Another Mass Shooting in the U.S.

[Occasionally]

What a dysfunctional country - how's that right to bear arms working out for ya !!!!

No kidding.

Without even doing any kind of math using gun charts, I bet that if you added up the populations of western countries like Canada + UK + France + ...... to equal USA's 300+ million people.... I bet the US still probably has about 10x (or more) the number of shooting issues, killings etc....

And you don't even have to include Japan's 100 million people with miniscule gun violence.

It's amazing that pro-gun people can't see that.

 

[LT56]

No kidding.

Without even doing any kind of math using gun charts, I bet that if you added up the populations of western countries like Canada + UK + France + ...... to equal USA's 300+ million people.... I bet the US still probably has about 10x (or more) the number of shooting issues, killings etc....

And you don't even have to include Japan's 100 million people with miniscule gun violence.

It's amazing that pro-gun people can't see that.

They are Trump supporters.

Nuff said.

 

[The LoLRus]

#revokethe2ndamendment

You need 75% of the States to go along with that, and that's never going to happen

 

[basketcase]

Depending upon the state there already is significant gun control legislation. ...

And the weakness is that anyone can just drive over a line. Add in private sellers, the dirty gun dealers who legislation and funding prevents the ATF from following up on and guns are too easy to get.

Canada's laws seem to work pretty well; must be screened and licensed before getting a gun including a mandatory gun safely course.

 

[basketcase]

If only they hadn't taken God out of public schools.............

At least they still have fossil fuels to stop rape.

 

[managee]

why don't you do research instead of posting smart ass comments.


the Lass vegas Shooter and others before him were on psych meds

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usne...dock-another-mass-shooter-on-psychiatric-meds

According to data obtained from the Nevada Prescription Monitoring Program by the Las Vegas Review-Journal, this past summer Paddock had been prescribed an anti-anxiety medication called Diazepam (originally marketed as Valium), side effects of which include aggressive and psychotic behavior, hostility, confusion, decreased inhibitions, and suicidal thoughts.

"If somebody has an underlying aggression problem and you sedate them with that drug, they can become aggressive," Dr. Mel Pohl of the Las Vegas Recovery Center told the paper. “It can disinhibit an underlying emotional state. … It is much like what happens when you give alcohol to some people … they become aggressive instead of going to sleep.”

Whether Diazepam is what motivated Paddock to go on a killing spree is unclear, as evidence seems to indicate that the mass shooting was meticulously planned and carefully calculated. According to Dr. Michael First of Columbia University, an expert on benzodiazepines, while drugs such as Diazepam can cause aggressive behavior, the extent to which Paddock planned his actions indicates there were deeper issues behind his decision to commit the worst mass shooting spree in American history.

But according to a 2015 World Psychiatry study of 960 Finnish adults and teens convicted of homicide, the odds of killing are indeed higher in individuals on benzodiazepines.

And Paddock is not the first mass shooter to have been under the influence of psychiatric drugs. The Citizens Commission on Human Rights International notes that at least 36 school shootings have been committed by those either taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs. These shootings have resulted in the deaths of 80 people.

Psychotropic drugs and homicide: A prospective cohort study from Finland

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wps.20220/full

I’d hope that few outside the antivax community would consider The New American a reliable source for information, particularly when it comes to medication.

That article was especially misleading. Kirstie Alley and you might disagree. Fox News: Scientologist Kirstie Alley - Psychiatric Drugs Common Denominator in Mass Shootings

If he was indeed on benzos, you’d have to be on “psychotic drugs” yourself to believe they’d directly contribute to that crime, beyond making the crime slightly easier to commit if he was nervous at all about it.

Ever heard of “chill pills”? Diazepam is just the generic name for Valium.

https://www.drugs.com/article/benzodiazepines.html

 

[rafterman]

This all too familiar tragedy will follow a well worn arc. Details inasmuch as possible will emerge over the next few days, there will be much hand wringing and teeth gnashing in certain quarters and then the story will recede from the headlines as have all the others.

 

[Insidious Von]

canada-man's posts are useful to me, I'm sleeping better. Thanks CM.

There is a huge gulf between someone who suffers depression/anxiety and a psychopath. It's like saying a skateboarder can win a F1 race. There isn't any drug that can control a psychopath, they are not hot-wired by emotion.

 

[Occasionally]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/devin-patrick-kelley-idd-as-sutherland-springs-church-killer

Devin Patrick Kelley ID’d as Sutherland Springs Church Killer

Devin Patrick Kelley has been identified as the gunman who killed at least 24 people at a church in Texas, a U.S. official tells The Daily Beast. Kelley, 26, was a resident of New Braunfels, a suburb of San Antonio, according to public records. On a now-deleted Facebook account, Kelley displayed an assault rifle.

Kelley was married and Kelley's mother-in-law listed a P.O. box in Sutherland Springs as a mailing address. San Antonio police reportedly raided Kelley's home on Sunday evening. A LinkedIn account appearing to belong to Kelley describes him as serving in the U.S. Air Force from his 2009 high-school graduation until 2013, after which he briefly taught at a summer Bible school.

 

[Occasionally]

https://heavy.com/news/2017/11/devin-kelley-p-sutherland-springs-church-shooter-patrick-kelly/

Devin Kelley: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

Too long to post, click link.

 

[K Douglas]

I've been to gunshows and even public ranges in the U.S. One easy "control" (quotation marks because it's not really a control, just a hurdle) is to eliminate the gunshow loophole. Another easy "control" is to require background checks in every jurisdiction. Lastly, another control is to require simple education on safe gun handling. The last isn't to prevent mass shooting, it's to prevent accidental shootings. Anybody who has ever been to a gunshow in the U.S. or even spent time at a public range (even private ranges have their problems - just ask any range safety officer) will see many examples of simple cluelessness in the safe handling of a weapon. And that's for gun owners who bother to go to a range. Many (maybe the majority) of gun owners and hunters think they can just pull out their weapon and be proficient in it with no practice time. Not knowing simple range etiquette and safety (eg: never muzzle sweeping, not knowing how to safe your weapon, not knowing how to maintain your weapon) - all of this could be covered in a simple required course. NONE of these requirements would take away any second amendment rights.

I would agree with background checks for all purchasers of firearms. I'd also mandate a firearms certification course. If we have to have licenses to drive then it's a no brainer we should have licenses to handle firearms.

 

[K Douglas]

There is no meaningful gun control in the United States.

To says that Illinois has "strict gun control " is laughable. Compare Illinois to Canada and Illinois is a free for all.

I think you are making that statement out of ignorance. Think again.

 

[canada-man]

an armed usher stopped him

 

[K Douglas]

A big reason is that the pro-gun lobby, and the courts, have eroded local and state gun laws in IL. Additionally, IL is surrounded by pro-gun lobby "red states" that support the weakening of gun laws in those states, making it easier to transport guns across state lines. As the attached Chicago Tribune article mentions, NYC has more stringent gun laws, and a declining homicide rate to go along with those laws. I suspect socioeconomic reasons play a large role as well in explaining Chicago's gun violence.

And while the gun violence in Chicago is frightening, there are many other cities in America with more dangerous gun violence than Chicago.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...l-chicago-dahleen-glanton-20171003-story.html

Sheer liberal lunacy. The VAST majority of guns used in crimes in Chicago and other cities in Illinois are illegal. Gang bangers don't legally purchase firearms. They steal them. They are smuggled in from Mexico and Central America.

 

[Aardvark154]

Tragic the worst set of murders at a church/synagogue/mosque in U.S. history. It however, does not at least at this point appear to be racial. Devin Kelly (the apparent shooter) seemingly has ties to Sutherland Springs, and even before this was not clean cut, having been Court Martialed and Dishonorably Discharged by the U.S. Air Force about three years ago.

 

[Aardvark154]

This sort of thing does seem to me to be related to the decline of organized religion in the Western world. How any believer of whatever faith could murder other believers at prayer is incomprehensible.

 

[mandrill]

Devin Patrick Kelley has been identified as the gunman who killed at least 24 people at a church in Texas, a U.S. official tells The Daily Beast. Kelley, 26, was a resident of New Braunfels, a suburb of San Antonio, according to public records. On a now-deleted Facebook account, Kelley displayed an assault rifle.

M-4 assault carbine with all the bells and whistles. Someone who knows more about modern military firearms can tell me if he has a telescopic site and a red lazer-dot siting aid?

No info on whether it was fired on full auto - or a facsimile with a bump stock.

 

[danmand]

This sort of thing does seem to me to be related to the decline of organized religion in the Western world. How any believer of whatever faith could murder other believers at prayer is incomprehensible.

Was he one of the Mexican rapists? or a muslim? or a recent immigrant?

 

[mandrill]

Tragic the worst set of murders at a church/synagogue/mosque in U.S. history. It however, does not at least at this point appear to be racial. Devin Kelly (the apparent shooter) seemingly has ties to Sutherland Springs, and even before this was not clean cut, having been Court Martialed and Dishonorably Discharged by the U.S. Air Force about three years ago.

White redneck murdering a Black congregation. But so far, you're correct. No evidence of racist motives.

 

[essguy_]

It appears that the shooter was likely killed by a local resident who engaged the shooter at the church, causing the shooter to flee. Of course, this will play into the debate on gun control because the obvious counter to gun control is to arm yourself for protection. The frustrating thing, it's such a hyper-partisan issue that absolutely no progress will be made. Eg: The NRA promotes gun safety. But have a Democrat suggest that gun safety courses be mandatory and everybody flips out. Same with universal background checks. There are some people who should not be able to buy a gun (at least as easily as it currently is). But suggest mandatory background checks or eliminating the gun-show loophole and again, everybody flips out. You have to ask yourself why any reasonable gun owner would be against mandatory background checks (i.e. eliminating the gun-show loophole). There's no logical reason to be against it and no 2nd amendment reasoning either.