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Do you support the death penalty for Fentanyl dealers?

Do you support the death penalty for Fentanyl dealers?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 55.6%
  • No

    Votes: 8 44.4%

  • Total voters
    18
  • Poll closed .

Conil

Well-known member
Apr 12, 2013
3,453
565
113
Very interesting speech today, Trump called for the price of medicine to go down and the death penalty for drug dealers. Some states are already charging some dealers for murder.



Donald Trump called on Monday for some drug dealers to receive the death penalty, in a new opioids policy rollout in New Hampshire, a state hard hit by the national crisis.
“We’re wasting our time if we don’t get tough with drug dealers and that toughness includes the death penalty,” said Trump in typically combative style.

He later added: “the ultimate penalty has to be the death penalty. Maybe our country is not ready for that, it’s possible, it’s possible.” Trumpsaid “personally I can’t understand that” about those opposed to such drastic measures.

Some states already charge drug dealers with murder if customers overdose. In Florida, people who provide cocaine, heroin or the powerful opioid fentanyl to a person who dies from using the drug in question can be charged with first-degree murder and sentenced to either life in prison or death.

Drug-induced homicide laws, which emerged in the 1980s, are being used more frequently because of the opioids crisis. According to a November 2017 report by the Drug Policy Alliance. However, there is no evidence that such laws reduce drug use.

On Monday Trump was effectively sending a message to prosecutors to be harsher on drug dealers, who traffic in street drugs like heroin and also black market prescription painkillers, such as OxyContin, and various versions of the potent narcotic fentanyl. But he did not call specifically for legislation to expand use of the death penalty for federal drug crimes.

The justice department said the federal death penalty is already available for limited drug-related offenses, including violations of the “drug kingpin” provisions of federal law.

The attorney general, Jeff Sessions, attended the event on Monday and sat next to Melania Trump. The DoJ later issued a statement, saying: “At the Department of Justice, we have made ending the drug epidemic a priority. We will continue to aggressively prosecute drug traffickers and we will use federal law to seek the death penalty wherever appropriate.”

Doug Berman, a law professor at Ohio State University, said it was not clear federal death sentences for drug dealers, even for those whose product causes multiple deaths, would be constitutional. Berman said the issue would be litigated extensively and would have to be definitively decided by the supreme court.
New Hampshire has been hit hard by the opioid crisis, a fact Trump acknowledged last August when he said: “We have the drug lords in Mexico that are knocking the hell out of our country. They are sending drugs to Chicago, Los Angeles, and to New York. Up in New Hampshire – I won New Hampshire because New Hampshire is a drug-infested den – [it] is coming from the southern border.”

The comment caused offence in the state, with the Democratic senator Maggie Hassan responding: “Instead of insulting people in the throes of addiction, [Trump] needs to work across party lines to actually stem the tide of this crisis.”

Though Trump is visiting to lobby for harsher sentencing for opioid-related crimes, New Hampshire is one of many states now pushing criminal justice reform.

On Monday, the state judiciary announced it would review bail policies, after nationwide criticism of courts that serve as de facto debtor’s prisons for people too poor to pay bail.

In 2012, substance use disorders such as opioid dependence cost New Hampshire $284m in criminal justice costs. More than half of jail and prison costs in the state are attributed to drug abuse, according to a report by the advocacy group New Futures. Nationally, 76% of inmates are believed to have substance use disorders, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Trump, who aims to be seen as tough on crime, has repeatedly highlighted his preference for the “ultimate penalty” for drug dealers.

At a Pennsylvania rally this month, Trump told supporters countries like Singapore have fewer issues with drug addiction because they harshly punish dealers. He argued that a person in the US can get the death penalty or life in prison for shooting one person, but a drug dealer who potentially kills thousands can spend little or no time in jail.

“The only way to solve the drug problem is through toughness,” Trump said in remarks he echoed on Monday.
Trump also wants Congress to pass legislation reducing the amount of drugs needed to trigger mandatory minimum sentences for traffickers who knowingly distribute certain opioids, said Andrew Bremberg, Trump’s domestic policy director, who briefed reporters on the White House plan.


Artist Nan Goldin stages opioids protest in Metropolitan Museum Sackler Wing
Read more
The president was joined in New Hampshire by the first lady, Melania Trump, who has shown an interest in the issue, particularly as it pertains to her focus on child welfare.

Trump’s plan concerns law enforcement and interdiction to break the international and domestic flow of drugs into and across the US. It also includes broadening education and awareness, expanding access to treatment and recovery efforts and government funding for efforts to develop non-addictive painkillers. He also said that the Department of Justice was “looking very seriously into bringing major litigation against some of these drug companies.” Leading opioids makers in the US are already engulfed in a flurry of civil litigation brought by cities, counties and states.

Opioids, including prescription opioids, heroin and synthetic drugs such as fentanyl, killed more than 42,000 people in the US in 2016, more than any year on record, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...th-penalty-drug-dealers-opioids-new-hampshire
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
Like that'll work. Never has before, doesn't now, How will His Orangeness make it work, when no one else evrer did?
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
22,447
1,331
113
If anything proves Trumps sheer, undeniable dotardity, its his latest rubbish on this topic. Imagine how violent the drug wars will get with Mexican narco militias trained and armed by the US special forces if they knew they faced the death penalty WOW!!!
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,881
3,509
113
Start charging doctors with drug dealing. That will help.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,069
1
0
And yet,... after Trump mouthing off about North Korea,... some positive movement.

The same tactic is used in business, stir things up,... to get something,... anything going.

Nothing is happening now,... other than feeding druggies.
 

Conil

Well-known member
Apr 12, 2013
3,453
565
113
Like that'll work. Never has before, doesn't now, How will His Orangeness make it work, when no one else evrer did?
We don't know it doesn't work, seems like in the Philippines there is less trafficking. :)

Plus its cheaper than keeping them in jail for life. Just change the laws to accelerate death penalties and you save millions.
 

Conil

Well-known member
Apr 12, 2013
3,453
565
113
If anything proves Trumps sheer, undeniable dotardity, its his latest rubbish on this topic. Imagine how violent the drug wars will get with Mexican narco militias trained and armed by the US special forces if they knew they faced the death penalty WOW!!!
Ah, the CIA conspiracies. The gangs in Mexico just show how far it can go if you don't do something. Mind you the government is corrupt like crazy there.
 

managee

Banned
Jun 19, 2013
1,731
2
0
His ideas are just asinine if they’re actually his. He must have thought it was a good idea, regardless.

Increasing the criminality of something as addictive as fentanyl will only discourage witnesses / semi-innocent bystanders to OD’s from calling for help, practically guaranteeing more accidental deaths, and put police, innocent bystanders, non-violent addicts (sic) at incredibly elevated risk of facing violence during transactions.

The cost of prosecuting someone under these laws would seem to be likely to be counterproductive.

Why not declare war on addiction?
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
22,447
1,331
113
According to you article: Some of the cartel's initial members were elite Mexican troops, trained in the early 1990s by America’s 7th Special Forces Group.
They trained troops that became drug dealers. Its not that the US is training drug gangs.
The members are trained and armed and equipped by the US, I never said the US was arming drug gangs on an ongoing basis. Just another chapter of the drug war going terribly awry
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
24,673
6,836
113
It doesn't matter what he proposed. The arena is so politicized no initiative will get an honest look. For the record, I'm against the death penalty.
 

IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
10,888
2,167
113
I thought unlike other street drugs, family doctors are a large part of the problem.
 

managee

Banned
Jun 19, 2013
1,731
2
0
I thought unlike other street drugs, family doctors are a large part of the problem.
Which begs the question, how and where will he draw the line in the sand between over-prescribing to a patient vs. distribution? It’ll need to have some pretty clear rules, as who would want to be a pharmacist knowing that handing over a prescribed bottle of pills could land you in the electric chair?

Will Duterte Trump still be “winning” when he fries his first octogenarian for selling her prescription to afford food?

What should the penalty be for big pharma for overproducing the stuff relative to the actual medically warranted demand?
 

LT56

Banned
Feb 16, 2013
1,604
1
0
There is no evidence to support Singapore’s claim of a low rate of drug abuse

Trump take note – why Singapore’s claim that the death penalty works for drug offences is fake news


Speaking before the country’s parliament, Singapore’s minister for home affairs, K Shanmugam, extolled the country’s success in fighting drugs. He attributed these results to Singapore’s harsh drug laws, which include the use of capital punishment.

It may seem surprising to the uninitiated that Singapore has the death penalty for drug crimes. But, as the minister said: “Our penalties are severe because we want to deter such offences”.

Singapore is one of a tiny number of countries classified by Harm Reduction International (HRI) as “high application” states in the use of capital punishment for drugs. This means that death sentences and executions are a regular part of the criminal justice system. Indeed, there have been two executions for drug offences just this month, killings which were condemned by UN human rights officials.

The idea that harsh drug laws such as the death penalty are effective is one actively promoted by Singapore. And it is a belief now allegedly being adopted by US president Donald Trump. Given Trump’s notorious concern with what he considers “fake news”, it is somewhat surprising he has embraced one of the more dubious claims in global drug control – the myth that Singapore’s harsh penalties have nearly eliminated drug use and drug crime.

The Singapore myth

Singapore consistently claims that it has one of the lowest rates of drug use in the world. Yet the government does not publish reliable data on drug use, making this statement impossible to independently verify.

As far back as 2008, the reference group to the United Nations on HIV and injecting drug use found Singapore to be one of the only countries in Asia without reliable data on rates of drug injecting. More recently in 2016, HRI published its global state of harm reduction, which similarly found almost no reliable data on levels of drug use in Singapore.

Instead, the government typically cites information from the world drug report, published annually by the UN Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC). However, rather than being independently produced, this report reflects data provided by governments.

This practice – which I have long referred to as data laundering – puts a UN seal of legitimacy on Singaporean government data that is at best unverified, and at worst politically expedient. UNODC admits that the vast disparity in data quality and collection methods between countries “affect the reliability, quality and comparability” of the data in the report, making comparisons between countries of little value.

Even the Singaporean minister’s recent speech did not offer any figures on drug-related crime, sticking instead to a few emotive stories about the “dangers of drugs”. The government’s failure to provide transparent data creates huge doubts about any claims of effectiveness, and raises the question of whether their statements represent anything more than political “spin” to justify controversial drug policies.

Missing data

The only data Singapore does publish on drug use are figures on what it terms “drug abusers” – people who come into contact with the health or criminal justice system for drug treatment. Given that UNODC estimates the number of people who require treatment globally is only 10% of all people who use drugs, we can see how these government figures (even if accurate) are a dramatic under-representation of levels of drug use in a country.

What about Singapore’s success in reducing drug-related crime? As with data on drug use, published figures on drug-related crime are neither robust nor transparent, again making such claims impossible to independently verify. The annual statistical crime brief published by the Singapore police force does not provide any data on drug-related offences. Nor does the annual report of Singapore’s central narcotics bureau – an odd omission given the bureau’s practice of regularly reporting major trafficking arrests on its website.

This lack of data certainly does not reflect a lack of crime. The government admits 80% of people in prison are drug offenders. This, coupled with the fact that Singapore has the seventh highest rate of incarceration per capita in Asia, does not mesh easily with the government’s claims of low levels of drug-related crime either.

Interestingly, what the narcotics bureau’s 2016 report does show is that seizures of both methamphetamine and cannabis increased by approximately 20% over the previous year, while heroin seizures remain basically level. Hardly indicators of a shrinking drug market.

Clearly the statistics used to promote the Singapore myth either do not exist, or fall apart under scrutiny. As a result, any attempt to use the Singapore model as evidence of the effectiveness of the death penalty for drug offences is ludicrous. Given the unprecedented overdose crisis in the US, Americans deserve an evidence-based response. Pursuing myth-based drug policies will only make the problem worse.

http://theconversation.com/trump-ta...ty-works-for-drug-offences-is-fake-news-92305
 

LT56

Banned
Feb 16, 2013
1,604
1
0
Getting “tough on drug dealers” has been tried before during the US’s War on Drugs. It resulted primarily in the arrest and imprisonment of small time drug dealers in poor black communities. It did nothing to reduce drug use.

The death penalty has been proven to have no deterrent effect on people committing other crimes; I don’t see any reason to believe this would be any different.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
81,432
18,097
113
I thought unlike other street drugs, family doctors are a large part of the problem.
Yup, that's one of the reasons that this Trump policy is incredibly stupid.
He's borrowing from Duterte, yet the drugs from this case are coming from legit drug companies, mostly from one family.
And its not an immigration issue at all, the drugs are not coming from Mexico, for instance.
 
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