Doug Ford - no layoffs and 6B in savings!!!

[oldjones]

Kathleen Wynne added 360,000 new government workers during her tenure.

I'm really curious where that number came from. Back when Wynne beat Hudak, who was so keen on cutting that payroll, the StatsCan numbers being batted around were something like 88,000 as I recall, and that was the entire Ontario public sector, not the narrower category of 'government workers'.

Assuming she expanded the swivel service at a steady pace, to add all 360,000 in five years she'd have had to hire 70,000 or so every year, which would have nearly doubled the work force in the first year alone. But she'd have had to keep hiring (and paying, and finding offices and desks and shops and workbenches) at the same pace every year since. When the entire Canadian economy adds 50,000 jobs it hits the headlines; so you can see why I'm asking.

 

[K Douglas]

Add in 2% for inflation and you're looking at 6%, which isn't so easy.
The man who is responsible for the $3 billion subway stop doesn't have a good rep for being frugal, by the way.
And yes, Doug is tarred with Rob, through his support and enabling.

Clearly math isn't your strong suit FF. Good grief.

 

[nottyboi]

Well, all he has to do is cancel the proposed electrification of the Metrolinx railway corridors dreamed up by the same people who brought you Ontario's green energy program and you will save 5 billion dollars.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the diesel GO trains we currently have and no one other than a handful of enviro-weenies will care.

Nothing wrong in that they blast carcinogenic dust thorough out the route and poison the riders in the train?

 

[james t kirk]

Nothing wrong in that they blast carcinogenic dust thorough out the route and poison the riders in the train?

That was only the first car and less than walking down the street.

The point is cancelling electrification is a no brainer and will save the province 5 billion, which means it's more like 10 billion in reality.

No one will miss what they don't have.

I'm all for building subways and GO infrastructure and LRTs, but I honestly don't see the need to electrify the corridor.

 

[james t kirk]

I'm really curious where that number came from. Back when Wynne beat Hudak, who was so keen on cutting that payroll, the StatsCan numbers being batted around were something like 88,000 as I recall, and that was the entire Ontario public sector, not the narrower category of 'government workers'.

Assuming she expanded the swivel service at a steady pace, to add all 360,000 in five years she'd have had to hire 70,000 or so every year, which would have nearly doubled the work force in the first year alone. But she'd have had to keep hiring (and paying, and finding offices and desks and shops and workbenches) at the same pace every year since. When the entire Canadian economy adds 50,000 jobs it hits the headlines; so you can see why I'm asking.

According to Statistics Canada, the province’s manufacturing sector has shed some 347,000 workers since 2003, when the Liberals took office under Dalton McGuinty. During the same period, the number employed in government-driven sectors like health care, social assistance and educational services has risen by 368,000, while provincial debt has soared to $307 billion.

Link:

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/how-kathleen-wynne-has-ontario-going-backwards/

 

[james t kirk]

^^^
The liberals have been fiscally reckless (not irresponsible, that's too kind, reckless is a more accurate description).

For this reason alone I will no longer vote for them.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Only if you have a plan to get the work done without the workers you don't replace.

If he determines there is certain work that no longer needs to be done by government, then he doesn't need anyone to get that eliminated work done.

To give you an example, look at the size of the federal and provincial bureaucracies for the agri-food sector. They're enormous relative to the actual size of the agri-food industry. I suspect there are many positions that could be eliminated as people retire without any noticeable difference.

 

[apoptygma]

If he determines there is certain work that no longer needs to be done by government, then he doesn't need anyone to get that eliminated work done.

To give you an example, look at the size of the federal and provincial bureaucracies for the agri-food sector. They're enormous relative to the actual size of the agri-food industry. I suspect there are many positions that could be eliminated as people retire without any noticeable difference.

Is that an educated opinion, or a clueless shot in the dark?
Do you want to eat food from an industry that is inadequately governed?

 

[jcpro]

Doug's looking for an over all cut of 4% from the Ontario's government. That's nothing after a decade and a half of constant expansion.

 

[SharksWithLasers]

People should look at the Provincial Fiscal Tables first.

Canadian Federal and Provincial Fiscal Tables
http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/provincial-forecasts/prov_fiscal.pdf

 

[JohnLarue]

In fact, what Ford has been saying doesn't seem all that implausible. It depends on what he decides to do and over what time frame.

It's important to remember that Ontario has a huge public sector workforce that is aging and that has an incredibly generous pension plan. A number of positions could be reduced over a four-year mandate through attrition.

Attrition, zero increases, re-rating some positions & pushing benefit costs including pensions onto the employees.
$ 6 B in four years is easily doable.

The province can not sustain the stupidity of the last 15 years.
It has to be done or the hard crash down the road will be far worse for public employees.

At least under Fords plan they get to continue earning a paycheck.

It may be too late already if rates start to move up quickly

 

[Frankfooter]

People should look at the Provincial Fiscal Tables first.

Canadian Federal and Provincial Fiscal Tables
http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/provincial-forecasts/prov_fiscal.pdf

Thanks for that.
Ontario looks to be doing ok according to that report.
Our program spending/gdp is the lowest in the country, even debt to gpd is middle of the pack.
(not that they are really great numbers, but we're not the big spenders or the big dept makers of Canada)

Larue, check those numbers.

 

[SharksWithLasers]

Thanks for that.
Ontario looks to be doing ok according to that report.
Our program spending/gdp is the lowest in the country, even debt to gpd is middle of the pack.
(not that they are really great numbers, but we're not the big spenders or the big dept makers of Canada)

Larue, check those numbers.

For what it's worth, here are the recent Premiers' tenures: Bob Rae 1990-1994, Mike Harris 1995-2002. Dalton McGuinty 2003-2013

 

[onthebottom]

Thanks for that.
Ontario looks to be doing ok according to that report.
Our program spending/gdp is the lowest in the country, even debt to gpd is middle of the pack.
(not that they are really great numbers, but we're not the big spenders or the big dept makers of Canada)

Larue, check those numbers.

Check debt per capita

 

[Frankfooter]

Check debt per capita

That one is high, agreed.
But the rest aren't that far off the rest of the country, low bar that it is.

 

[JohnLarue]

Thanks for that.
Ontario looks to be doing ok according to that report.
Our program spending/gdp is the lowest in the country, even debt to gpd is middle of the pack.
(not that they are really great numbers, but we're not the big spenders or the big dept makers of Canada)

Larue, check those numbers.

Are you out of your mind ?

$300 B in debt, deficits for the past 9 years, no plan for balance & the debt is projected to increase to $350 B by 2020
The provinces debt burden has doubled in the past decade
The province spends $12 B on interest every year - This is currently increasing 5% every year & is currently half of what is spent on education


So what happens when ( not if, when) interest rates double from their historically low levels?
At the same time that is happening, the baby boomer continue to mature rapidly increasing the demand for healthcare

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/blo...-will-make-ontarios-debt-problems-even-worse/

Ontario is NOT doing OK
This is going to be a massive problem which will adversely impact most of the provinces population

You are completely clueless

 

[Frankfooter]

Are you out of your mind ?

Debt is high, but Ontario doesn't spend as much as other provinces.
The real story is not about taxes but about federal transfers that have hurt Ontario.
What those numbers say is that Ontario is spending less on services then most provinces.

 

[Polaris]

Debt is high, but Ontario doesn't spend as much as other provinces.
The real story is not about taxes but about federal transfers that have hurt Ontario.
What those numbers say is that Ontario is spending less on services then most provinces.

The reason is that the debt just too damn high.

 

[Insidious Von]

Is that an educated opinion, or a clueless shot in the dark?
Do you want to eat food from an industry that is inadequately governed?

Dom't be picking on Moviefan fuji, a little E-Coli is good for the digestive system - gets the juices flowing.

And if diesel is as insignificant as Tiberius claims, why is VW being taken to the woodshed over their emission standards? Clean diesel, I knew it was a hoax. The Economist had egg on its face for buying into the scam.

 

[oldjones]

According to Statistics Canada, the province’s manufacturing sector has shed some 347,000 workers since 2003, when the Liberals took office under Dalton McGuinty. During the same period, the number employed in government-driven sectors like health care, social assistance and educational services has risen by 368,000, while provincial debt has soared to $307 billion.

Link:

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/how-kathleen-wynne-has-ontario-going-backwards/

So in her five years Wynne has more than made up for the job-losses in manufacturing by hiring all the factory hands laid-off in the decade and a half since 2003 and more, is that it? And it didn't make headlines, nor did she boast about it?

Sounds pretty unlikely to me. I said why above, and this version makes the 360,000 even less believable. If Macleans cited the actual StatsCan report so we could see it for ourselves, maybe. But they didn't. Did you find it? I certainly haven't found anything like it. Best so far is that Hudak vs. Wynne number of a swivel service of less than 100,000, and that is StatsCan.