Gerald Stanley found not guilty in death of Colten Boushie
- Thread starter Charlemagne
- Start date
I think it was Jerry Agar this morning on the radio interviewing a lawyer about the jury system in reference to this. The lawyer mentioned how you aren't supposed to exclude a person based on race. However, he indicated the defense may have seen someone who is indigenous and believed they would be sympathetic to Boushie. Jury selection is basically an exercise in stacking the deck for your side. Each side does it. Suppose the situation were reversed and an indigenous man shot a white guy. The prosecution would try and exclude as many indigenous people as possible while the defense would want as many of them on the jury as possible.
Wow, a lot of BS all around. The various opinions of Six Nations people completely wash over what transpired before Colten was shot. Such sensationalism about how he was innocent, this means open season on indigenous people, that he was there politely asking for help. Absolutely sickening. I don't think it's wrong to be upset but save the bias opinions for the uneducated who think they hold any weight. The moral of this story is "Engaging in criminal activity sometimes can result in injury/death". The fact that GS got off is irrelevant to the reality that doing stupid things is risky.
The editorial was a little more palatable but again, sensational. I will say I didn't know that an ambulance wasn't called and GS and family did nothing to try and help the guy after he was shot. Cold as fuck. Should have been jailed for something.
The system isn't perfect and there's holes all over. If police/law enforcement handled the criminal activity better, if Boushie and Co. came politely for help instead of hostile and trying to steal, if no guns were involved, if GS wasn't an idiot who handled guns properly, if the jury was more representative, etc. - different narrative than the current one.
The evidence was that Stanley had a 1947 Tokarev pistol loaded with sixtyfive-year old combloc ammo, probably the worst combination of firearms and ammo for a life and death defense situation. He claimed that the gun fired on it's own as a result of a hangfire (slow burn). Two warning shots were fired skyward, he believed the gun was empty after pulling the trigger again, removed the mag, but it discharged a moment later.
From CTV news: "Stanley told court he took the clip out of his Tokarev handgun after firing two or three warning shots straight into the air. He recalled the gun fired the first two times he pulled the trigger, but said he doesn’t think the gun fired with the third trigger pull.
He thought the gun was disarmed when Boushie was shot. The gun fired when he was reaching his left arm across the SUV’s steering wheel to turn off the ignition, he said.
“It just went off," Stanley said.
His right hand was holding the gun and went into the vehicle. His finger wasn’t on the trigger, he claimed.
“I couldn’t believe what just happened. Everything just went silent,” he testified..'' - https://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/stanley-says-he-thought-gun-was-disarmed-when-boushie-shot-1.3788046
Given the fact that this type of surplus old ammo is probably unstable and very unreliable, and that a bulged spent shell case was recovered at the scene indicating the gun fired out of battery with the slide partially opened, and the gun itself was probably a hunk of junk, it's possible that this was a tragic accidental hang-fire discharge of a round that was still in the chamber. Unfortunately we will never know the truth.
Juries only need a Reasonable Doubt to acquit.
Thanks. That was interesting. Do you know if this evidence was called from a firearms expert at trial?
First Nations are in full bullshit spin mode around this incident and I have read other ludicrous posts on FB and elsewhere saying much the same thing.
The Crown's firearms expert testified that he could not explain the bulged cartridge. Whether the Crown's or Defence expert explained the bit about the Tokarev and the aged ammo being unreliable is unclear other than that info about the make and type was included. The judge made remarks about it during the charge to the jury. Did you read that?
I must admit that i have been going off 3rd hand reports and have not had time to read any of the original proceedings.
The judge would need to have properly qualified and sworn expert evidence about the Tokarev and the ammo. He couldn't guess or go by his own reading on the point.
Here is one section of the Charge to the Jury.
"Although both experts did not know what caused the bulge both theorized that one possible explanation would be a hang fire or delayed reaction."
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...n-boushie-jury-put-yourself-in-a-jurors-shoes
If the Crown's expert witness cannot explain and goes so far as to admit that it is possible that the defence explanation of hang fire is possible then I think your fucking case is sunk wouldn't you think?
I think that contributes mightily to "reasonable doubt" and probably helped a lot to obtain the acquittal.
Was reading reaction this morning and the Gladue case was mentioned. For those who don't know, the government passed a law that jail should be a last resort and background/circumstances considered. Gladue was the first case to test this law.
What's sad is the summary stated Gladue was 19-year old indigenous woman with alcohol and other issues and she killed her husband for SUSPECTED ADULTERY. She got 3 years for manslaughter and the case was appealed saying the judge didin't follow the law about sentencing. Does anyone else think it's outrageous that the big case involved killing somebody else for essentially nothing? I couldn't believe it.
I checked out the case and I was surprised at how low the sentence was as well. But Gladue was actually NOT A GLADUE CASE. The trial judge didn't apply the special sentencing provisions for aboriginal offenders, as Gladue lived off reserve. He gave her 3 years based purely on general sentencing principles. The SCC used the Gladue case to discuss aboriginal sentencing generally, but didn't alter the judge's original sentence.
Gladue was highly intoxicated and very young - 19 years. And she pleaded guilty quickly. These seem to be the reasons and all the levels of court accepted them as being a logical basis for the sentence.
And this woman in London, Ontario tried to stop an Indigenous man from stealing her truck and she was the one who ended up dead. Will be interesting to see how this trial ends up when it eventually comes to court
http://www.lfpress.com/2018/02/18/b...ed-near-brantford-for-feb-8-fatal-hit-and-run
http://www.lfpress.com/2018/02/18/b...ed-near-brantford-for-feb-8-fatal-hit-and-run
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...ie-case/ar-BBJFrBe?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp
Poll finds Canadians divided over verdict in Colten Boushie case
A new poll by Angus Reid says Canadians are divided over the decision made by the jury in the Colten Boushie case.
Poll finds Canadians divided over verdict in Colten Boushie case
A new poll by Angus Reid says Canadians are divided over the decision made by the jury in the Colten Boushie case.
The Saskatchewan numbers are highly indicative.
Frankly, I'd say any numbers indicating less than two-thirds of the people believe a verdict of the courts was fair and proper is cause for concern. And for taking action to restore the trust in the law and justice sytem.
Haven't read every page in this thread - but just wondering if any of the people who buy the verdict and the hangfire explanation are proponents of Trump's idea of arming teachers in schools. Never mind the lack of training, just think about the probability of a tragic "accident" vs the probability of stopping an attack. That alone would seem to be enough to dismiss the idea. Presumably, Stanley knew how to safely operate his weapon - yet he killed a man ("accidentally").
I also wonder if the gun-toting defenders of the verdict here all go around and point guns at other people?
Hangfires are rare but happen - of course, one of this length is extremely rare - maybe even impossible to reproduce. They occur with older ammunition when the primer is activated but there is a delay before the propellent ignites. (vs a misfire which is a complete failure). Usually a hangfire is measured in fractions of seconds - but can sometime be longer. But long enough time to "check the weapon", run out, etc - would be very very very rare. Further - if he checked his weapon and was sure that it was a misfire (as opposed to a hangfire) - he should have ejected the cartridge. Any well trained, knowledgeable gun owner would know not to ever point a loaded gun at anything unless you were planning on shooting it - and after a misfire or hangfire - you should wait, and don't even eject the bullet until you're sure that it's not going to fire. (Unless you're in the military and in a firefight - in which case you tap rack and continue shooting.) So this verdict is troubling and anybody who buys it, should also acknowledge the stupidity of arming teachers if they buy that this was an "accident". Also - given the budget and pay of teachers in the U.S. - they may be more inclined to buy cheap or surplus ammunition - which increases the odds of misfires, and hangfires.
