rnd for that matter)

a high velocity rnd hitting bone just fragments throw a snowball at a wall it fragments its not hollow point, bullets do the same thing

it would not be a war crime to use any rifle at any range war crime? there is no war and ICC has no sway over Israel

as far as targeting children I seriously doubt that but bullets do go through people and can and do hit those around them

if the child has a weapon all bets are off

 

[Frankfooter]

so you don't like facts? the bullets I listed are exactly what are used not these magical exploding bullets are not used(they did play with them ww1 and ww2 they were not that useful or common used by Germany eastern front mainly)

Have you ever seen what a 5.56mm round will do to a person? (any rifle rnd for that matter)

a high velocity rnd hitting bone just fragments throw a snowball at a wall it fragments its not hollow point, bullets do the same thing

it would not be a war crime to use any rifle at any range war crime? there is no war and ICC has no sway over Israel

The damage it does can be seen here, I don't want to post those horrific images here.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbVnvfcW4AA5QiL?format=jpg&name=small
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/gaza-medics-describe-horrific-injuries-at-border/

ICC ‘significantly progressed’ in preliminary examination of alleged war crimes in Palestine

https://www.icc-cpi.int/palestine

Enjoy.

 

[contact]

that's NOT m118

appears too long for .308 but cant be sure without size reference

looks like a hollow point that someone cut slits into

but whatever honestly I could care less really

Israel will ignore any biased ICC or un ruling

the world will move on and nothing changes

 

[Frankfooter]

that's NOT m118

appears too long for .308 but cant be sure without size reference

looks like a hollow point that someone cut slits into

but whatever honestly I could care less really

Israel will ignore any biased ICC or un ruling

the world will move on and nothing changes

You just lost your moral argument.
You're backing a side that's as bad as you claim Hamas is now.

 

[contact]

I did interesting? I basically don't care

the UN is biased against Israel

ICC unless it charges hamas with using human shields terrorist attacks unlawfully attacking a nation and hundreds of other crimes, then this shows they are also biased against Israel

so they have no respect from me (UN and ICC)

 

[Frankfooter]

I did interesting? I basically don't care

the UN is biased against Israel

ICC unless it charges hamas with using human shields terrorist attacks unlawfully attacking a nation and hundreds of other crimes, then this shows they are also biased against Israel

so they have no respect from me (UN and ICC)

Here's what the UN has to say about the acts that you are defending.

UN: Possible Israel crimes against humanity in Gaza
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/israel-crimes-humanity-gaza-190228102451058.html

There is evidence that Israel committed crimes against humanity in responding to 2018 protests in Gaza, as snipers targeted people clearly identifiable as children, health workers and journalists, according to a United Nations report.

"Israeli soldiers committed violations of international human rights and humanitarian law. Some of those violations may constitute war crimes or crimes against humanity," the chair of the UN Independent Commission of Inquiry on the protests in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, Santiago Canton, said in a statement on Thursday.

This is what you blame Hamas for here:

"More than 6,000 unarmed demonstrators were shot by military snipers, week after week at the protest sites," it said.

"The Commission found reasonable grounds to believe that Israeli snipers shot at journalists, health workers, children and persons with disabilities, knowing they were clearly recognisable as such," it said.

I find the people who support weekly sniper killings of women, children, health workers and journalists to be absolutely disgusting.

 

[contact]

another arm chair general here who believes the agenda against Israel

If you were ever in the military of any country you would know that the ROE (rules of engagement) spell out when and how much force you can use if your threatened even rocks you can use force back, usually least force to most, gas or less then less then lethal munitions (rubber bullets ect) which often do kill and maim. any solider whose safety is threatened will use whatever means the ROE allows to defend themselves or the area they are told to defend/hold considering the "protestors" many have publically stated they want to get into Israel to kill people I don't blame Israel for defending the boarder.

I have seen footage of hamas launching rockets and mortars from schools and hospitals and armed persons using ambulances for transport they also target civilian areas which are all against the rules of war

https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolic...bulances-for-military-terrorist-purposes.aspx

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...schools/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3f0c8464d6de



bottom line is you and I will never agree on this and again I don't really care what happens there. I live in Canada I'll likely never go to that area of the world again

 

[basketcase]

So now Netanyahu is partnering with terrorists but you still think only Hamas is worth discussing.
This is getting depressing in your support of everything you criticize, as long as Israel does it.

You are a complete freak and a compulsive liar.

First off, I criticized the merger of the Kahanists and Jewish Home as well as the way Netanyahu encouraged it and I have no problem doing it again. I also have no problem describing nationalist Jews who throw rocks at Palestinians as terrorists. But Likud did not merge with Otzma like you claim.

Hamas has done far more damage, committed far more terrorism, and has far more support than the fringe Israeli group which isn't even popular enough to win a seat on their own so yes, I will criticize Hamas for their terrorism and racism much more than I'll criticize a bunch of political nobodies for theirs.


And a couple big differences between Israel and the Palestinian political apparatus.
1) Israel has no issue with investigating and indicting their leaders for their crimes. Meanwhile the PA and Hamas have laws defending them and their massive corruption from criticism.
2) Israel doesn't condone overt racism. Their elections oversight group is discussing whether to ban Otzma Yehudit.

 

[basketcase]

...
if the child has a weapon all bets are off

Franky and his anti-Israel sites like to use the term "children" to describe teens who are statistically most involved in violence.

 

[contact]

Franky and his anti-Israel sites like to use the term "children" to describe teens who are statistically most involved in violence.

reminds me of the antigun groups in the grouping up to 25 in "children" killed by guns.....

 

[Frankfooter]

another arm chair general here who believes the agenda against Israel

If you were ever in the military of any country you would know that the ROE (rules of engagement) spell out when and how much force you can use if your threatened even rocks you can use force back, usually least force to most, gas or less then less then lethal munitions (rubber bullets ect) which often do kill and maim. any solider whose safety is threatened will use whatever means the ROE allows to defend themselves or the area they are told to defend/hold considering the "protestors" many have publically stated they want to get into Israel to kill people I don't blame Israel for defending the boarder.

I have seen footage of hamas launching rockets and mortars from schools and hospitals and armed persons using ambulances for transport they also target civilian areas which are all against the rules of war

https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolic...bulances-for-military-terrorist-purposes.aspx

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...schools/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3f0c8464d6de



bottom line is you and I will never agree on this and again I don't really care what happens there. I live in Canada I'll likely never go to that area of the world again

The bottom line is that almost every Friday over the last year Israeli snipers shot and killed protesters who were behind a prison wall.
They shot kids, women, disabled people, medics and journalists.

They are not in a war, its an illegal, 50 year occupation.
Gaza has been declared 'unliveable' due to the Israeli occupation and blockade, yet under the Geneva Conventions they are responsible for the welfare of those they occupy.

That's why I support investigations by the ICC and charges where merited.

 

[Frankfooter]

You are a complete freak and a compulsive liar.

...Hamas has done far more damage, committed far more terrorism,

According to that UN report, Israel killed 189 and shot and injured 6,000 more.
What has Hamas done that has caused more damage and/or terrorism?

And compare the damage in Gaza with the 2014 slaughter, what did Hamas do that comes close to comparing to the destruction and death caused by Israel?

You sir, are lying your face off.
Israel does way more killing, state terrorism and destruction.

https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBodies/HRCouncil/CoIOPT/A_HRC_40_74.pdf

 

[wigglee]

One of the tests to determine who is an antisemite is to see if they employ a double standard against Israel, the only Jewish state in the world.

Likewise the lovers of Israel at all costs, employ a double standard by being silent about the Palestinian evictions from their homes and happily look away as Netanyahoo is tried for serious corruption. He's ok as long as he encourages the shooting of children, eh?