College teachers strike and the Wynne Government.

[JohnLarue]

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/battle-for-academic-control-ontario-colleges-strike
Battle for 'academic control' one of key issues in Ontario college strike

The union proposal:

The Ontario Public Service Employees Union’s latest offer included this clause on academic freedom:

“There shall be no infringement or abridgement of the academic freedom of any faculty member.” It said teachers must have “freedom in the conduct of teaching and the performance of duties; freedom in undertaking research and publishing or making public the results therof; and freedom from institutional censorship.”

The management position:

The College Employer Council issued a statement saying: “Faculty are critical to academic decision-making but they are not the exclusive voice. Our programs require consistent delivery to meet provincially mandated standards and the requirements of accreditation bodies and industry partners.” Colleges cannot accept “academic control by individual faculty members.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...strike-what-you-need-to-know/article36598186/

What are the main issues in the strike?

OPSEU wants to see a reduction in the percentage of part-time instructors so that they make up only half of all college faculty. Over the last decade, OPSEU says, the number of part-time teachers has grown by 40 per cent while the full-time positions have gone up by less than 20 per cent. In total, part-timers make up 70 per cent of all college teachers, OPSEU says.

The union also wants more job security. Instructors should be hired based on their seniority and experience, and new teachers should only be considered if current qualified instructors turn down an opening, the union says.

But the Employer Council counters that the union's demands would add $250-million to the costs of running the schools.

And once again it comes down to a public service union demanding more money from the taxpayer

 

[K Douglas]

My babe is currently on strike. She works at the local community college here in Windsor and hasn't had a paycheque in about two months, thus forcing me to support her even more than usual.

For once, you are right, oagre. She is on contract and makes a helluva lot less than a high school or even a secondary school teacher. I was offered a business course to teach a while back at the community college as a sessional instructor. For the one course, for one semester, the honourarium was $3000 and I had to mark my own papers.

As I understand it, you get about $50/hour to teach. Doesn't include time marking and preparing lessons. But these people aren't in the union so the union should not be striking because of that. The membership in the union is about 70% full time, 30% part time and they are compensated handsomely. This is a bullshit strike. Order them back. the NDP can't stop it.

 

[Frankfooter]

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/battle-for-academic-control-ontario-colleges-strike
Battle for 'academic control' one of key issues in Ontario college strike


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...strike-what-you-need-to-know/article36598186/


And once again it comes down to a public service union demanding more money from the taxpayer

Academic freedom is necessary so you don't get research along party lines only.
That's been standard forever.

The second quote nails it, the schools want to be able to hire teachers like greeters at wallmart. Part time wages only and no job security. That makes a two tiered system with massive pay differences between tenured and contract hired teachers. Contracted teachers presently make about a poverty level wage, which means if you're a teacher you'd rather teach at elementary and high school levels where you can make a decent salary. How does that make the education system better?

 

[mandrill]

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/battle-for-academic-control-ontario-colleges-strike
Battle for 'academic control' one of key issues in Ontario college strike


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...strike-what-you-need-to-know/article36598186/


And once again it comes down to a public service union demanding more money from the taxpayer

Actually, if you read your own links, it doesn't. It's about job security and in turn, quality of education. If it was about remuneration, the tenured staff would have grabbed the % increase offer and gotten back to work.

Again and again in this thread, you guys just don't read your own links, including the parts you cut and paste.

 

[onthebottom]

As I understand it, you get about $50/hour to teach. Doesn't include time marking and preparing lessons. But these people aren't in the union so the union should not be striking because of that. The membership in the union is about 70% full time, 30% part time and they are compensated handsomely. This is a bullshit strike. Order them back. the NDP can't stop it.

Do you have sources on the 70/30split?

 

[mandrill]

That the bloat in administrative positions and never ending and declining productive tenured staff are necessitating the use of adjunct staff. Those geezer professors are taking up slots that these younger teachers should be moving into.

The strike isn't about administrative jobs. Those people are management, not union and most teachers think that the admin / teacher ratio is too high already and would agree with you.

Re "aging teaching staff". These people aren't geezers. They're engaged in intellectual work, so it's like saying you want to fire a 65 year old judge because you have a 22 year old who will do the job better. It's not the case. Those people earned their seniority and are legally entitled to it. You want them gone? Offer my sister a few hundred thousand $$$ as a buy-out and she'll wave good bye and stay home with her cats and watch CNN. Why would she leave otherwise?

The REAL problem is that governments are hiring a smaller and smaller % of full time staff and when tenured staff do retire, they're replaced by part-timers who get paid $30,000 for a PH.D level position and who have sfa job security. You know any people in any other line of work who will work for $30,000 with a PH.D???

 

[onthebottom]

The strike isn't about administrative jobs. Those people are management, not union and most teachers think that the admin / teacher ratio is too high already and would agree with you.

Re "aging teaching staff". These people aren't geezers. They're engaged in intellectual work, so it's like saying you want to fire a 65 year old judge because you have a 22 year old who will do the job better. It's not the case. Those people earned their seniority and are legally entitled to it. You want them gone? Offer my sister a few hundred thousand $$$ as a buy-out and she'll wave good bye and stay home with her cats and watch CNN. Why would she leave otherwise?

The REAL problem is that governments are hiring a smaller and smaller % of full time staff and when tenured staff do retire, they're replaced by part-timers who get paid $30,000 for a PH.D level position and who have sfa job security. You know any people in any other line of work who will work for $30,000 with a PH.D???

They are likely teaching introductory or 100 level courses, you don’t need a Phd to teach freshman comp or calc. In my day many of those courses were taugh by TAs with very cursory oversight by a professor. They are also free to work somewhere else with their PhD.

 

[JohnLarue]

Actually, if you read your own links, it doesn't. It's about job security and in turn, quality of education. If it was about remuneration, the tenured staff would have grabbed the % increase offer and gotten back to work.

Again and again in this thread, you guys just don't read your own links, including the parts you cut and paste.

your interpretation is not gospel and it is only your opinion so do not lecture me about reading the links
From the Globe and Mail

the union's demands would add $250-million to the costs of running the schools.

And once again it comes down to a public service union demanding more money from the taxpayer

it is very straightforward, the union is demanding changes which would cost an additional $250 MM annually, the taxpayer being the source of that $250 MM

BTW job security does not guarantee quality of education
it only ensures entitlement

 

[JohnLarue]

Academic freedom is necessary so you don't get research along party lines only.
That's been standard forever.

Canadian colleges do not generate a lot of ground breaking research
The universities do produce some worth while researchry

The second quote nails it, the schools want to be able to hire teachers like greeters at wallmart. Part time wages only and no job security. That makes a two tiered system with massive pay differences between tenured and contract hired teachers. Contracted teachers presently make about a poverty level wage, which means if you're a teacher you'd rather teach at elementary and high school levels where you can make a decent salary. How does that make the education system better?

Ha Ha too funny
The teachers union gouges the taxpayer and are your rational for the College Profs to do the same thing?

Perhaps if the teachers union did not grab the lions share of the education budget there might be some resources available for contract professors.

you leftie loonie's just view the government treasury as a bottomless pit of money.
Its time you realise how hard the taxpayer works in order to replenish those coffers
Canadians pay 50% of their income to taxes in one form or another and you want more???

 

[mandrill]

Thank you, John, for the Union Haters 10 cent version of the issue.

No point in me responding to your posts.

 

[Frankfooter]

it is very straightforward, the union is demanding changes which would cost an additional $250 MM annually, the taxpayer being the source of that $250 MM

BTW job security does not guarantee quality of education
it only ensures entitlement

Universities and colleges posted a $200 million surplus last year.
The money is there.

 

[mandrill]

Well, that is not what was said. They could have launched before tuition was paid. This is why you now have a class action lawsuit.

They knew they were screwing over the students. Scumbag move.

But if they struck before the semester began, wouldn't the govt simply have terminated their contracts and hired replacement workers?

3/4 of the instructors are part-time temporary with no job security.

It's a public service sector dispute. I hate them too and used to cringe each time the TTC or the posties went out and cheer when they were ordered back. But this time, the strikers seem to have some real complaints. And each time a public service union strikes, the public inevitably gets hurt. There is no way around that.

 

[onthebottom]

Thank you, John, for the Union Haters 10 cent version of the issue.

No point in me responding to your posts.

I get the need for private sector unions to balance corporate power. Public sector unions are an abuse of power, especially when they participate politically with the same people they are negotiating with. The taxpayers would be much better off if we did away with public sector collective bargaining, especially for the professional roles.

 

[Frankfooter]

I get the need for private sector unions to balance corporate power. Public sector unions are an abuse of power, especially when they participate politically with the same people they are negotiating with. The taxpayers would be much better off if we did away with public sector collective bargaining, especially for the professional roles.

Probably the biggest economic issue of our times is the continuing increase in the divide between rich and poor, notable in the killing of middle class jobs and destruction of pensions and benefits. Unions, including public sector unions, are key to restoring the middle class.

The teacher strike epitomizes this issue. Being a university prof should be a middle class to upper middle class job, not the poverty level work it is now.

 

[mandrill]

I get the need for private sector unions to balance corporate power. Public sector unions are an abuse of power, especially when they participate politically with the same people they are negotiating with. The taxpayers would be much better off if we did away with public sector collective bargaining, especially for the professional roles.

The "taxpayers" would be much better off if "we" paid everybody in the public sector $2.00 an hour - except of course when some of the taxpayers have that public service job and realize that they now can't pay the rent. Unfortunately for the "taxpayers", enough of their number have the silly idea that it is unfair to force a PH.D to work for $30,000 per year and be in fear of being replaced at the end of each semester. And that's why the Wynn government isn't legislating a return to work without NDP support, despite having the votes in the legislature to do so.

The current strike is pretty clear proof how necessary public sector unions are. These people would be fucked without their union - all so that you can save $20.00 on your tax bill at the end of the year and spend it on a hand job.

 

[onthebottom]

Probably the biggest economic issue of our times is the continuing increase in the divide between rich and poor, notable in the killing of middle class jobs and destruction of pensions and benefits. Unions, including public sector unions, are key to restoring the middle class.

The teacher strike epitomizes this issue. Being a university prof should be a middle class to upper middle class job, not the poverty level work it is now.

Show me that university professors are “poverty level”, otherwise this is just nonsense. Temporary staff teaching introductory classes part time is not upper middle class work, more like grad student level.

My comments on public sector unions stands.

 

[onthebottom]

The "taxpayers" would be much better off if "we" paid everybody in the public sector $2.00 an hour - except of course when some of the taxpayers have that public service job and realize that they now can't pay the rent. Unfortunately for the "taxpayers", enough of their number have the silly idea that it is unfair to force a PH.D to work for $30,000 per year and be in fear of being replaced at the end of each semester. And that's why the Wynn government isn't legislating a return to work without NDP support, despite having the votes in the legislature to do so.

The current strike is pretty clear proof how necessary public sector unions are. These people would be fucked without their union - all so that you can save $20.00 on your tax bill at the end of the year and spend it on a hand job.

A PhD doesn’t guarantee anyone anything. What courses are they teaching, why don’t they find better paying jobs.....

 

[canada-man]

Academic freedom is necessary so you don't get research along party lines only.
That's been standard forever.

The second quote nails it, the schools want to be able to hire teachers like greeters at wallmart. Part time wages only and no job security. That makes a two tiered system with massive pay differences between tenured and contract hired teachers. Contracted teachers presently make about a poverty level wage, which means if you're a teacher you'd rather teach at elementary and high school levels where you can make a decent salary. How does that make the education system better?

Ontario Colleges are not research institutions.

 

[Frankfooter]

Ontario Colleges are not research institutions.

Universities are.

 

[JohnLarue]

Thank you, John, for the Union Haters 10 cent version of the issue.

No point in me responding to your posts.

I guess if you do not like to hear the truth, then it is best if you do not respond
Call me a union hater if you want, however I can not warm up to anyone who places their interest ahead of the students