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basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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...
Why don't we look at today's news and see who is violent.
Israel shooting at Palestinian protesters, who were protesting after a squatter killed a Palestinian....
The actual story is that Palestinians attacked a bunch of kids out for a hike and one of their armed escorts shot at them. Thankfully a second group of Palestinians chased away the stone throwers that had chased the kids into a cave.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/army-...-first-soldiers-took-20-minutes-to-find-them/

I would prefer that the adults weren't armed and that they didn't shoot at the stone throwers but I'd also prefer that Palestinians didn't attack a group of kids.

Of course you won't criticize Palestinian stone throwers.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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I am claiming that you are a fraud as long as you defend violence instead of criticizing Palestinian factions that reject the concept of peace.
Here's the list of recent violence, why aren't you criticizing it?
Israel shooting at Palestinian protesters, who were protesting after a squatter killed a Palestinian.
https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=779553
Israeli forces shot at farmers.
https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=779554
Israeli forces shot at protesters.
https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=779552
Israeli squatters shot at Palestinian farmers, killing one.
https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=779546
More squatters attacked a Palestinian village.
https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=779547

Who is the violent one?
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Here's the list of recent violence, why aren't you criticizing it?
I unabashedly oppose the violent settlers just like I criticize the violent Palestinians. When it comes to governance though, there is only one side that commits, promotes, and pays for terrorism.

Will you ever criticize the Palestinians who routinely attack Israeli civilians for simply being Jews?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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The actual story is that Palestinians attacked a bunch of kids .
I see, so yet another Palestinian farmer is shot while working on his farm by a group of Israeli 'civilians' and you once again blame the farmer for being shot.
A group of Israeli teens were hiking in Palestine and claim to have had stones thrown at them by Palestinian youths, so they instead shot a farmer who was working on his land.

You buy any story the IDF tells you, don't you?

The UN reported in August that after a three-year decline of settler attacks on Palestinians, the first half of 2017 showed a major increase in such attacks, with 89 incidents being documented so far this year, representing an 88 percent increase compared to 2016. The attacks during this time period have led to the deaths of three Palestinians.
Palestinian activists and rights groups have long accused Israel of fostering a “culture of impunity” for Israeli settlers and soldiers committing violent acts against Palestinians.
Israeli authorities served indictments in only 8.2 percent of cases of Israeli settlers committing anti-Palestinian crimes in the occupied West Bank in the past three years, according to Israeli NGO Yesh Din.
http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=779546

Once again a civilian is killed and you excuse the killing of a civilian.
You are supporting terrorism.
Israeli settlers open fire on Palestinian farmers, killing 1, injuring another

A Palestinian farmer was shot dead by Israeli settlers on Thursday while he was working on his land near the village of Qusra, to the south of Nablus in the northern occupied West Bank, according to local sources.
An official who monitors settlement activity in the northern West Bank told Ma'an that Israeli settlers from the illegal Yash Kod settlement outpost raided Palestinian lands near Qusra and attacked a farmer, Mahmoud Ahmad Zaal Odeh, 48, as he was working the land.
https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=779546
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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I see, ...
About time. Palestinians attack a bunch of kids and you complain that one of the adults defended themselves.

From a journalistic level, you have admitted that the Israeli press is far more free than the Palestinian press.

From a logical level we have two possibilities. One is a guy taking a bunch of kids out for a hike randomly decided to shoot a farmer. The other is a bunch of Palestinians decided to attack Jews. Considering the latter is a regular occurrence, the Israeli reports seem far more credible than reports from a news agency run by what you characterize as a weak, corrupt government.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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More significantly, I openly and freely criticize the violent settlers. Why do you find it so hard to criticize violent Palestinians?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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From a logical level we have two possibilities. One is a guy taking a bunch of kids out for a hike randomly decided to shoot a farmer. The other is a bunch of Palestinians decided to attack Jews. Considering the latter is a regular occurrence, the Israeli reports seem far more credible than reports from a news agency run by what you characterize as a weak, corrupt government.
First, lets clarify where you think this happened.
Do you think this happened inside Israel or inside Palestine?

If you think its inside Palestine, then why are armed children walking around on Palestinian farms?
Is that something you think armed children should be doing, walking on foreign lands while armed?

And lets clarify what the reports have said:

As reported by Israeli media:
Kusai Abed Almanam, a member of the regional council of Qusra, told Haaretz that the Palestinian killed in the altercations with Israeli settlers "is known in the village as a farmer who often tends to his land."
According to Almanam, "Mahmoud Zael Oudeh left [to go to his] plot of land, which is located several kilometers away from Esh Kodesh. He was with his wife so the whole version claiming they attacked the settlers is a lie. Such a man and his wife could not attack a group of fifteen settlers."
Almanam added that "one of the settlers shot him and he was gravely injured and died at a local clinic."
Later on Thursday, Israeli settlers clashed with Qusra residents, who said the settlers threw stones at them.
The Palestinian Red Crescent reported that six Palestinians were wounded in the incident on Thursday evening, three of them moderately. A soldier suffered minor injuries in the clashes, according to the Israeli army, from a Molotov cocktail thrown by a Palestinian. Army troops and the police used crowd-control devices against the Palestinians.
Abed Alazim Wadi, the head of the Qusra local council, told Haaretz, "Settlers damaged property and homes under cover of army forces in the area." He added, "Some of the homes are at a distance from the village, and damage was caused to a number of homes and cars as a result of settler aggression."
This is not the first clash between settlers and Palestinians in the area. In January 2014 ten masked settlers from the Esh Kodesh outpost entered the village of Qusra. They were surrounded and beaten by dozens of Palestinians. Qusra residents who tried to defend the settlers contacted the Israeli army, and soldiers arrived on the scene to evacuate them.**
read more: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.825886
A bunch of illegal squatters went out, apparently fully armed, to take a 'hike' for a bar mitzvah on Palestinian owned lands outside of Israel's borders.
The illegal squatters or 'kids', claim to have been attacked by Palestinian youths who, let it be said, have a right to defend their land.
The squatter 'kids' ended up attacking a farmer and his son, killing one and injuring another, who the IDF held, but not this crowd of kids who they claimed threw stones at them.

And you are defending this?
Note that Israel has now arrested the Israeli who murdered the farmer.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.826204



And lets look at how Israel responds to other Israeli squatters who went out and threw rocks at Palestinians afterwards:
Hafeth Saleh, head of the village council in Asira al-Qibliya, told Ma’an that more than 50 armed Israeli settlers from the nearby illegal Yitzhar settlement attacked the eastern area of the village, throwing rocks at villagers and opening fire in the air before clashes erupted between Palestinians and the settlers.
Saleh added that Israeli forces immediately intervened and fired tear gas and stun grenades at villagers, causing several of them to suffer from severe tear-gas inhalation.
https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=779547

Here we have Israeli's throwing rocks at Palestinians and the IDF came and also attacked more Palestinians.
How do you defend the IDF supporting and aiding rock throwing by Israelis yet still complain about Palestinians throwing rocks, and all inside what should be Palestine?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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About time. Palestinians attack a bunch of kids and you complain that one of the adults defended themselves.

From a journalistic level, you have admitted that the Israeli press is far more free than the Palestinian press.

From a logical level we have two possibilities. One is a guy taking a bunch of kids out for a hike randomly decided to shoot a farmer. The other is a bunch of Palestinians decided to attack Jews. Considering the latter is a regular occurrence, the Israeli reports seem far more credible than reports from a news agency run by what you characterize as a weak, corrupt government.
More significantly, I openly and freely criticize the violent settlers. Why do you find it so hard to criticize violent Palestinians?
An Israeli shot and killed a Palestinian farmer working on his farm in Palestine.
You claim you criticize violent settlers but here you are defending murder instead.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.826204
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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An Israeli shot and killed a Palestinian farmer working on his farm in Palestine....
Except he likely wasn't just working on his farm. The kids were attacked by a mob of stone throwers. I already stated I'm against armed settlers but I am even more against Palestinians who attack Israelis simply for being Jews.

Once again, the Palestinian attacks were the first event. No more Palestinian attacks and no more need for armed settlers and no more need for force to stop attackers.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Except he likely wasn't just working on his farm.
Now you're making shit up to defend terrorism, the attacking and killing of a civilian farmer as he worked on his field.
That's disgusting.

Those illegal squatters aren't 'defending themselves' when they march fully armed onto someone else's land.
That would be like you walking up onto smallcock's porch, breaking into his kitchen and then claiming self defense when you shoot him after he yells at you to leave.

Even Israel arrested the guy, yet here you are still defending murder and terrorism while claiming you have the moral high ground.
Disgusting.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Now you're making shit up to defend terrorism,....
Says the guy who refuses to comment on routine Palestinian violence against random Jews.

It's quite common to see Palestinians shooting, throwing rocks, or firebombs at random Jews but almost unheard of for Israelis to randomly shoot random Palestinians, especially while hiking with kids. In fact there have previously been attacks on Jewish hikers.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/isra...at-israeli-hikers-who-enter-west-bank-village
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4962619,00.html
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.814278
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.823342
https://www.timesofisrael.com/army-rescues-3-israelis-after-palestinians-torch-their-car-in-nablus/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/pa-forces-rescue-4-settlers-who-entered-palestinian-village/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/two-jewish-israelis-rescued-from-east-jerusalem-arab-neighborhood/
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Says the guy who refuses to comment on routine Palestinian violence against random Jews.

It's quite common to see Palestinians shooting, throwing rocks, or firebombs at random Jews but almost unheard of for Israelis to randomly shoot random Palestinians, especially while hiking with kids. In fact there have previously been attacks on Jewish hikers.
Bullshit, sir, bullshit.

I note that your references have to dig back months to find examples of Palestinians defending their land from foreign invasion, which you take offence to.
Really, unless you're arguing that those trespassers were really walking through apartheid Israel, they have no right to be there in the first place.

But once again, lets take a look at the last week of reported Israeli actions against Palestinians, courtesy of PCHR.org.
4 Civilians, including 2 children and international activist, were wounded in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Israeli forces conducted 68 incursions into Palestinian communities in the West Bank and 5 similar incursions in Jerusalem.
44 civilians, including 12 children and 2 women, were arrested.
12 of them, including 6 children, were arrested in Jerusalem and its suburbs.
Israeli authorities continue to make a Jewish majority in occupied East Jerusalem.
A house in Beit Hanina was demolished, and another civilian was forced to self-demolish his house in Um Touba village.
8 civilians’ cars were confiscated from Beit Xa village while construction materials and fuels were entered only in coordination with the civil adminsrtation.
Israeli forces continue settlement activities in the West Bank
A barrack used for ferrous metals was demolished in Hebron.
Settlers attacked Palestinian farmers and shepherds, east of Yata, south of Hebron.
Israeli forces continued to target the Palestinian fishermen in the Gaza Strip Sea.
3 shooting incidents targeting the Palestinian fishing boats occurred in the Northern Gaza Strip, but no casualties were reported.
Israeli forces turned the West Bank into cantons and continued to impose the illegal closure on the Gaza Strip for the 10th
Dozens of temporary checkpoints were established in the West Bank and others were re-established to obstruct the movement of Palestinian civilians.
5 Palestinian civilians, including 2 children, were arrested at the checkpoints in the West Bank.




Summary

Israeli violations of international law and international humanitarian law in the oPt continued during the reporting period (23 – 28 November 2017).



Shooting:

During the reporting period, Israeli forces wounded 2 Palestinian civilians, including a child, and an interntional activist in the West Bank while wounded a child in the Gaza Strip. In the Gaze Strip, They also continued to chase Palestinian fishermen in the Sea.



In the West Bank, on 24 November 2017, A German activist was wounded with a bullet to the right side of his back while participating in Ni’lin weekly protest, west of Ramallah.



On 26 November 2017, 2 Palestinian civilians, including a child, were wounded when Israeli forces opened fire at dozens of students in al-‘Aroub refugee camp, north of Hebron, as the latter organized a peaceful protest in commemoration of the killing of child Khalid al-Jawabrah near the bypass road in the civinty of the refugee camp.



In the same context, Israeli forces continued to use force against the protests organized by Palestinian civilians and international human rights defenders against the annexation wall, confiscation of lands and crimes of settlement expansion. During the reporting period, dozens of Palestinian civilians, international human rights defenders and Israelis organized protests in Ni’lin and Bil’in villages, west of Ramallah, al-Nabi Saleh village, northwest of the city, and Kafer Qadoum village, northeast of Qalqiliyah, in protest against the annexation wall and settlement activities. Israeli forces forcibly dispersed the protests. As a result, many of the protesters suffered tear gas inhalation while others sustained bruises due to being beaten up by the Israeli soldiers.



In the Gaza Strip, the border areas with Israeli witnessed protests against the ongoing and unjust Israeli closured against the Gaza population. During those protests, the Israeli forces used forces against the protesters. as a result, a child was wounded, east of Jabalia in the northern Gaza Strip.



In the Gaza Strip, as part of targeting fishermen in the sea, PCHR monitored the Israeli naval forces’ escalation against fishermen in the Gaza Sea although it was announced that the Gaza fishermen are allowed to sail to 9 nautical miles instead of 6. This proves that the Israeli forces continue their policy of targeting fishermen in their livelihoods. During the reporting period, Israeli gunboats chased fishing boats and opened fire at them 3 times; 1 of them in the north-western Beit Lahia and the others in the western Soudaniyah area, west of Jabalia in the northern Gaza Strip.



Incursions:



During the reporting period, Israeli forces conducted at least 68 military incursions into Palestinian communities in the West Bank while they conducted 5 incursions into Jerusalem and its suburbs. During those incursions, Israeli forces arrested at least 32 Palestinian civilians, including 6 children and 2 women, in the West Bank. Four of them, including a woman, were arrested when Israeli settlers attacked Palestinian farmers and shepherds in Kherbet Um Hanitah, east of Yata, and the Israeli forces intervened to protect the settlers. Meanwhile, 12 civilians, including 6 children, were arrested in Jerusalem and its suburbs.



Measures to Make a Jewish Majority in occupied East Jerusalem



As part of the house demolitions, on 23 November 2017, Israeli Municipality bulldozers demolished a house belonging to the family of ‘Issam al-Rajabi in al-Ashaqriyah neighbourhood in Beit Hanina, north of occupied East Jerusalem, rendering its residents homeless during the cold and rainy weather. The above-mentioned civilian said that he built his house in 2010 on an area of 140 square meters, and the Israeli Municipality fined him with 20,000 shekels in instalments. He paid 43 instalments but there are 7 instalments left. During this year, he added a 30-square-meter structure to the house, but the Municipality notified him that they will demolish it. On the abovementioned date, the house sheltering a family of 10 members along with the additional structures was demolished.



On 25 November 2017, Israeli forces forced Jamal Abu Teir from Um Touba, southeast of occupied East Jerusalem, to self-demolish his house, upon a decision by the Israeli Municipality. Abu Teir said that he self-demolished his house after evacuating it to avoid paying the very high demolition expenses for the municipality. The house was built on an area of 40 square meters and used to shelter a family of 5 members.



As part of the strangulation policy against the residents of Beit Xa village, northwest of occupied Jerusalem, the Israeli forces confiscated 8 vehicles belonging to civilians from the village. Eyewitnesses said that the Israeli forces aimed at confining the besieged village residents and restricting their movement. They added that the Israeli forces stationed at the sole entrance to the village spare no effort to maltreat the residents, particularly young men, while crossing the checkpoint. The Israeli forces have recently prevented the entry of construction materials and fuels, particularly cooking gas, into the village except in coordination with the civil administration.



Settlement Activities and Settlers’ Attacks against Palestinian Civilians and their property:



As part of the demolition of houses and other civil facilities, on 27 November 2017, Israeli forces demolished a barrack built of tin plates in Beit ‘Aynoun area, east of Hebron. The 120-square-meter barrack belongs to Mohammed Meswadeh (45) under the retext of builing without a license and is used for ferrous metals.



As part of the Israeli settlers’ attacks against Palestinian civilians and their property, on 28 November 2017, Israeli settlers from “Mtsa Ya’ir” and “Yitir” settlements attacked Palestinian farmers and shepherds from Kherbet Um Hanitah adjacent to Mneizel village to the east of Yata, south of Hebron, while the latter were grazing their sheep and ploughing their lands to plant winter crops. The settlers attacked them with stones, batons and hands and when the farmers and shepherds tried to defend themselves, the Israeli soldiers attacked them without stopping the settlers and moving them away. The Israeli soldiers then arrested 4 civilians, including a mother of 5 children.
http://pchrgaza.org/en/?p=9893

That's just the last week, and there we see one case of 'settlers' or illegal squatters, acting as terrorists and attacking civilians with the aid of the state of Israel.

So why do you never comment on this routine Israeli violence on Palestinian civilians when it happens, way, way more?
Why are you a white knight for Muslims except when they are Palestinian where you accuse all of terrorism?
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Bullshit, sir, bullshit.

I note that your references have to dig back months to find examples of Palestinians defending their land from foreign invasion...
I love that you show you don't support Palestinian violence by defending Palestinian violence. There is absolutely NO justification for attacking random civilians just for walking or driving in the "wrong" neighbourhood.

You are a disgusting fraud with your claims of being pro-peace.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,477
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...
So why do you never comment on this routine Israeli violence on Palestinian civilians when it happens, way, way more?...
Actually Israeli civilians attacks Palestinian civilians far less often.

And I unreservedly condemn violent Israeli settlers. They should be locked up, just like the violent Palestinians who you continue to support.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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There is absolutely NO justification for attacking random civilians just for walking or driving in the "wrong" neighbourhood.

You are a disgusting fraud with your claims of being pro-peace.
Given Israel's ongoing colonization of Palestinian land every armed 'walk' in Palestine is not just random 'civilians' going for a stroll.
That's like saying there would be no justification for you getting mad at buttplug should he decide to stroll through your kitchen armed with a hand grenade.

You are a disgusting supporter of colonization and apartheid.
If you truly supported the two state solution you would support Palestinian's holding on to their land.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Given Israel's ongoing colonization of Palestinian land every armed 'walk' in Palestine is not just random 'civilians' going for a stroll....
And there you go calling Jewish civilians valid targets again. Disgusting. It was a bunch of kids going for a nature hike.

I have absolutely no problem condemning Israeli settlers who throw rocks or firebombs at Palestinians civilians but your lack of morals has you supporting Palestinians who do the same to Israeli civilians.

p.s. I don't defend the shooting. I'm glad the Israeli authorities are investigating him for homicide. When the kids he was with were attacked with rocks he should have just called the police. All that I point out is that as usual, the incident started with Palestinian violence, violence you continue to justify.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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And here we have absolute proof you support attacks on Israeli civilians. Sickening.
Bullshit, just answer the question:

Were those Israeli citizens walking in Israel or in a foreign country, namely Palestine?
Still can't answer any questions about the borders of Israel, eh?
 
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