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Jordan Peterson Was an Expert Witness in a Murder Trial. His Opinion Called Dubious

Charlemagne

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Jordan Peterson Was an Expert Witness in a Murder Trial. The Court Called His Expert Opinions ‘Dubious’.

Manitoba‘s highest court said Jordan Peterson’s “dubious expert opinion” was “unreliable” and “unnecessarily complicated” a murder trial

June 25, 2018

Jordan Peterson is going back to court.

The outspoken University of Toronto professor is launching a multi-million dollar defamation lawsuit against Wilfrid Laurier University one week after controversial teaching assistant Lindsay Shepherd launched her own lawsuit against Laurier.

Both Peterson and Shepherd are represented by the same lawyer: Howard Levitt, who sometimes writes about his clients in his column at the Financial Post.

Levitt might have his work cut out for him: legal experts have their doubts about the merits of the lawsuits, while media critics note Peterson’s talk of sending a “warning” to his ideological adversaries suggests his desired outcome is “libel chill.”

Not to mention, one of the last times Peterson took the stand, Manitoba’s highest court ruled Peterson’s “expert opinion” was “dubious” and “unreliable.”



Court of Queen’s Bench of Manitoba

Several years ago, before becoming a YouTube celebrity and winning the admiration of the alt-right, Peterson was called as an expert witness in the trial of a Winnipeg man who confessed to police that he killed his friend and sometimes lover.

The man later pleaded not guilty, claiming his confession was not true. He would go on to be convicted of manslaughter in two separate trials.

According to court documents reviewed by PressProgress, defence lawyers offered Peterson as an expert on “false confessions” and “false memories,” providing his expert opinion on the “reliability of the confession” the defendant gave to police.

Except the judge questioned the “reliability” of Peterson’s expert opinions instead.



Court of Appeal of Manitoba

Ruling on “the admissibility of expert evidence on false confessions” in January 2012, Manitoba Justice Shawn Greenberg ruled three-quarters of Peterson’s evidence was inadmissible and questioned his credibility as an expert witness.

“Dr. Peterson has no experience” assessing “the reliability of confessions,” Justice Greenberg wrote in her ruling.

“In fact, he acknowledges that he has never seen a police confession and did not view the video of the confession in this case.”

The judge noted Peterson’s expertise on “interview techniques” was limited to “job interviews,” something that is “benign in comparison to a murder investigation.”

Nonetheless, Peterson testified that “the effect of improper interview techniques” in job interviews and murder investigations are “the same in both situations.”



Court of Queen’s Bench of Manitoba

Justice Greenberg also appeared puzzled by Peterson’s testimony on false memories.

During a police interview, the defendant initially claimed he could not remember whether or not he killed his friend – the judge noted that Peterson “accepted” this explanation “without question.”

As Justice Greenberg observed: “being questioned about the death of a friend is not like being asked if one had remembered to turn off the stove.”

“If I understand Dr. Peterson’s evidence, if it is unlikely that one would repress the memory of killing someone,” the judge reasoned, “one would assume it is unlikely one would repress the memory that one did not kill the person.”



Court of Queen’s Bench of Manitoba

Justice Greenberg observed that Peterson got basic facts about the case wrong too.

Peterson testified that a “significant indicator of the reliability of the confession” would be if a murderer “told police something about the crime they did not know.”

According to Peterson, the defendant’s confession was unreliable because he only admitted to attacking the victim with a golf club after police had first told him that the murder weapon was a golf club.

Except as the judge pointed out, the defendant actually first “told police about the golf club earlier in the interview.”



Court of Queen’s Bench of Manitoba

In the end, the court restricted Peterson’s proposed evidence “significantly,” even recommending he use “scripting” to prevent him from rambling to the jury on topics “not pertinent to the matter before the court.”

Following the defendant’s conviction at his first trial, the defence’s appeal focused on these restrictions placed on Peterson’s evidence.

The Court of Appeals, Manitoba’s highest court, sided with the trial judge, stating it was “satisfied that the judge did not err in her determination as to the admissibility of expert evidence” from Peterson.

In a decision handed down in July 2014, Justice Chris Mainella raised additional questions about Peterson’s claim that an online personality quiz he authored (called the “Unfakeable Big Five”) could help exonerate the defendant.

As the appeal judge explained, Peterson’s quiz “purports to scientifically measure the five recognized areas of a person’s personality” and was devised as a “tool for hiring employees” – based on his quiz results, Peterson concluded the defendant is “highly agreeable” and thus “susceptible to being manipulated during questioning.”

Through his company ExamCorp, Peterson marketed aptitude and personality tests for years, promising to help businesses with “job candidate assessment.”



ExamCorp.com website, November 2011

“Dr. Peterson provided no evidence that his technique of personality assessment has been properly tested for the purpose it is being used for here,” Justice Mainella said.

The appeal judge noted Peterson “claimed, without any proof, that his assessment tool cannot be deceived while other personality assessments can be.”

“All Dr. Peterson could say is he hired university students to try and fake the personality assessment and they couldn’t do it,” Justice Mainella pointed out, concluding “that is not scientific validation.”



Court of Appeal of Manitoba

Justice Mainella was apparently so unimpressed by Peterson’s “proposed expert evidence,” he expressed “concern about the decision to attempt to proffer Dr. Peterson as an expert witness on areas that he was clearly not qualified.”

The judge concluded that offering Peterson as an expert witness “unnecessarily complicated and delayed the trial” and expressed concern about the “detrimental impact on the justice system of attempting to use dubious expert opinion.”



Court of Appeal of Manitoba

Although the appeal court agreed the trial judge “properly understood and fulfilled her role as a gatekeeper of expert evidence,” it concluded that the defendant’s right to a fair trial was compromised since the jury did not receive adequate information on “the phenomenon of false confessions.”

The Court of Appeals ordered a new trial. In 2016, the defendant was convicted of manslaughter for a second time.

The defence did not call Peterson as an expert witness at the second trial.

https://pressprogress.ca/jordan-peterson-was-an-expert-witness-in-a-murder-trial-the-court-called-his-expert-opinions-dubious/
 

mandrill

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The rules of expert evidence are very narrow and very precise. So this certainly doesn't discredit Peterson as an academic or a psychologist. It simply rules that his expertise was not sufficient in the narrow field of false confessions for him to be a qualified forensic expert in that specific field.
 

Aardvark154

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What Oagre wrote.

This is an article attempting to smear Dr. Peterson under what basically amounts to one of the very oldest aspects of hearsay: the judge refused to accept him as an expert witness in a Murder Trial -- ispo facto he has no expertise as all --- and surprise, surprise, surprise this piece of pseudo-legal nonsense comes from Press Progress.
 

Charlemagne

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What Oagre wrote.

This is an article attempting to smear Dr. Peterson under what basically amounts to one of the very oldest aspects of hearsay: the judge refused to accept him as an expert witness in a Murder Trial -- ispo facto he has no expertise as all --- and surprise, surprise, surprise this piece of pseudo-legal nonsense comes from Press Progress.
He is known for commenting on things that he doesn't understand and making up crazy things about the psychology of women.
 

oldjones

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What Oagre wrote.

This is an article attempting to smear Dr. Peterson under what basically amounts to one of the very oldest aspects of hearsay: the judge refused to accept him as an expert witness in a Murder Trial -- ispo facto he has no expertise as all --- and surprise, surprise, surprise this piece of pseudo-legal nonsense comes from Press Progress.
Although I thought it went overly long in its preamble, introducing Peterson and his more recent doings, to me the arcticle seemed quite objective, resolutely factual in its coverage and calm and measured in the few areas where the writer's opinion intruded. "Smear" as a description, doesn't accord with what's anyone can read for themselves, but that's your personal opinion.

If you want to impress anyone with your opinion on the journalism, you'll need to highlight the areas in the piece that in any way argue/assert/imply "…that he has no expertise at all" when his credentials as a practising and teaching psychologist were directly quoted from his own corporate website. The judicial opinions, also quoted directly, were very careful to distinguish the specific and limited areas where they found his opinions didn't qualify as expert. Surely you aren't saying it was a 'smear' to repeat the learned judges word for word?

Whether or not Peterson and Shepherd make their current cases against WLU, is immaterial to this neatly-presented history, but the widespread interest in him — <personal opinion font> aroused by her mistreatment and his exploitation of it</font> — commonly elicits this sort of backgrounder at whatever level of journalism one favours. And without commenting on their cases, it seems to me that a psych. prof., opining from his position of eminence in front of his class on the linguistic technicalities of pronouns and their social meanings and consequences, may once again be assuming an expertise in which he's not legitimately qualified.
 

mandrill

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Peterson doesn't exactly improve on better acquaintance. Close colleagues have accused him of having a massive ego, a persecution complex and running what amounts to a cult. These are CLOSE colleagues - as in , CLOSE friends or former close friends. So we are not talking about professional or academic rivals here. They suggest that he has created and revels in much of the drama which currently revolves around him.

His obsessive hate of the Soviet Union and furnishing his house with Soviet regalia so he can stoke that hate every day and seethe a little suggests monomania. As does his dismissive attacks on Marxism. Peterson is not a historian and his dismissals are sweeping and the sort of rants a 1st year university student might write.

His infatuation with Ezra Levant and the alt right is unattractive to say the least and undercuts much of the effect of his "cut the bullshit" attacks on campus PC speech and thought. Lindsey Shepherd appears to share the same infatuation, given her persistent attempts to sponsor Faith Goldy to speak on campus.

I'm willing to give JP the time of day and listen to what he says, but my feelings about the guy are mixed.
 

mandrill

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Maybe you can ask Lindsay about it oagre. She will be appearing at this event on the 18th. I am sure she will get a laugh from your fatuous remarks re Faith Goldy.

https://billc16.brownpapertickets.com/
I thought this was a matter of public record, Smooth.

Why is Goldy repeatedly asked to appear at campus events organized by Sheppard?

And quite frankly, I'm the only guy in this thread trying to be fair to Shepherd and Peterson and not railroad them. So snark is out of place here. If you want to fly the Shepherd / Peterson banner and go all out firing at anyone who doesn't cheer and salute, feel free. If you want to be helpful and explain why and how I may have made a mistake, here's your chance.
 

Smooth60

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I thought this was a matter of public record, Smooth.

Why is Goldy repeatedly asked to appear at campus events organized by Sheppard?

And quite frankly, I'm the only guy in this thread trying to be fair to Shepherd and Peterson and not railroad them. So snark is out of place here. If you want to fly the Shepherd / Peterson banner and go all out firing at anyone who doesn't cheer and salute, feel free. If you want to be helpful and explain why and how I may have made a mistake, here's your chance.
I was mostly concerned by your use of the word 'infatuation'. Esp in regards to Shepherd. When the prevailing attitude on campus within Humanities is Left and they proponents and defenders of such repeatedly quash efforts to have contradictory positions represented I do not think that frivolous characterizations of infatuation are accurate. Goldy was invited to speak once at WLU. That event was closed down during the introduction by a fire alarm. It is not infatuation to try to and reschedule for the benefit of the sold out crowd wanting to hear the speaker. That rescheduled event did not take place because of the outrageous fees required by the venue for security. Goldy has not been asked back by Shepherd to my knowledge. Though Goldy did make a surprise appearance at another event hosted by LSOI unbeknownst to Shepherd ( I was sitting right beside her when Faith posed a question from the back of the hall and I asked her specifically whether she knew she would be there and she said "No." Whe were both chuckling at her appearance though.) So your word "persistent" and "repeatedly" does not to me to seem really accurate to convey an infatuation.

As for the timbre of the the thread I do appreciate you are attempting to be impartial and balanced, though still belying a circumspect attitude. (Not sure if you are referencing the article about Peterson by his coleague and 'friend' that was recently published, but most consider that a childish back stabbing piece by someone with a personal grudge.

I wasn't intending to appear snarky. And to be clear I am not an Peterson fanatic, haven't watched a single vid of his nor read his book (don't need self-help tomes tyvm) and certainly don't align with his type theory on personality or his endorsement of Jung. I will however continue to correct misconceptions about him and Shepherd that Press Progress and others continue to publish.
 

mandrill

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The issue with Goldy is that she adds little to any debate and is not at the level of academic discussion. So why would Shepherd invite her?

Add in Peterson's continued connection with Levant.

It could be that I am connecting dots where none exist, of course. But still..... No reputable academic would associate with either Goldy or Levant and I say that as someone who has little respect or patience with campus PC idiots.

And yes, the article - I don't have a link - was written by a close friend of Peterson, or ex close friend. But your comments are on a "shoot the messenger" level. A personal grudge may or may not exist, but the article raised some concerns. I myself was taken aback when I read Peterson's recent dismissal of Marxism, which I consider a valid political theory, albeit one which has rarely succeeded in real life. Peterson is a psychologist and not a historian.
 

Smooth60

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The issue with Goldy is that she adds little to any debate and is not at the level of academic discussion. So why would Shepherd invite her?

Add in Peterson's continued connection with Levant.

It could be that I am connecting dots where none exist, of course. But still..... No reputable academic would associate with either Goldy or Levant and I say that as someone who has little respect or patience with campus PC idiots.

And yes, the article - I don't have a link - was written by a close friend of Peterson, or ex close friend. But your comments are on a "shoot the messenger" level. A personal grudge may or may not exist, but the article raised some concerns. I myself was taken aback when I read Peterson's recent dismissal of Marxism, which I consider a valid political theory, albeit one which has rarely succeeded in real life. Peterson is a psychologist and not a historian.
Shepherd has addressed inviting Goldy but in essence it was supposed to be a debate but when no one would consent to participate in that the event was then going to be a presentation by Goldy and Q+A afterwards. Never got to see what Goldy had so can't really comment other than I know it was regarding immigration policy and she seemed to be prepared. The event where she attended was also a talk on immigration policy, the name of the guy I now forget, was a condensed version of a longer lecture I think and was not very good really as far as presentations go, and that guy WAS a credible academic/prof. I was underwhelmed. Bottom line, while Peterson himself refused to take the stage with Goldy last year and I am sure other academics do also for the same reasons, it would to my mind be interesting hear exactly what she has to say. ( I have met her twice in person but have not talked with her in any depth on her position so am not a committed fan of hers either).

I am not sure what kind of a connection Peterson has with Levant. I am sure there is no real relationship there and do not think they are somehow in cahoots. I think your connecting dots that don't exist. Guys like Levant, Press Progress/Broadbent Institute, Jesse Brown latch onto public figures for the clicks. I don't think Peterson gives them a second thought unless they try to defame him in the press which is a regularity for him.

One need not be a Historian or Politcal Scientist to have an opinion, with varying degrees of validity, on Marx and its various iterations most recently Cultural Marxism and its proponents like Derrida and Foucault et al, and PoMo. I don't think Peterson tries to represent himself as an expert necessarily in that area, though his critics try to paint him doing that.

I think Peterson considers himself a cultural observer and he merely points out his impressions. Much like MacLuhan might.
 

mandrill

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Well... Goldy is a famous ranter and an all but admitted neo Nazi who was kicked off Levant's show for actually being too far right. She's been discussed in other threads, usually with Essguy giving details of her unappealing exploits and Bud Plug defending her.

If Shepherd had invited a more reputable character - i.e. someone with challenging and iconoclastic views who actually had academic cred - I would be the first to cheer.

What you said re Marxism: That wasn't the take on Peterson that the article we both referenced had.
 

Smooth60

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Well... Goldy is a famous ranter and an all but admitted neo Nazi who was kicked off Levant's show for actually being too far right. She's been discussed in other threads, usually with Essguy giving details of her unappealing exploits and Bud Plug defending her.

If Shepherd had invited a more reputable character - i.e. someone with challenging and iconoclastic views who actually had academic cred - I would be the first to cheer.

What you said re Marxism: That wasn't the take on Peterson that the article we both referenced had.
Not up on the details as to why Ezra gave Goldy the boot, but I don't believe it was that she was/is actually because she is Neo-Nazi wannabe or too far right. I personally believe it was a decision based on optics. Evidence of which is in your own mentioning of it in that way. Goldy went and reported from the inside and was/is being criticized for it, guilt by association, and taking a cavalier attitude towards her decision that makes her detractors irate.

As I said I have not heard her an extended explanation of her politics, though Oren has and he has found them within the bounds of acceptability, though I might not necessarily agree with her. Especially when she goes on one of her faith based rants. I was disappointed I didn't get to hear her presentation the night the fire alarm was pulled.
 

basketcase

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What Oagre wrote.

This is an article attempting to smear Dr. Peterson under what basically amounts to one of the very oldest aspects of hearsay: the judge refused to accept him as an expert witness in a Murder Trial -- ispo facto he has no expertise as all --- and surprise, surprise, surprise this piece of pseudo-legal nonsense comes from Press Progress.
Right. We should smear Peterson for what he actually says, not because a judge ignored him.

Sadly there's angry people out there willing to buy into some of the bullshit he spews. Quite simply he is more interested in the sound of his own voice and the adoration of his incel fans than in any aspect of reality.
 

mandrill

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Not up on the details as to why Ezra gave Goldy the boot, but I don't believe it was that she was/is actually because she is Neo-Nazi wannabe or too far right. I personally believe it was a decision based on optics. Evidence of which is in your own mentioning of it in that way. Goldy went and reported from the inside and was/is being criticized for it, guilt by association, and taking a cavalier attitude towards her decision that makes her detractors irate.

As I said I have not heard her an extended explanation of her politics, though Oren has and he has found them within the bounds of acceptability, though I might not necessarily agree with her. Especially when she goes on one of her faith based rants. I was disappointed I didn't get to hear her presentation the night the fire alarm was pulled.
Her politics have been repeatedly discussed on the board and I take it as proven that she's wacko Far Right and neo Nazi. What Doc A thinks is his own call.

Given FG's lack of any academic credentials or credibility, the fact remains that it's inexplicable why she's invited to an on campus discussion.

Again I say this as someone who would LOVE to whole-heartedly support Peterson and Shepherd. But it's tough to do that when they flirt with equally wacky assholes on the Far right.
 

basketcase

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...
Given FG's lack of any academic credentials or credibility, the fact remains that it's inexplicable why she's invited to an on campus discussion.
It's very explicable. The organizers want the attention and plan to use any objection as "proof" of an evil socialist conspiracy.
 
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